Vodafone follows EE in bringing back mobile roaming charges in Europe

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• Trevor says:

  9 Aug9 August 12:43

  Oh dear. How much more Brexit ‘winning’ can we take?

  • r* says:

    9 Aug9 August 12:55

    The ‘winning’ will continue until everyone has a uk flag and a picture of the queen on the wall behind them ;/

    • LS says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:05

      HMG spent over £163k on flags last two years. Bargain,

      • ChrisC says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:16

        How many made here though??

  • the_real_a says:

    9 Aug9 August 13:28

    Depends in your lot in life. Two of my tenants have moved off long term Universal Credit into full time work, they tell me they have never had so many hours with overtime. Its now worth them working more than the 16 hours they used to. Locally companies are scrambling for staff after the EU agencies staff dried up most now paying above minimum wage (especially for unsocial hours shifts).

    • XYZ_ZYX says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:50

      Ah, the joys of the rentier class. Not only you get to suck value out of the economy, you also get to pontificate about your formerly lazy tenants now working more hours 🙂

      • David says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:35

        +1 Well said

      • Lord Doncaster says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:38

        Yet you were fine with the EU pushing its freedom of movement agenda which leaves poorer EU nations with fewer workers?

    • LS says:

      9 Aug9 August 14:06

      Yes – this genuinely should be a benefit. Flooding labour market with cheap labour, meant there was a race to the bottom in terms of pay and conditions especially in the casual market. Now this has dried up, these should improve again. Downside is that the cost to the consumer for these services will increase. But I would argue they should never have been this cheap in the first place.
      Sadly it took leaving the EU to curb some of these labour abuses – it is only a start and we haven’t sorted it by any means. But the drive by businesses to get lowest labour possible (even if you cant afford to live off it) is one of the main reasons people voted to leave. It was unreasonable to expect people to settle at a level below which you can live reasonably.

      • Paul Pogba says:

        9 Aug9 August 14:12

        I’ve commented previously that people at the upper end of the income distribution have no idea what mass migration has done to people at the lower end. Its why they’re still oblivous to why people (not me) voted for Brexit.

        If the European Commission were as smart as they think they are they would have seen this brewing and done something about it instead it was full steam ahead towards EUtopia.

        • W says:

          9 Aug9 August 18:09

          Not much sense in relitigating this here, but every other country put migration caps in place for the initial years when the Eastern European countries joined, to avoid this shock. Everyone except for the UK government.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 19:09

          W – Blair chose not to implement any limits.

        • Tariq says:

          9 Aug9 August 21:40

          It seems to me that the root cause was to allow third/second world countries to join the EU in the first place!

        • bazza says:

          9 Aug9 August 22:45

          This is the fact. Its a simple as that but they never listened before and they are not listening now.

          Its all that Red Busses fault and all the racist White English people who voted against all the White European people – who of course are ALL highly educated doctors doing the minimum wage jobs that the Brits refuse to do. Who work 100s of hours a week and never go sick!

          Even dopey Dave went to the EU and asked them for some changes but no no no can’t be done they said!

      • Aston100 says:

        9 Aug9 August 14:14

        “But the drive by businesses to get lowest labour possible (even if you cant afford to live off it) is one of the main reasons people voted to leave.”

        One of the MAIN reasons???

        • Paul Pogba says:

          9 Aug9 August 14:27

          “Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”

          https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

      • Rob says:

        9 Aug9 August 14:51

        This is economically wrong. If a farmer hired an EU lettuce picker, it means they don’t need a U.K. lettuce picker. This allows a U.K. citizen to get a better job more suited to their skills and qualifications.

        You might as well argue to bring back manned petrol pumps, manned check outs at supermarkets etc.

        • Save East Coast Rewards says:

          9 Aug9 August 15:14

          In Italy you still get petrol pump attendants although there is the option to do self service too! Personally I don’t see the point of that

        • the_real_a says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:19

          That does ignore externalities. Most workers do not pay their full share of taxes until they are earning over £30k. Then we need to factor in externalities in inflation to rents, house prices and the cost of providing NEW public services (which is way higher than the average cost of providing current services) and cost to tax payers in tax credits which at minimum wage essentially means the tax payer was subsidising every EU worker on minimum wage.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:26

          So Rob, you didn’t have any qualms over the UK having to positively discriminate one sort of foreigner (those from the EU) over another (the rest of the world) when the UK was in the EU?

