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Do you know BA First Class Avios redemptions are cheaper than mixed First / Club flights?

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One of the oddities about the launch of Reward Flight Saver to Club World (Business Class) and World Traveller Plus 18 months ago was that First Class redemptions were excluded.

There was no real logic behind this, and it led to some strange outcomes.

It is now cheaper to book a return First / First redemption than a First / Business or Business / First redemption!

First Class Avios redemptions are now cheaper than mixed First / Club flights!

Here is an example on the New York route.

First Class in both directions:

First Class Avios redemptions are cheaper than mixed First / Club flights

As there is no Reward Flight Saver in First Class (yet …..), you pay 160,000 Avios + £849 return in taxes and charges. You have options to use fewer Avios and more cash but these are unattractive.

First Class outbound, Club World (Business) inbound:

Take a look at what happens if you return in Club World instead of First on the same flight:

First Class Avios redemptions are cheaper than mixed First / Club flights

You now require 170,000 Avios + £777. You require an extra 10,000 Avios for swapping your First Class seat for Club Suite!

The taxes are, admittedly, £72 lower but I value 10,000 Avios at much more than £72.

It is worth noting that it doesn’t matter which leg is in First Class. Whether you do First out and Club back, or Club out and First back, you still see 170,000 Avios + £777.

I won’t try to explain exactly why this happens, but it is based on the pricing option that British Airways uses for the Club Suite leg.

Club World outbound, Club World inbound:

For comparison, a Business / Business flight would cost 180,000 Avios + £350 under the Reward Flight Saver structure.

You could also choose to pay 120,000 Avios + £850 which is the nearest alternative option in terms of taxes and charges to the examples above.

BA British Airways 2015 first class seat

First Class is now better value than it was

Let’s forget about mixing and matching First and Business, which we’ve decided you shouldn’t do if First / First is an option because the latter is cheaper.

Let’s focus on whether a return First Class flight is a better deal than a return Club World business class flight.

Looking at New York, if you do First / First then you pay 160,000 Avios + £849 on the dates I chose.

If you do Business / Business, you can pay 120,000 Avios + £850 or 180,000 Avios + £350.

Arguably, First Class redemptions are now better value than they were before long haul Reward Flight Saver launched. Comparing First / First to Business / Business for my example dates to New York:

  • flying First Class both ways only requires 40,000 more Avios in total (20,000 each way) if you choose the £850 taxes and charges option, or
  • flying First Class both ways only requires £499 of additional cash – and 20,000 FEWER Avios – than choosing the new headline Reward Flight Saver price for Club Suite (160,000 Avios + £849 for First return vs 180,000 Avios + £350 for Club return)

However you look at it, the difference between First / First and Business / Business is so low that you should give First / First very serious consideration if First Class seats are available.

And, of course, you absolutely MUST do First / First instead of First / Business is available because it will work out cheaper!

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Category

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Comments (63)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • Bernard says:
    10 Jun10 June 07:23

    Avios has become such a mess.
    Saving grace for BA is that F redemption is very hard to source so apart from GGL who can open up space it’s a technicality.. And about to get harder for silver and lower.

    • Rob says:
      10 Jun10 June 07:31

      Not hard at all at the moment. New York is available virtually every day in July, August, January, February and March.

    • PB884 says:
      10 Jun10 June 09:14

      “about the get harder”…what’s changing?

    • NorthernLass says:
      10 Jun10 June 09:31

      Random searching on SeatSpy is throwing up 2 x F to (or from) SAO, LAX, DXB, NYC, ATL, BOS, ORD, BAH, JED, SIN, BGI, then I got bored!

      • The Original Nick. says:
        10 Jun10 June 19:07

        What dates have you found the BGI seats? or even seats in J? I seem to be able to get my parents seats in J for the LHR – BGI but never the inbound.

  • NorthernLass says:
    10 Jun10 June 07:48

    You can always book outbound and inbound separately so you’re left with the standard “taxes”, if you can’t find F both ways. And of course starting outside the UK can save several £100.
    I’m doing my 4th F redemption in November, all to different destinations, never had an issue finding availability.

    • Paul says:
      10 Jun10 June 09:39

      Haven’t seen a F seat SCL SYD SIN LAX SFO for more that year, let alone 2, along with a myriad of other routes. Of course I am not up at 0000 or 0100 a year out from travel so maybe that’s my school boy error.

      My Avios strategy has been to use them one way generally with QR and other one world carriers. True, you can’t use 241, but that’s not what it once was. The days of 4 F LHR to SFO using 2 x 241 and around £800 in fees, in schools holidays, are long gone, and it’s just not worth the grief anymore.

      I think it’s telling that when this site launched it was all about maximising value from avios both in terms of collection and spend. It was awash with tips on how to collect Avios and where best to spend. Today it’s all about hotel points, flight reports and aircraft seats.

