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Return leg of a 241 Club World booking (SFO-LHR) cancelled last minute at the boarding gate. Talk that it was due to a crew issue. Family of 4. BA arranged overnight hotel and booked them on the Virgin 787 flight in Upper Class the next day, which sounds like a decent outcome vs. risk of downgrade etc. Question – if it was a crewing issue (not an exceptional circumstance), are they entitled to the EU261 compensation too? Is it irrelevant that the tickets are reward seats and booked via a 241 too? Thanks
@PB2 – crewing issues are considered to be within the normal operations of an airline so cannot constitute ‘extraordinary circumstances’. A relatively recent CJEU decision determined that even the death of a flight crew member at an outstation was not ‘extraordinary’. Of course, the actual reason formally given (rather than any ‘talk’) may differ!
The use of Avios and or a 241 is indeed irrelevant – each passenger, adult, child or infant, is entitled to the £520 absent any ‘extraordinary circumstances’ defence.
Yes entitled. We had a similar issue from Singapore. Flight cancelled at gate due to flight crew illness.
Returned next day on Singapore Airlines Business Class after a night and day in Singapore, paid for by BA.
On return we claimed under 261 plus cost of phone calls to BA. Got somewhere around £1100 for the two of us, paid after about 4 weeks of the claim.Submitting the claim was problematic. There is a brief chat here https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/ba-online-compensation-form-not-working/
Thanks to you both 👍
Just to add there was the recent Supreme Court ruling that BA lost re sickness
The use of Avios and or a 241 is indeed irrelevant – each passenger, adult, child or infant, is entitled to the £520 absent any ‘extraordinary circumstances’ defence.
A prescient observation here as it looks like it was indeed the death of a crew member at an outstation.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ba-crew-member-us-hotel-room-heathrow-flight-cancelled-b1223337.html
Given the article mentions SFO I would be very surprised if this isn’t talking about the same flight as the OP.I’m guessing this was the flight where the member of cabin crew died during their layover. That by itself might be considered non-extraordinary as its just one crew memeber but the fact the entire crew felt too upset to do the flight meant there were zero crew available which may be considered extraordinary – I doubt losing the entire crew at a couple of hours notice is common.
Yes indeed, it sadly does appear to be the reason for this cancellation.
I’m guessing this was the flight where the member of cabin crew died during their layover. That by itself might be considered non-extraordinary as its just one crew memeber but the fact the entire crew felt too upset to do the flight meant there were zero crew available which may be considered extraordinary – I doubt losing the entire crew at a couple of hours notice is common.
It’s most certainly a rare circumstance, and a deeply upsetting one as any form of death on duty (I’m assuming layover time counts as on duty for this purpose) would be. I’m not privy to any information in this case, but it’d be a horrible circumstance in any line of work I’m certain, and I doubt many people would be fit to work having discovered their collueage is deceased. However the only thing in law that actually matters is what “exceptional circumstance” means. The Supreme Court decision reaffirmed that providing a compliant flight crew is part of the ordinary course of business for an airline, including the circumstances when crew may be in short supply or initially be fit for work and then become unfit through no fault of their own while on duty. It is a business decision where and how to station relief crew after all, it isn’t for the customer to dictate that.
The Judgement in Lipton against BA Cityflyer is available here: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/judgments/uksc-2021-0098
It could help to scroll to paragraph 163 and read down. To give my own words on the matter, both the CJEU and UKSC appear to me to have concluded that for something to fall into extraordinary circumstances it almost always will be something done to the Airline by an external action, such as bad weather or serious disruptive behaviour by a passenger. It can very rarely involve something the Airline controls such as engines or employees, even if there are second order external factors at play in providing those.
Well, this isn’t Lipton. There is a strong argument that the death of a crew “team member” is definitely exceptional. As would be if a person was ill on board and the plane had to be diverted. It’s not practical – or in the passengers’ interests – to have a spare crew for every flight. Spare person, yes – not the whole crew.
I imagine BA will pay any compensation as a matter of respect. And I would equally imagine that any recipients donate it to charity.
Well, this isn’t Lipton. There is a strong argument that the death of a crew “team member” is definitely exceptional. As would be if a person was ill on board and the plane had to be diverted. It’s not practical – or in the passengers’ interests – to have a spare crew for every flight. Spare person, yes – not the whole crew.
I imagine BA will pay any compensation as a matter of respect. And I would equally imagine that any recipients donate it to charity.
I’m not sure why Lipton was brought up as it’s not relevant here. The CJEU determined (in Fligtright v TAP) that the death of crew member did not constitute ‘extraordinary circumstances’ and while this decision post dates Brexit so is not binding, the judgment follows the same logic as Lipton and in matters of 261 the court would be likely to follow the CJEU.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:62022CJ0156
I agree that it would be pretty churlish to be claiming compensation in these circumstances unless donating it.
Logically, not that the law is logical.
Then at LHR not having a backup crew shouldn’t be extraordinary. Neither at any major hub. Eg new York, ie multiple flights a day.
But at a say 3 times a week longhaul out station it could be deemed extraordinary depending on cause.
I don’t think it would be churlish to claim compensation at a major hub.
Someone died is the thing here. So some of us would decide it’s in poor taste to claim compensation regardless of a right provided by law. Especially as it does seem passengers were looked after correctly in terms of them being accommodated and / or rerouted.
Someone died is the thing here. So some of us think it’s in poor taste to claim compensation. Especially as it doea seem passengers were looked after correctly in terns of them being accommodated and / or rerouted.
People die every day. He or she could be a tube driver, a Tesco employee, work at a bank and most likely will be a mother or father to someone. Do you expect the world to stop each time a life event happens?
You claim compensation because it is your right. It is not an extraordinary circumstance and it is planned for (BA could reduce the risk by having full crew in stand by or by simply, as they did here, cancel and put passengers in other flights and pay for the cancelation/delay).
BA doesn’t provide you with a cheaper fare if you need to rush somewhere because somebody died (they do offer cancellations and changes if you are travelling but won’t go as far as helping you reach your destination).
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