          I have no idea why those who wanted to remain in the EU were so proud of pushing this discrimination. Far fairer to give equal opportunities irrespective of your passport.

        • BuildBackBetter says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:52

          Extending that logic, why are you not hiring EU workers, Rob? You are blocking the career of Rhys and Anika who can do better jobs!

        • Rob says:

          9 Aug9 August 17:06

          Anika is German, Sinead is half Irish, Rhys is half German. It’s not exactly an unskilled job keeping this show on the road either 🙂

        • Char Char says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:59

          “Most workers do not pay their full share of taxes until they are earning over £30k. ”

          Care to explain this broad statement?

        • the_real_a says:

          9 Aug9 August 17:13

          Char Char – public spending is about £10k per person in England. That equates at £30k salary to about £6k in direct taxation and approx £4k in indirect taxation. The government preferred a figure of £32k a year for immigration applicants the point at which they contributed more than they consumed (on an average basis)

        • Chris Heyes says:

          9 Aug9 August 19:48

          Rob lol like your comment at the end, I always go to manned check outs at supermarkets I Don’t mind queuing, but then again I’M in no hurry
          I even go inside my bank to draw money out, walk to town does me good, time for a Costa as well, mind we do have a beach to walk down to town
          Bring them all back, conductors on buses for me
          O The good all days bring them back, I did vote for Brexit lol, but only reason was because I could

        • Will says:

          9 Aug9 August 21:39

          But by that logic they don’t need an EU lettuce picker, an African at £1 an hour would be sufficient.

          Why should the farmer pay any supplement above the minimum possible to get the lettuce picked?

        • bazza says:

          9 Aug9 August 22:54

          But they needed a “U.K. lettuce picker” before he EU one was available.

          And if he is only qualified for be a U.K. lettuce picker?

          You are so far from the reality are you sure your not Ginger Harry from LA?

        • Rob says:

          10 Aug10 August 09:00

          Yes, they had a UK lettuce picker, representing a total waste of the money spent educating that person and indeed a total waste of the potential of that person.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          10 Aug10 August 11:49

          Sorry Rob but your argument is just bizarre. Why disparage a lettuce picker as not being a job suited for Brits…or are you saying that education standards among EU workers is so low that they are only capable of picking lettuce?

        • Rob says:

          10 Aug10 August 12:38

          If everyone in this country is not doing a job which maximises their skill set then the country is worse off. Let Bulgarians pick lettuce for 4x what they’d earn in Bulgaria and use the U.K. workforce more productively.

          The real gain in life quality in the last 100 years has been in educating people and getting them out of totally crap jobs. We are now reversing that.

        • J says:

          10 Aug10 August 14:48

          @bazza: If you are UK citizen who has been through the UK education system and are physically capable of picking lettuce, then yes, you are almost certainly qualified for better jobs just by the ability to speak (and hopefully read) English. If you can be a lettuce picker, then you can likely be a warehouse picker which is a slightly higher skilled job. Can you hold a conversation with someone? You might be suitable for customer service. Other skills apply for other jobs. There is no reason anyone born and educated in England should only be qualified for lettuce picking.

      • Mr. AC says:

        9 Aug9 August 15:38

        I never quite understood the mental gymnastics it takes to label employing folks who are so desperate for a job in the UK that they move away from their homeland, language, family etc to get hired, get by and send money back home as “labor abuses”.
        Or non-UK nationals and their lot in life is not to be taken into consideration at all?

        • Pb says:

          10 Aug10 August 07:19

          This also reflected very badly on our education system and approach to work , it was not just they could be paid less , it was that and they were better educated and not lazy .

        • Fenny says:

          10 Aug10 August 22:07

          I used to work with apprentices at a local college. The level of education of 50% of UK 16 yr olds is appalling. I had young people from EU countries who spoke better English than natives ( some might have a bit of an accent), whilst most UK students drop a foreign language for GCSE and those that do learn couldn’t gain the equivalent of a C grade in spoken and written work. The UK absolutely doesn’t value education in the way tbat EU countries do. Those that come here, even as lettuce pickers, have a better standard of achievement than 50% of UK 16 yr olds. If you have children, ask yourself if you would employ them. Then ask yourself if you would employ them in the first other language they learned in school. Do they have any actual skills and can they descibe those in another language.

