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Forums Frequent flyer programs British Airways Executive Club Avion Express operating some British Airways flights

  • SamG 1,859 posts

    Just to be clear there are three things happening at BA

    Some LHR flights operated by Finnair. I really wouldn’t worry about this, their aircraft are pretty much the same as BA, they operated last year too

    Most (?) BA flights ex-LGW operated by BA Euroflyer. This is just a paperwork thing to pay the crews less, you won’t notice any difference on board

    Some BA LGW flights to be operated by Avion Express. They also fly A320s though by the sounds of things their older cabins means things are a tighter behind the exit rows

    They’ll all have CE onboard, all usual status BA benefits apply, BA luggage rules etc

    BA does have a long standing policy to allow you to swap to a BA metal flight +/- 3 days from your subbed out (Finnair / Avion Express) flight. So this might be an option for some. But they won’t allow connections to IB etc and any subsequent costs to change other elements of a BA Holiday are at your expense

    As posted above Avion Express are a large operator of this nature and have operated for many UK and global airlines. Personally I’d be slightly annoyed, have a look if there were a very closely timed BA metal service otherwise I would stick with it. It’s better than the alternative of BA cancelling multiple lines of flying or suffering on the day reliability issues if they stretch too thin

    Lyn 209 posts

    Is there any way to know which LGW routes are going to be operated by Avion Express before booking?

    PeteM 860 posts

    Just to be clear there are three things happening at BA

    Some LHR flights operated by Finnair. I really wouldn’t worry about this, their aircraft are pretty much the same as BA, they operated last year too

    Most (?) BA flights ex-LGW operated by BA Euroflyer. This is just a paperwork thing to pay the crews less, you won’t notice any difference on board

    Some BA LGW flights to be operated by Avion Express. They also fly A320s though by the sounds of things their older cabins means things are a tighter behind the exit rows

    They’ll all have CE onboard, all usual status BA benefits apply, BA luggage rules etc

    BA does have a long standing policy to allow you to swap to a BA metal flight +/- 3 days from your subbed out (Finnair / Avion Express) flight. So this might be an option for some. But they won’t allow connections to IB etc and any subsequent costs to change other elements of a BA Holiday are at your expense

    As posted above Avion Express are a large operator of this nature and have operated for many UK and global airlines. Personally I’d be slightly annoyed, have a look if there were a very closely timed BA metal service otherwise I would stick with it. It’s better than the alternative of BA cancelling multiple lines of flying or suffering on the day reliability issues if they stretch too thin

    Perfect summary ✅

    pj51182 19 posts

    No, not all from LGW. My just said it was BA Euroflyer, no mention of Avion Express at all.

    We received the first email advising of the change to BA Euroflyer…

    “We wanted to let you know we’ve been making some changes to our operations at London Gatwick. Our new subsidiary BA Euroflyer will now operate your upcoming flight to/from Gatwick.

    Therefore, you may notice ‘BA Euroflyer’ referenced within some aspects of your journey. Please rest assured there are no changes to your booking or experience, and you’ll still receive the same great service when travelling with us. You don’t need to do anything.”

    Then three days later another email stating the flight would be operated by avion.

    I think it’s fair to say the second email is contradictory to the first in that “us” is now someone else!

    Richie 1,201 posts

    Were Titan Airways not available or too expensive? The latter is my guess.
    This BA short haul Gatwick silliness is peeing me off.

    PaulC 72 posts

    I posted this yesterday afternoon and forgot to come back for the updates!

    Well it doesn’t sound promising although we will still be going on holiday, shame as will be driving down past Manchester to a pre-booked hotel and parking the night before at Gatwick.

    There is however availability MAN-LHR LHR-PMI and return on our dates which weren’t available in reward seats when we originally booked hence the Gatwick flights.

    Does anyone know if they would likely offer us this as an alternative?

    I think I can cancel my parking for free but our hotel
    Isn’t (Hilton Gatwick South)

    pdw8 7 posts

    My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

    pj51182 19 posts

    My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

    Thankyou for the information.

    SamG 1,859 posts

    Were Titan Airways not available or too expensive? The latter is my guess.
    This BA short haul Gatwick silliness is peeing me off.

    Not available I’d say – they’re already operating for TUI and they’re flying for Jet2 out of Stansted I believe too

    The easiest and cheapest option for BA would likely be to have a rolling program of cancellations of the least busy flights ~15 days out. This would be far more inconvenient for their passengers than this arrangement (which to be fair to them is actually quite expensive for BA!).

    Unlike the charters who use these airlines every year I believe this was planned quite last minute due to delays in aircraft delivery and maintenance (which is impacting airlines globally currently) I was looking at a Swiss itinerary and a lot of their London flying is subbed out to the likes of Air Baltic for example currently

    PlaneSpeaking 3 posts

    My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

    Thanks PDW8, this is very reassuring. Our LGW-PFO is now Avion Express in June, all week! We could take BA LHR-LCA but the 1.5 hour drive doesn’t appeal so we’ll just go with it. To know there’s a BA crew member on board is great news and we don’t anticipate any problems but if we do, we will have a massive grumble at BA when we get back. They can’t promise the same CE service on Euroflyer as BA and then switch to deliver something sub-standard so that’s our plan but fingers crossed. By the way, having already experienced Euroflyer, we were a bit nervous when we saw how young the crew were but actually, they did a super job. I have no idea if one of them was your daughter but we were impressed. Thanks again.

