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Will Virgin Atlantic announce a new aircraft order at Farnborough?

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I spent last weekend in Las Vegas with Shai Weiss, CEO of Virgin Atlantic, and Sir Richard Branson (and some other people, not just the three of us!) to celebrate the airline’s upcoming 40th birthday on 22nd June.

As part of the celebrations I sat down with Shai to discuss what Virgin Atlantic is up to and where he sees the airline heading.

We covered a vast range of topics including their plans for profitability, a new terminal at Heathrow and Flying Club changes – look out for these stories later in the week – but in this article I want to look at what’s happening with Virgin Atlantic’s fleet.

Virgin Atlantic to announce a new aircraft order?

Over the past decade, but particularly since 2019, Virgin Atlantic has been on a huge fleet renewal program to replace older, less efficient aircraft with newer ones.

Since 2019 Virgin Atlantic has taken delivery of 12 A350s and 4 A330neos, whilst the pandemic accelerated the retirement of the gas-guzzling Boeing 747s (albeit not without a suitable send-off).

By the end of this year Virgin Atlantic will operate 45 aircraft, a number that will remain static “as we replace A330s with A330neos” according to Shai.

When the last neo of the current order arrives in 2028, Virgin Atlantic will have a fleet comprised entirely of new generation planes – or, to use one of Shai’s favourite phrases, “the youngest fleet in the sky.”

This will include 17 Boeing 787 Dreamliners, which at that point will be between 10 and 14 years old.

What will happen with the Dreamliner fleet?

10-14 years old is an interesting age for leased aircraft. Most initial leases are around 12 years long: after that, the airline and lessor need to renegotiate a renewal or part ways.

For Virgin Atlantic, that means an important juncture is quickly approaching:

“We’re considering what to do with our Dreamliners; we have 17 of them. We need to make a decision on whether to maintain or replace them. But they’re very good planes, other than the issues with the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines.”

What is interesting is that, over the past 40 years, Virgin Atlantic has gone from an all-Boeing fleet (with the first Boeing 747-100 in 1984) to an Airbus-heavy fleet of (eventually) 12 A350s and 14 A330neos.

With the 787s coming up on their leases, Virgin Atlantic has an opportunity to reconsider its long-term structure. Based on my conversation, it seems like a new aircraft order may be on the cards.

During our interview, Shai told me he was attending the Farnborough International Air Show this year. It is an opportunity for airlines to meet manufacturers and suppliers, but it is also where major aircraft orders are often announced.

Whilst some airline CEOs attend every year, others are more elusive; to my knowledge, Shai Weiss has never made a public appearance there, suggesting that he has something to announce.

I asked him if he is about to announce an aircraft order.

He takes a long, teasing pause. “Possibly.”

Virgin Atlantic could announce an order for more A330neos

Assuming I am right, and his appearance at Farnborough is no coincidence, then my money would be on a follow-on order for more A330neos. It is the only aircraft that makes sense as a Dreamliner replacement: the A350 and Boeing 777X are too large.

It would help that Virgin Atlantic still has options for eight further A330neos from its original order in 2019 – not enough to replace the entire Dreamliner fleet of 17 but enough to get them going.

I’ve also been told that Airbus has chartered one of Virgin’s A330neos for display at the show. It would make sense that Airbus would want to showcase a customer that already operates the aircraft and is keen for more.

The A330neo is the same size as the Dreamliner

So why is the A330neo a good Dreamliner replacement?

For a start, the capacity of Virgin Atlantic’s A330neos and 787s are almost identical, with a difference of just four seats overall:

Virgin configurationA330-900neoBoeing 787-9
Total seats262258
Upper Class3231
Premium4635
Economy184192

Interestingly, the A330neos have a slightly more premium configuration with an additional seat in Upper Class and 11 more seats in the ever-popular Premium cabin, at the expense of eight economy seats.

Additional neos would therefore be an almost like-for-like replacement for the Dreamliners, leaving overall capacity relatively unchanged.

Improved fleet commonality

For a small airline such as Virgin Atlantic – and it is comparatively small, with just 45 aircraft – operating three different types adds unnecessary additional complexity in terms of maintenance and pilot and crew training.

It is very easy for pilots and crew to operate on both A350s and A330s due to the commonality of the aircraft. For example, EASA in Europe issues what is called a ‘common type rating’ which requires only minimal additional training. According to Airbus:

A330 pilots are expected to qualify on the A350 in eight working days without mandated Full Flight Simulator time.” 