          I did 2 years of French as part of my degree and learned other languages, but it took sustained working abroad to enable me to be able to converse in anything other than halting sentences. Don’t knock anyone who comes here on minimum wage to pick lettuces or care for our aging population, because the UK workforce don’t find those jobs attractive. I know who I’d rather employ to help my Dad on a daily basis.

      • Muzer says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:13

        Tories: Let’s not improve things like the minimum wage and workers’ rights
        Also Tories: Immigrants are after your jobs
        Public: *votes Brexit*
        Tories: *shocked pikachu face*

      • Char Char says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:57

        Perhaps you never heard of the minimum wage!

  • happeemonkee says:

    9 Aug9 August 16:08

    Agree!! Didn’t see this on the side of the bus!!

    • Lord Doncaster says:

      9 Aug9 August 16:28

      There’s a reason why no other trade bloc around the world has freedom of movement for workers on the scale the EU has

      • BuildBackBetter says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:54

        The problem was UK didn’t have freedom of movement, it gave freedom of residency with all benefits.
        While other European countries cleverly restricted benefits to immigrants.

        • Rui N. says:

          9 Aug9 August 17:12

          “So Rob, you didn’t have any qualms over the UK having to positively discriminate one sort of foreigner (those from the EU) over another (the rest of the world) when the UK was in the EU?”

          What nonsense is this? The UK was more than free to give everyone else in the world whatever rights it wanted. The EU has no role whatsoever in third country migration.
          And like BBB said, the UK was also free to have less restrictive EU migration.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 17:55

          Rui N

          You know full well that no country would give freedom of movement to the entire world. Totally unsustainable. The UK had to place even more restrictions on non-EU nationals because of the free for all caused by EU freedom of movement.

          Now, skilled graduates from non-EU countries have far fairer opportunities in the UK

        • Rui N. says:

          9 Aug9 August 18:40

          So, the UK wanted less graduates because more minimum wage Eastern Europeans were in the UK? Amazing logic. The EU is even responsible for the UK being stupid and apparently not wanting more graduates (yes, I know we even try to expel those that came here just for uni). Just brilliant.
          If my company is representative of anything, now instead of not only not getting third country graduates (which was not true, but let’s pretend it is), we also don’t get EU graduates, as they rather go to the Dutch or Spanish office (despite the salary offered there being lower that they would get if they came to the UK). Win win (for the Dutch and Spanish taxpayers, that is).

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 19:07

          Rui N

          If, according to you, Spanish and Dutch graduates no longer want to work in the UK, then that’s their loss.

          Remind me how many EU nationals chose to register to stay in the UK following Brexit? Well over a million wasn’t it?

          You do realise that EU nationals are now treated the same as all other followers. No special rules. No exceptions. Everyone treated equally irrespective of their passport. Not sure why you want discrimination?

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 19:07

          *as all other nationals

  • mradey says:

    10 Aug10 August 06:58

    Trevor (et al) – time to let it go. Get over it. It’s done.

  • harry b says:

    10 Aug10 August 13:14

    Brexit,the gift that keeps on giving.

• Michael C says:

  9 Aug9 August 12:48

  “At the time, the four major UK mobile networks said that they had no intention to introduce roaming charges which may have influenced the Government in deciding not to push for including it in law.”
  I did laugh at the time. Only an idiot would think they wouldn’t reintroduce them. I thought it might have taken a bit longer, but it was inevitable.

  • Alan says:

    10 Aug10 August 08:02

    Absolutely – as night follows day they were clearly going to bring these back!

• pigeon says:

  9 Aug9 August 12:59

  Does this apply to voxi too?

• LS says:

  9 Aug9 August 13:04

  Yeah! Taking back control!!

• Aston100 says:

  9 Aug9 August 13:15

  Do mobile network providers in European Union countries continue to provide free roaming in the UK?

  • ChrisBCN says:

    9 Aug9 August 14:03

    I can’t speak for all of them, but mine hasn’t announced any roaming charges.