      That New York has F redemption seat availability can’t surprise anyone given 140+ seats each way per day. But for most of the year BA would rather overbook WT+ and roll forward a few upgrades or accommodate their staff long before they will take a booking for F redemptions.

      @Bernard said ” Avios has become such a mess” and that is something I can agree with.

      • Rob says:
        10 Jun10 June 09:59

        If you look back at a random sample of articles (and it’s easy to do, just type in headforpoints.com/2013/06 for eg to get June 2013) the big difference is the number of Tesco offers we covered. Strip those out and there isn’t much difference.

        There is a lot more Virgin coverage then there used to be, partly because I knew nothing about them when HfP started and partly because until 2015ish you were not refunded all your points when cancelling a redemption, making them hugely unattractive.

        I think there’s actually less coverage than historically on hotel deals. Remember IHG PointsBreaks? Or all the 10k bonus promos IHG ran? The £29 hotel cash sales IHG ran? There’s none of that these days.

        The flight and hotel reviews are (in 80% of cases) the other side of the ‘earn’ coin, showing how to burn points for the coolest new stuff. This was sorely lacking in the early years, mainly because I was operating on my own and with a baby at home which made it difficult to disappear for days.

        • PeteM says:
          10 Jun10 June 10:11

          I am quite happy with the variety of articles – thanks for all your work!

        • Donna says:
          10 Jun10 June 12:23

          I am so grateful for everything I learned from this site over the years. I would have probably not flown business believing that I could not afford it, or joined the hotel loyalty schemes in the days I was travelling with work to redeem points for my family holidays.

        • Paul says:
          10 Jun10 June 12:36

          I was not knocking the site simply pointing out it had changed, just as Avios availability and the costs of using them has changed.

        • Roy says:
          10 Jun10 June 20:44

          Also far fewer credit cards out there to cover. When the fintechs where new they got coverage.

          Kind of feels like there’s just lezz news to cover right now of a miles and points nature.

          • Rob says:
            10 Jun10 June 20:52

            This is job is easier since we lost 7 (!) BMI cards, 2 Emirates, Etihad, United and Lufthansa! None of those MBNA cards paid commission either 🙂

      • NorthernLass says:
        10 Jun10 June 11:19

        2 x F to LAX available July, August and Dec-Mar.

  • Wotsit says:
    10 Jun10 June 08:16

    “if First Class seats are available”. This seems to be a rarity unless I’m very much mistaken. Or are you just talking about New York flights?

    • Rob says:
      10 Jun10 June 08:57

      New York is very open. Not checked other routes recently.

      • Dev says:
        10 Jun10 June 17:22

        You sure about that?

        I booked JFK rtn but in CW with a 241 but cannot find a single F seat in July… been looking nearly every day for past few days (and just did again right now!)

        • Rob says:
          10 Jun10 June 19:54

          SeatSpy shows them, put it that way!

          • Dev says:
            11 Jun11 June 07:03

            Is BA website that crap?

          • Russell G says:
            11 Jun11 June 10:01

            If you’re looking for 2x F seats availability is a lot thinner. 6 dates out and 3 return in July right now. Confirmed they’re appearing on BA website too.

  • FS says:
    10 Jun10 June 08:30

    Are there plan afoot to limit First redemptions to Gold status members only? I fly with a family of 4, and always seem to find first availability across the globe with a bit of forward planning and Seat Spy. Whilst I appreciate that there’s other better First products out there, for me it’s head and shoulders about even BA club suite (because of the service and Concorde lounge, not the seat). I don’t know if the companion voucher would serve much value if I couldn’t redeem on First.

    • Rob says:
      10 Jun10 June 08:56

      There are rumours but frankly the F product is so weak that it would look silly, in my view.

      BA could open more availability for Gold, of course.

      There also isn’t a direct correlation between having Gold and having piles of Avios. There is a better correlation between having piles of credit card spend and having lots of Avios so why deter people from that?

      • TGLoyalty says:
        10 Jun10 June 09:12

        I think it would be a poor move as the whole point has to be look at the aspirational redemption you can do if you have enough Avios … takes the gamification aspect away

    • Paul says:
      10 Jun10 June 09:43

      I find that really hard to believe unless you have Jokers and upgrade for 1 or upgrade for 2 vouchers. Since the demise of the 747 4 redemption seats out of a cabin of 8 and at best 14 is unheard of. Well certainly not to the majority of travellers. But good luck to you if its is true.

      • TGLoyalty says:
        10 Jun10 June 09:55

        There were many days in June July August with 4 seats to AUH so it’s not impossible.

        • Paul says:
          10 Jun10 June 12:35

          I am not denying that there is availability but AUH in August is not on the bucket list, not at 45c

          • TGLoyalty says:
            10 Jun10 June 12:42

            Absolutely but it is 7ish hours closer to lots of great destinations in the east where you could get a very good Deal on Etihad or another airline.