If Virgin Atlantic moved to an entirely Airbus operation with the A350 and A330neo it would enjoy additional flexibility in how and when it deploys staff, and reduce operational duplication.

Virgin Atlantic new fleet order?

The A330neo is likely to be cheaper

Aircraft list prices are hard to come by and are pretty meaningless anyway, as airlines typically negotiate steep discounts. However, it is likely that the A330neo is cheaper than a Boeing 787 due to a cheaper, mostly aluminium manufacturing process vs the 787’s more advanced carbon fibre construction.

The 787 is also heavily outselling the A330neo, putting pressure on Airbus to offer better pricing to stimulate demand and fill production slots.

In most cases, it would make sense to extend the lease of the Dreamliners. After all, it’s easier to keep existing aircraft than integrate new ones, especially as they already have cabins fitted out.

In this case, however, the lessors may be in a stronger position due to the high demand for the Dreamliner. There is also no financial benefit to keeping the Dreamliners as the interiors need replacing anyway: the 22-year old Upper Class seat is long overdue for an update. Shai told me that “if we were to retrofit the 787, it would probably be in the configuration of the A330-900neo.”

Since both the existing Dreamliner fleet and any incoming new aircraft need a new cabin, there is no benefit to sticking with the Dreamliner.

Conclusion

Whilst far from confirmed, it is clear that something must happen with Virgin Atlantic’s fleet soon. Shai’s attendance at Farnbough, his cagey answers and the suggestion that an announcement on the fleet “may come even earlier than late summer” suggest we will soon find out.


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Comments (73)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • BJ says:

    Did you get to blow out the candles on the cake too?

  • Inizii says:

    Maybe A321XLRs unless VA is committed to being all wide bodied fleet

    • Stuart says:

      Virgin Australia (VA) has a Boeing 737 Max fleet even for their longer distance routes. Oh, perhaps you’re meaning VS.

    • insider says:

      i think it’s better VS continue creaming off the big markets rather than try their hand at nicher markets with smaller aircraft – adds complexity, and is a waste of their LHR slots

    • the_real_a says:

      This would of course open the possibility of short haul feeder flights in the dead time on the tarmac. Air Lingus style.

    • Rhys says:

      Sadly no. I did ask them this directly but they denied it.

  • Jonathan says:

    Although the 789s are good planes as Shai was quoted as saying, but couldn’t give an answer on whether or not they’d replaced or they’d just carry on maintaining them, they’d definitely need to change the interior. There’s nothing more frustrating when you book into UC on a A339 / A35X and it gets changed over to a 789 (or the least mentioned VS aircraft; A333) leaving you stumped in a seat that’s not what you wanted.
    Unfortunately from what’s been mentioned above, Shai hasn’t made any promises about retrofitting the 789s, this is of course not at all cheap, but also leaves the aircraft unusable until the work is done, so whilst its frustrating that there’s no word on getting the interior up to date quickly, it’s understandable when everything is factored in, but as there’s no news on new aircraft order, we’ll just have to see what news comes up in future here on HfP…

    • Rhys says:

      Depends whether they keep them, that’s the point. Second article tomorrow.

      • Jonathan says:

        This is exactly the issue, and definitely not an easy decision to be made on VS’s part.

        When making decisions like this, they need to weigh up the cost of buying new aircraft vs the cost of keeping current aircraft and the necessary costs related to getting it as modern as possible, in terms of both fuel economy and interior

        All routes have ideal of aircraft to be using, like BA has decided that the A320/1 is good for the Amman, Cairo, Sharm el-Sheikh and Tel Aviv routes (when the latter returns), in an ideal world, this’s perfect, but BA don’t think there’s anything with a pathetic Euro economy seat for a flight that’s around 5 hours long… I for one won’t be using BA for those routes !

  • memesweeper says:

    Good analysis. Seems like the only drawback for Virgin is presumably the neo is less fuel efficient as it is more tradition in construction?

    • Rhys says:

      Not entirely clear. The Neo gets very close I believe.

      • Alastair says:

        The original Airbus sales argument for the 330neo was that the slightly higher fuel burn vs the 787-9 was more than offset by the lower purchase price. Not sure if that’s still the case!