  • Patrick says:

    9 Aug9 August 15:47

    Neither has mine (2 different French operators, up to 100GB roaming data)

  • riku says:

    9 Aug9 August 20:17

    Mine has started charging (Saunalahti in Finland) although data roaming in the UK is only 3.7e per Gb

• BP says:

  9 Aug9 August 13:15

  Can someone remind me what positive change has come from Brexit?

  • Babyg says:

    9 Aug9 August 13:21

    you (im a kiwi living in the uk) did do better with the vaccine rollout vs the EU thanks to brexit… but thats the only positive i can see…

    • Aston100 says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:24

      Perhaps, but I’m not seeing any tangible benefits of the rapid vaccine rollout.

      • Charlie says:

        9 Aug9 August 13:29

        You serious?

        There’s a reason why the UK is reaching herd immunity / low deaths with the Delta variant whereas Australia – where vaccine roll-out is poor – still has a lot of the country in lockdown.

        • Char Char says:

          9 Aug9 August 17:03

          Delta variant is clearly not as lethal regardless of vaccines. Australia’s lockdowns aren’t necessarily related to vaccine uptake at all they are on the other side of the world so makes no sense to do a comparison as they are at a different stage.

      • Harrier25 says:

        9 Aug9 August 13:34

        Especially now EU countries are starting to overtake us in vaccine roll out!

        • Babyg says:

          9 Aug9 August 13:44

          indeed some EU members have caught up… but I suspect the UK would be nowhere close to where it is now vaccine wise… but as a remainer myself I don’t see any other positives to brexit.. PS just renewed my vodafone contract, so i have 2 years of pre-brexit roaming.. and hopefully ill be residing in the EU within the next 12 moths 🙂

        • Andrew says:

          9 Aug9 August 15:43

          The huge majority of lives saved in the vaccine race came from vaccinating your 80 year olds first. Managing to vaccinate your 18 year olds first is entirely inconsequential by comparison.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:39

          You mean low-population island states such as Ireland and Malta?

        • Mike says:

          10 Aug10 August 03:54

          Actually, according to the CDC the delta variant maybe slightly more deadly than the original strain and alpha, but it a small variance. The reduction in deaths is coming from the vaccine.

      • Babyg says:

        9 Aug9 August 13:40

        look no further than my aussie friends… they havent had a rapid rollout…

    • E says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:34

      Not any more – https://www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/

      Malta, Iceland, Denmark and Belgium have all got higher rates of vaccination than the UK per 100 people of population.

    • J says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:42

      ‘None of these successes can be chalked up to Brexit. As the chief executive of the MHRA swiftly pointed out, Mr Hancock was wrong to say that the UK could approve the vaccine early because it was no longer subject to EU rules. The MHRA’s decision was taken in accordance with the relevant EU legislation, which allows member states to grant temporary authorisation for a medicinal product in response to the spread of infectious diseases (among others). This legislation still applies to the UK until the end of the transition period. Any EU member state could have used the same provision of the legislation to approve the vaccine. They decided not to for political and technical reasons, not legal ones.

      Similarly, the member states were in no way obliged to take part in the EU’s joint vaccine procurement scheme. The EU has very limited competences for public health under its founding treaties: it can take action only to “support, coordinate or supplement the actions of the Member States”. The EU member states in this case voluntarily decided to opt into the joint procurement scheme. If one or more of them had decided to follow the UK’s path and procure its own vaccines, no one would have stopped them.’

      The gaslighting the government has persisted with on the this issue seems to have fooled a lot of people…

      • Phil W says:

        9 Aug9 August 13:52

        This is the correct answer.

        • Babyg says:

          9 Aug9 August 14:03

          interesting…. i was blinded by the headlines around vaccine/brexit and didnt really understand this.. therefore i no longer have any positives for brexit (ok except for the more jobs for the non lazy brits)

      • Lord Doncaster says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:41

        Yet if the UK was still in the EU you can be sure any government would have faced such immense pressure that they would have had no option but to sign up to the EU’s scheme…

        • J says:

          9 Aug9 August 18:10

          So the Brexit benefit is that we got to do something that we could have done anyway, but might have chosen not? That’s quite the stretch mate…

    • Bill says:

      9 Aug9 August 14:00

      Vaccination purchasing was nothing to do with Brexit. Each nation could have done their own deals

      • Andrew says:

        9 Aug9 August 15:50

        The point is if we’d still have been in the EU it’s extremely unlikely that we’d have gone our own way vaccine-wise. There’s a reason every single EU country, initially at least, followed the pack. Even being out of the EU the headlines at the time accused our government of putting ideology ahead of lives when it was announced we were not joining the EU’s joint procurement scheme.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:41

          Exactly.