      • PH says:
        10 Jun10 June 14:50

        Weren’t there a couple of 777s with 17F (!)

  • Mark says:
    10 Jun10 June 08:32

    A similar issue occurs if you try to combine BA (excepting F) with Iberia (or, presumably other airlines) in a redemption itinerary.

    The BA sector ceases to qualify for RFS and it charges you the maximum Avios level with full taxes and fees.

    As @NorthernLass points out you can book the legs separately to avoid the issue, unless you want to combine them in an Amex 2for1 booking.

    If you are booking as the flights are released at T-355 you can potentially get around it by booking the return at full Avios and calling afterwards for a 50% rebate.

    • NorthernLass says:
      10 Jun10 June 09:22

      You can, I have done this for my November trip. DUB-LHR-MEX in F on the outbound to save £600 in fees, MEX-LHR-MAN inbound (no F available), on a separate booking, BA then refunded the 50% avios.

      • chris says:
        10 Jun10 June 09:35

        If I understand correctly you made two separate bookings, so were briefly out say 150k additional Avios (2x MEX-MAN J), then you called to combine the two and BA refunded the second flight’s Avios?

        • NorthernLass says:
          10 Jun10 June 11:16

          Yes, but it was 200k avios – CW is 90/100k off-peak/peak. I timed it badly and just hit peak period by 2 days!

          • chris says:
            10 Jun10 June 12:12

            sorry I was too lazy to check the actual amount so made a rough guesstimate.

            that’s really interesting though, I wouldn’t have thought they’d have done that, surprisingly customer centric

        • Mark says:
          10 Jun10 June 18:33

          It doesn’t actually combine the bookings (so you can end up with double cancellation fees), just links them.

          We did the same with a BA outbound, Iberia return (Club World/Business), though I did get a bit of an inquisition when I phoned for the rebate as to why I’d booked Iberia back from Mexico City instead of BA. However if you book the outbound sector when the return is available they are likely to refuse the 50% rebate.

  • Lloyd says:
    10 Jun10 June 08:40

    Looked at a first redemption to New York for this summer, but for 2 of us, using a 2-4-1, 180,000 avios + £700 was more appealing than 160,000 avios + £1698!

    • Russell G says:
      11 Jun11 June 10:26

      Yeah, at 1p per avios that’s £200 more per person each way for F. I think whether you see this as reasonable value mostly comes down to the question of how much champagne you can drink! I’m still paying the extra, especially when flying LHR-JFK. I’d also pay the extra on routes with the old CW seat. As time goes on though, F value is getting worse (CCR / on board champagne cost reducing) whilst CW value is improving (as the new seat is rolled out). I see BA going one of two ways – either ditching F completely or improving it drastically. I don’t think the execs at BA have realised that this is their ultimate goal yet, but they gradually will do.

  • LittleNick says:
    10 Jun10 June 08:41

    ‘The taxes are, admittedly, £72 lower but I value 10,000 Avios at much more than £72.’
    Tax isn’t £72 lower, it’s the same, you mean BA surcharges.

    • TGLoyalty says:
      10 Jun10 June 09:13

      I’d say 10k and £72 is actually pretty marginal too. It’s £28 difference on my valuation but others use 0.8p so very little indeed.

      • LittleNick says:
        10 Jun10 June 09:32

        Agreed, but that was not the point I was making, Rob used the word taxes when it’s not tax that’s the difference in the monetary figure, it’s surcharges which would have been the better word to use

    • cin4 says:
      11 Jun11 June 01:21

      True. In addition, any comparison that ignores the actual difference paid including surcharges is completely meaningless and I don’t know why people keep doing this.

  • Clayton says:
    10 Jun10 June 09:17

    For our annual trip to Thailand this year we’ve struggled to find F but knew that would be the case as we held off on amex spend and only triggered in March for a end of October, late November back.

    However when I was pricing it up I found PVG, HKG, SIN, HND and a couple others I looked at as all costing no more than 10-22k RTN higher than J for that time of year.
    @littlenick I’m reasonably confident in saying that, post budget this year where an WIE act was pushed through to increase tax for J and F for ‘this will save the planet, surely’ reasons there is a quantifiable tax ( opposed to APD or Carrier Charges) difference between the two.

    Personally and whilst agreeing BA F isn’t exactly world beating if any of our seat spy alerts show F availablity then I’d still pay the tax difference and the £35pp change fee for such a small amount of Avios.
    I don’t remember ever seeing the miles difference between J and F even being so inconsequential

    • TGLoyalty says:
      10 Jun10 June 10:00

      APD was the tax changed in the budget and it’s the same for all premium cabins inc Premium Economy. There’s no other tax.

      Airport charges are a set amount for a set period of time ie financial year or calendar year depending on the airport but they aren’t taxes.

      YQ is all just carrier surcharges.

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