        • BJ says:

          That was what I read when neo was launched, depending on the number if years an airline intended keeping the aircraft the total cost of ownership and operation for the neo was better than the 787. However, it is not hard to imagine that Boeing is currently offering huge discounts on all their planes so who knows. In the absence of politics and such discounts I doubt they’d be selling many planes at all.

          • Rhys says:

            Boeing are struggling to get planes out of the door. For any airline trying to get capacity quickly, the neo is a good option.

          • Opus says:

            The only aircraft I can imagine Boeing offering discounts on is the 777X

            The 787 has a backlog of 800 aircraft and is the best selling wide body of all time.

            The only people benefiting is people who already have jets on order and Boeing will give them compensation credits which don’t apply across aircraft families.

            So the pricing power of the 787 and MAX are holding pretty well contrary to what you may think.

  • BJ says:

    Airbus announced an order for 20 A330neo about a week ago. The customer remains undisclosed so perhaps that’s it, awaiting airshow fanfare. A bit-part though considering the likes of Cebu Pacific are reportedly considering an order for 150 of them. I’ve never flew the latter but it is an interesting airline in that I believe it operates its A330 fleet in all-economy while other LCC mostly do so with smaller a320s and A321s.

    • AL says:

      20 in multiple phases might work, unless they’re about to go in to overdrive announcing new routes.

      • Rhys says:

        The 787 fleet is 17 strong so they’d need at least that many to replace them.

        • Chabuddy Geezy says:

          Cebu Pacific also have a 3-3-3 seating on their A330s vs the typical 2-4-2. They fly long haul to Dubai and Australia, but 150 would be a huge number of aircraft for them.

  • Ed says:

    Can’t we have a ‘fleet renewal programme’?

  • Richie says:

    Replacing a lower altitude cabin pressure aircraft, B789, with a standard altitude cabin pressure aircraft, A339neo, is not good for passengers. Airbus seem to be onto a winner.

    • BJ says:

      Better economy cabin in A330, 2-4-2 versus 3-3-3 on 787. I cannot personally say I’ve noticed any difference in oressurecand humidity on 787s and A350s compared to older aircraft.

    • kiran_mk2 says:

      I too was hoping that the Dreamliner and A350 would usher in a complete transfer to better cabin conditioning, but it seems like the A330neo and 777X will maintain the old high altitude pressure / low humidity conditioning.

      I’m guessing the A359 would completely blow the financials vs the A330neo.

      • Opus says:

        777X will maintain 787 cabin pressure. So only the 330NEO will have 8,000ft cabin pressurization

        • kiran_mk2 says:

          Good to know. Will it also get a higher humidity as I thought that was dependent on the composite airframe?

      • Richie says:

        B777X will be a lower altitude cabin pressure aircraft.

  • Opus says:

    Only clear advantage the Dreamliner brings is range and cargo. It can go farther and carry more.
    But, I don’t know how important cargo is to virgin. I don’t really understand them

    • Chabuddy Geezy says:

      Indeed, I’m not sure the A330neo has the range for Virgin’s longer routes. Perhaps Virgin will keep some of the 787s but also buy more A330s.

    • Mark says:

      Range isn’t a problem for any of Virgin’s existing routes, though the fuel burn penalty against the 787-9 will be higher on longer routes.

      The 787-9 can carry a heavier payload further, but in practice that would only really have a material impact on significant longer routes even compared to Hong Kong (which they no longer operate) or Sao Paolo (if that ever gets off the ground).

      There’s an article here with a good comparative chart.

      https://epsilonaviation.wordpress.com/2023/11/23/what-are-the-payload-range-diagram-capabilities-of-small-widebody-aircraft/

    • ADS says:

      but excess range is actually a waste of money – and the A330neo can easily cover GRU … so presumably also any other routes than VS might want to launch

      https://aircraft.airbus.com/en/aircraft/a330-advanced-to-boost-profitability/a330neo-advanced-to-future-proof-your-widebody-fleet

      • Mark says:

        Excess range in itself isn’t a problem, though if facilitated by a heavier structure for a higher maximum take-off weight than most airlines need then it can make the aircraft considerably less attractive (several shrinks such as the 777-200LR have suffered from this, as did the A380 which was design to support a larger variant that never appeared).

        That’s not the issue here though – the A330-900 is a bit heavier due the age of the underlying design and the fact that less of it is carbon fibre. The 787-9 has better range-payload performance despite being lighter. I’m sure VS will have crunched the numbers to see what works best for them given the up-front investment, lease and fuel costs for current and likely future route maps.

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