        • David says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:42

          What. The UK always loved going its own way as much as possible when in the EU. Of course it would have done the same vaccine approval!

        • Andrew says:

          9 Aug9 August 17:09

          @David Did we really though? We liked moaning about following EU rules but I can’t actually think of any circumstance where we didn’t tow the line. In fact we tended to stick to the rules far more closely than many other members (not imposing limits on immigration from new Eastern European members when many other countries did springs to mind).

        • David says:

          9 Aug9 August 21:13

          Maybe do a bit of reading around UK opt outs, Andrew.

        • Andrew says:

          10 Aug10 August 09:56

          @David Opt outs are following the rules! If you don’t like a rule you seek permission to not have to follow it. Although we had the most (just) several other countries have opt outs too.

          More significant is looking at infringements: circumstances where the commission had to take legal action against member states when they didn’t implement EU laws. The UK was very much mid-table for infringements and, significantly, the other large countries (Germany, France, Italy and Spain) all had more.

        • William Smith says:

          10 Aug10 August 17:03

          That’s why the UK had the euro and was in the Schengen area… Oh no wait we had influence and had opt outs. No reason to suggest that we would have opted out. Or even better, since the EMA was headquartered in London, ran the rollout on behalf of the EU.

    • marcw says:

      9 Aug9 August 14:18

      At the beginning, sure. But nowadays, some EU countries are as good or even better with the vaccine rollout (and with scientifically proved better vaccines :)). Plus, EU citizens can move freely around the EU with no testing or quarantine, as long as they have been fully vaccinated.

      • Rob says:

        9 Aug9 August 14:48

        There are 5 countries in the EU now ahead of us in vaccine roll out if I remember the chart that was published last week.

        • Brian says:

          10 Aug10 August 04:25

          “There are 5 countries in the EU now ahead of us in vaccine roll out if I remember the chart that was published last week.” – Rob, what a disingenuous comment. Unless I’m mistaken all 5 were allowing vaccinations of under 18s for a significant time period before the UK and some of them to 12 to 15 year olds. Comparisons should be specifically made against the accessible population or at the very least the difference should be clearly identified. The JCVI advice i based on science, and I expect the majority in the comments would jump on this government ignoring them.

    • ChrisC says:

      9 Aug9 August 16:20

      Brexit had nothing to do with it.

      If we were still in the EU we still had the right not to take part in any community purchasing schemes.

      • chabuddy geezy says:

        9 Aug9 August 17:55

        @Andrew the UK had various opt outs of EU rules. Two that spring to mind were joining the Euro and Schengen.

    • Lord Doncaster says:

      9 Aug9 August 16:30

      As a Kiwi you have a better chance of obtaining a work visa and employment in the UK, now that employers have no incentive to offer jobs to EU workers over other foreign nationals

    • Alex W says:

      9 Aug9 August 23:51

      @BabyG. Sorry but leaving the EU had nothing to do with fast tracking the vaccine.
      https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/
      UK has also paid a lot more per vaccine.

      • Lord Doncaster says:

        10 Aug10 August 11:53

        The EU was trying to drive down the cost of purchasing a vaccine that was being sold ‘at cost’ ….and then they tried to sue due to their own inept negotiations…

    • Alan says:

      10 Aug10 August 08:03

      Although Brexit didn’t affect that – we were still in transition at the time and could have done the same thing if we were still part of the EU.

    • Robin says:

      10 Aug10 August 08:48

      Dear Kiwi,

      Brexit has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the vaccine roll-out.

      Shocked that you’d believe our carpet-bagger Boris Johnson. Read – or listen to “Vaxxers” by Prof Sarah Gilbert & Dr Catherine Green to realise the vaccine was down to our scientists 99% and UK Gov 1% (and late).