    PeteM 860 posts

    I was looking at a Swiss itinerary and a lot of their London flying is subbed out to the likes of Air Baltic for example currently

    I guess there is less to complain there, as they are lovely new A220s. Irony is that Air Baltic is having to ACMI-hire planes from others as they’ve lease too many out (hopefully for more money!).

    SamG 1,859 posts

    Yep didn’t bother me. Unfortunately I faffed around too much and the option was gone by the time I went to book anyway !

    sarah1234 1 post

    I have heard along the grape vineyard the reason for this change is down to not having enough cabin crew for BA Euroflyer for the summer

    Richie 1,201 posts

    I have heard along the grape vineyard the reason for this change is down to not having enough cabin crew for BA Euroflyer for the summer

    So ‘cut your labour costs’ hasn’t worked because the cheapest labour just isn’t available?

    Rob
    HfP Staff
    2,502 posts

    Euroflyer is seeing high staff turnover I believe, with unfriendly rostering (such as only one day off between blocks of work) apparently being another issue. The lack of even half decent pay and the working hours clearly don’t help either.

    There are presumably only so many 22 year olds living for free with their parents, with a car, within easy driving access of LGW, to recruit from ….

    SamG 1,859 posts

    Yep. Funny that …

    I had a nice chat with a cabin crew on one of my recent Euroflyer flights. She had quit when Gatwick went longhaul only as she didn’t like being away from home so much. So Euroflyer with no nightstop was ideal, didn’t care about the salary but was finding the rostering arrangement tough and apparently Easyjet is better but BA are making changes due to the high turnover

    Seems sensible to me, plenty of empty nesters would do the job and not really need the money, be happy to take time off in winter, be reliable and will stick around for a good while. But they won’t be willing to be worked to the bone. Doesn’t seem an expensive fix

    NorthernLass 9,496 posts

    I’d find that quite appealing as a future empty-nester. Work through the summer period then do my own travelling in the colder months. Don’t suppose there’s much chance of BA returning to MAN though!

    Roehydes Finest 11 posts

    Does anyone know for definite whether a change such as this is grounds for a full refund? Undoubtedly it’ll require a call but just wondering how obstinate BA are likely to be….

    JDB 5,658 posts

    Does anyone know for definite whether a change such as this is grounds for a full refund? Undoubtedly it’ll require a call but just wondering how obstinate BA are likely to be….

    The change of operator gives you no entitlement beyond that offered by your ticket. BA’s offer of moving the flight by +/- three days is a concession they have elected to make, but have no obligation to offer. Previous experience of this sort of thing with eg Titan Airways has been fine.

    pero 1 post

    I have just spoken to BA customer service and they say all BA flights from Gatwick from May to Sept are going to be operated by Avion Express. He said there is no difference to service and the aircraft are all similar to BA. We are / were travelling BA Club Europe and paid quite a lot more for our flights. He said it will be the same level of facilities and service. As ALL BA flights are operated by Avion for around 5 months it seems there is no choice……..

    Richie 1,201 posts

    I have just spoken to BA customer service and they say all BA flights from Gatwick from May to Sept are going to be operated by Avion Express…

    That’s simply not correct, BA aircraft are operating SH flights from Gatwick tomorrow.

    NorthernLass 9,496 posts

    Well enough gin and pink grapefruit soda with my eggs benedict in the Qantas lounge beforehand and hopefully I won’t notice whether BA, Finnair, or a flying carpet is conveying us to VIE. Having read this site for several years I know full well that equipment changes are part of the deal when flying. I’m also now in 53A on the upper deck of an A380 to DXB in December (unless it changes again!) so it’s swings and roundabouts.

    PeteM 860 posts

    I have just spoken to BA customer service and they say all BA flights from Gatwick from May to Sept are going to be operated by Avion Express.

    That is certainly one of the more creative lies from BA customer services!

    VSCXFAN 16 posts

    My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

    Presumably many of the grumbles came from pax in Avion Express’ A320-200’s Economy seats with 27.5″ pitch compared to the ‘generous’ 29-30″ they had in many cases paid a premium (£23 vs £19) to reserve on BA/Euroflyer metal.

    pj51182 19 posts

    Found the following…

    Published at 1500GMT 09MAY23

    British Airways starting next week is adding leased Airbus A320 aircraft from Avion Express to support its operation, serving flights to/from London Gatwick. From 15MAY23 to 30SEP23, leased A320 will be served regularly on following routes.

    London Gatwick – Alicante
    London Gatwick – Amsterdam
    London Gatwick – Antalya
    London Gatwick – Bari
    London Gatwick – Bordeaux
    London Gatwick – Cagliari
    London Gatwick – Catania
    London Gatwick – Dalaman
    London Gatwick – Dubrovnik
    London Gatwick – Faro
    London Gatwick – Gran Canaria/Las Palmas
    London Gatwick – Ibiza
    London Gatwick – Irakleion
    London Gatwick – Kos
    London Gatwick – Lanzarote
    London Gatwick – Mahon
    London Gatwick – Malaga
    London Gatwick – Malta
    London Gatwick – Montpellier
    London Gatwick – Nice
    London Gatwick – Palma de Mallorca
    London Gatwick – Paphos
    London Gatwick – Rhodes
    London Gatwick – Seville
    London Gatwick – Tenerife South
    London Gatwick – Turin
    London Gatwick – Venice Marco Polo
    London Gatwick – Verona

    Other routes may also see leased Avion Express A320 aircraft operating on one-time basis.

    Source:

    List of routes from Gatwick

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