      And if you think we’re doing better you should look at the increasing list of countries that are ahead of us

  • the_real_a says:

    9 Aug9 August 13:40

    Plenty of work available locally due to EU agency staff no longer being available. Higher hourly, plus more flexible shifts. Some nightshift premiums and unsocial hours premiums which i haven’t seen for 20 years. Certain demographics in certain sectors are certainly benefiting.

    • Babyg says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:45

      i do like to hear the positives.. this is very interesting to me.. anyways for the negative people, if you love the EU so much, just move there (i am)…

      • J says:

        9 Aug9 August 13:49

        Would be nice, but my freedom of movement was taken away and I’d struggle to get a visa…

        • Babyg says:

          9 Aug9 August 13:57

          visa arent that tricky… i got one for Portugal, its not super tricky…

        • Babyg says:

          9 Aug9 August 14:00

          PS you could have just moved to the EU before the end of last year and quite easily got the remain in the EU… i do agree the UK is less awesome not being part of the EU, but i also say that its not that hard to stay in the EU (eg move) if youre really that bothered, but most people just want to moan vs actually doing something about it…

        • J says:

          9 Aug9 August 14:02

          So you’re first comment is a full on lie about the vaccine rollout being a Brexit benefit, and your solution to the negative impacts is that people should have moved country last year rather than point them out. Nice.

        • Babyg says:

          9 Aug9 August 14:05

          it wasnt a lie.. but it seems i am possibly wrong… Im sorry you seem bitter about brexit, but its happened (sadly), i want to be part of the EU so i am moving… you should too… although i dont think you have the right attitude to do so…

        • J says:

          9 Aug9 August 14:06

          Actually, apologies for that post, not fair – wish I could delete. I wish Farage had moved rather than moaning about the state of Britain for 30 years 😀

        • Paul Pogba says:

          9 Aug9 August 14:18

          If you’re a British citizen you can live in the EU (Ireland) under the terms of the Common Travel Area.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          9 Aug9 August 16:43

          I can only imagine you’d struggle to get a visa if you are either unskilled or have a criminal record

        • J says:

          9 Aug9 August 18:06

          @Lord Doncaster: Yes, at least one of those applies to me.

        • Alan says:

          10 Aug10 August 08:04

          Indeed 🙁

    • Harrier25 says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:49

      If only they could fill all these vacancies with willing UK nationals, which unfortunately businesses are struggling to do!

      • the_real_a says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:11

        Equilibrium – they are struggling to fill these vacancies… at minimum wage on poor conditions. What i am seeing in my area is that wages are increasing and particularly flexibility in work hours are being enhanced to attract workers to those positions.

      • Lord Doncaster says:

        10 Aug10 August 01:06

        Harrier

        Simple economics. You offer jobs at the wage the labour market is prepared to pay. If they won’t do it for minimum wage then you raise the wage your company pays. It’s not rocket science.

        • Rob says:

          10 Aug10 August 08:52

          Which means the business goes bust or prices go up or it finally decides to invest in a machine and fires all its staff …..

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          10 Aug10 August 11:56

          Then either mechanisation occurs or prices go up, Rob. Inflation et al.

        • Rob says:

          10 Aug10 August 12:33

          And inflation is generally bad (unless you have debt) wrecking your savings and reducing what your salary can buy.

        • Fenny says:

          10 Aug10 August 22:16

          Have any of the applicants got the skills to do the job? I don’t agree with a national minimum wage, but I do agree that candidates should have the basic skills (and attitudes) for a job, or be paid as unskilled hourly paid labour.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          11 Aug11 August 14:39

          Inflation is a fact of life … Can’t keep plundering the labour market of poorer countries and worsening their brain drain.

    • Aston100 says:

      9 Aug9 August 13:57

      I would like to respond with the following image I found:
      https://eatliver.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/post-brexit.jpg

      • ken says:

        9 Aug9 August 14:51

        How many non white families do you remember from the Ladybird books ?

      • Paul Pogba says:

        9 Aug9 August 15:16

        You might be surprised but they’re not my regular reads :p but I seem to remember colourful characters in The Travel Adventure series.

        Anyway, my hasty (barely articulated) point was it looked like an ethnic slur on lazy white Brits (on Indigenous Peoples Day to boot). It could also be that non-white Brits were most disadvantaged by the relentless migration of (mainly) whites from Europe as hiring managers stuck with the “safer” more familiar white folk rather than experimenting with the talents of non-whites already here.

    • Aston100 says:

      9 Aug9 August 14:17

      “Plenty of work available locally due to EU agency staff no longer being available.”
      Mate, you seem to forget all these low paid foreign workers came in precisely because lazy Brits didn’t want to do some of the manual work.
      Now let’s see if said lazy Brits will rise to the challenge and go work in low paid labour intensive roles.

      We’ve come full circle.

      • the_real_a says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:07

        Back in 2000 every hotel was staffed by British people, factories were staffed by British people, shop workers were British. My mate was getting £15p/h in factory work back in 1998. Plenty of double pay shifts on nights / weekends. Lots of single mothers doing lunch time coverage for extra cash. Its just not true that British people didn’t want the jobs. It IS true that British people didn’t want certain jobs – to pick fruit or screw bottle tops on production lines for minimum wage when they could sit on a till for the same wage. Business got lazy, not investing in machines for soulless tasks or paying a wage that compensated for very unpleasant work.

        • chabuddy geezy says:

          9 Aug9 August 17:51

          In 2000 every hotel was not staffed by British people. A bit of an odd point to make up.

        • the_real_a says:

          9 Aug9 August 18:13

          Do correct us with the % mix of British citizens Vs those on a visa to specifically work in the hotel industry in 2000. Very few were non British citizens apart form those specifically excluded on cultural grounds such as Chinese / Indian restaurants and management exchange programs. Granted there were a few Aussie / Irish in London. Its simply untrue to suggest that British workers would not work in hotels or hospitality industry pre-EU. British citizens made up almost all workers outside london, and certainly the vast majority inside London.

        • chabuddy geezy says:

          9 Aug9 August 18:35

          @ the real A, I never suggested hotels had no British workers. You did state that “every hotel had British workers”. How do you know, did you visit every hotel in the UK? There are hotels that have been run by immigrants for decades. I also know EU nationals who worked in the hotel industry before that time under freedom of movement. Interesting that you decided to double down here…

        • Steve says:

          10 Aug10 August 05:55

          I mean less people to fill the jobs will raise salaries. No argument there and it probably is benefit of Brexit. One could argue that the UK could do some of it without leaving the EU tho.

          However, it will have negatives. Higher prices for all of us (even those two tenants), plus the costs of the Brexit, plus the companies might eventually seek the move the factories to the cheaper countries.

          What we miss with Brexit is a proper analysis. I am sure that’s what most people struggle with. The cost is massive. Is it worth it? Most of the economists think it’s not but I guess time will tell. But I am sure you wouldn’t do long term decisions in your business like this.

          This might really be just a short term situation. Companies didn’t have time to adapt, covid didn’t help as well. Furlough is not finished yet. I would be careful to give all the credit to Brexit yet.

      • Lord Doncaster says:

        9 Aug9 August 16:33

        Aston100

        Influx of cheap labour meant that wages were too low for those jobs to be palatable to UK workers.

        • Aston100 says:

          9 Aug9 August 19:46

          And why did the ‘cheap labour’ come over in the first place? To sit around idly twiddling their thumbs?
          No, they came because there were jobs available. Jobs that were beneath many lazy Brits.
          These foreign workers didn’t come over here and beat people up in order to steal their jobs – those jobs were available to begin with due to said lazy Brits.

          This isn’t a chicken and egg situation – the unfilled jobs were there before the cheap foreign labour rolled in.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          10 Aug10 August 01:12

          Aston100

          The unskilled EU nationals came here because British people weren’t willing to do the jobs for minimum wage. Simple as that. Companies had no incentive to raise wages because they had a cheap workforce to give jobs to.

        • Rob says:

          10 Aug10 August 08:49

          Let’s imagine I pay £50 per hour to get UK workers to pick fruit. As the U.K. has full employment, pretty much, all that happens is someone quits a skilled job to take my £50 to pick fruit.

          Let’s ignore the fact that having a trained mechanic picking fruit is a huge loss to society anyway.

          If mechanics start quitting jobs at £15 to pick fruit for £50 then mechanics salaries will jump to £50 and so on. Wage inflation leads to price inflation etc and everyone gets stuffed. We already have restaurants in London offering £1,000 signing on bonuses for restaurant staff.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          10 Aug10 August 12:03

          Rob

          Advertise picking fruit at £20 per hour and I bet the vacancies would be filled easily. Wouldn’t have ‘skilled mechanics’ doing it unless they wanted a taste of ‘the Good Life’. You purely take the view of an accountant at these aspects and don’t see the bigger picture.

          I know you have a vested interest in EU membership but granting Freedom of Movement to the expanded bloc of EU countries wasn’t going to end well.

        • Rob says:

          10 Aug10 August 12:31

          Given that London restaurants are offering £1,000 signing bonuses for staff I am not convinced …

        • J says:

          10 Aug10 August 14:37

          Remember seasonal pickers are absolute machines at picking fruit (and are the only ones who come close to hitting the harvest bonuses). So if you now pay a slower picker £20 an hour – and factor in, say, 4/5x to that cost in the production. Why would any supermarket buy your fruit/veg, when they can still import it from abroad tariff free where the labour costs are still low? At these wages UK agriculture is completely uncompetitive, not just for exports, but for the UK market too.

        • Lord Doncaster says:

          11 Aug11 August 14:37

          So those restaurants are offering £1000 signing ok bonuses but still paying minimum wage? Sounds a bizarre business strategy…

        • Rob says:

          11 Aug11 August 15:24

          No-one reputable pays minimum wage in Central London. There is something called the ‘London living wage’ which most places use, plus tips of course which are substantial in the sort of places offering £1000 to join.

      • Chris Heyes says:

        9 Aug9 August 20:58

        Aston100 I Do take your point but “lazy Brits” I disagree
        When I was younger and working 19 years at one place, 10 years another, 9 at another
        I was classed as Lazy because I refused to work any overtime at all and I NEVER DID.
        My attitude was I work to live not live to work, shame most if not all bosses respect that
        Believe me I was threated with all sorts including the sack during the later years (19 years 8 months)
        I feel very sorry for my Children and Grandchildren who are now “FORCED” to work overtime or leave
        As for low paid manual work I can assure you if they were paid enough people will do it
        I’M very proud of the fact that no one could force me to work overtime all my life, I enjoyed my work, my free time better
        But when I left never visited my places of work, or went to Christmas DOs
        The reason the last job was 19 years 8 months, was I left on my 50th Birthday
        (was told I’d get a gold watch if I stopped another 4 Months, No thanks lol)

  • Chris Heyes says:

    9 Aug9 August 20:05

    BP A shortage of workers. that’s the most positive change that’s come from Brexit
    long may it continue

  • bazza says:

    9 Aug9 August 23:45

    There will be less demand for council housing and shorter waiting list.

    Homeless population in London will decrease.

    • Lord Doncaster says:

      10 Aug10 August 01:09

      More criminal record checks too for EU nationals seeking work here as many will need to include their criminal record as part of the visa application.

    • chabuddy geezy says:

      10 Aug10 August 09:15

      Council waiting lists keep rising. Council houses still get sold off under right to buy and councils are heavily restricted from building more under Tory rules. Immigration will not stop post brexit either. Thinking that council house waiting lists will go down because of brexit is pure fantasy unfortunately.

  • Alex Sm says:

    10 Aug10 August 14:08

    Wizzair opened direct flights to Russia from the UK – something they couldn’t do before. This is the only positive thing I can think of!

• Peter Williamson says:

  9 Aug9 August 14:55

  I’ve been with Three for the past 8 years and have never paid for roaming and won’t need too post Brexit. If you enjoy roaming at no extra cost there are other options available to you, which were long there before Brexit was a thing…

  • Gavin says:

    9 Aug9 August 15:15

    Can’t be sure that Three will keep it free too into the future though. It depends on wholesale rates. Presumably in the years before Brexit when they allowed free roaming, wholesale rates were quite cheap because roaming charges had already begun to be strictly limited by the EU.

    • Gavin says:

      9 Aug9 August 15:16

      And of course during the years before free roaming become law in the EU, I meant to say.

  • Alan says:

    10 Aug10 August 08:06

    I’ve used 3 in the USA before (as well as Europe) – sadly data speeds seem to be stuck at 2G rates 🙁

• Super Secret Stuff says:

  9 Aug9 August 15:10

  Does this affect Voxi? Will be fuming if it does!

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