Avion Express operating some British Airways flights

[SamG]

Just to be clear there are three things happening at BA

Some LHR flights operated by Finnair. I really wouldn’t worry about this, their aircraft are pretty much the same as BA, they operated last year too

Most (?) BA flights ex-LGW operated by BA Euroflyer. This is just a paperwork thing to pay the crews less, you won’t notice any difference on board

Some BA LGW flights to be operated by Avion Express. They also fly A320s though by the sounds of things their older cabins means things are a tighter behind the exit rows

They’ll all have CE onboard, all usual status BA benefits apply, BA luggage rules etc

BA does have a long standing policy to allow you to swap to a BA metal flight +/- 3 days from your subbed out (Finnair / Avion Express) flight. So this might be an option for some. But they won’t allow connections to IB etc and any subsequent costs to change other elements of a BA Holiday are at your expense

As posted above Avion Express are a large operator of this nature and have operated for many UK and global airlines. Personally I’d be slightly annoyed, have a look if there were a very closely timed BA metal service otherwise I would stick with it. It’s better than the alternative of BA cancelling multiple lines of flying or suffering on the day reliability issues if they stretch too thin

[Lyn]

Is there any way to know which LGW routes are going to be operated by Avion Express before booking?

[PeteM]

SamG wrote:

Just to be clear there are three things happening at BA

Some LHR flights operated by Finnair. I really wouldn’t worry about this, their aircraft are pretty much the same as BA, they operated last year too

Most (?) BA flights ex-LGW operated by BA Euroflyer. This is just a paperwork thing to pay the crews less, you won’t notice any difference on board

Some BA LGW flights to be operated by Avion Express. They also fly A320s though by the sounds of things their older cabins means things are a tighter behind the exit rows

They’ll all have CE onboard, all usual status BA benefits apply, BA luggage rules etc

BA does have a long standing policy to allow you to swap to a BA metal flight +/- 3 days from your subbed out (Finnair / Avion Express) flight. So this might be an option for some. But they won’t allow connections to IB etc and any subsequent costs to change other elements of a BA Holiday are at your expense

As posted above Avion Express are a large operator of this nature and have operated for many UK and global airlines. Personally I’d be slightly annoyed, have a look if there were a very closely timed BA metal service otherwise I would stick with it. It’s better than the alternative of BA cancelling multiple lines of flying or suffering on the day reliability issues if they stretch too thin

Perfect summary ✅

[pj51182]

Peter K wrote:

No, not all from LGW. My just said it was BA Euroflyer, no mention of Avion Express at all.

We received the first email advising of the change to BA Euroflyer…

“We wanted to let you know we’ve been making some changes to our operations at London Gatwick. Our new subsidiary BA Euroflyer will now operate your upcoming flight to/from Gatwick.

Therefore, you may notice ‘BA Euroflyer’ referenced within some aspects of your journey. Please rest assured there are no changes to your booking or experience, and you’ll still receive the same great service when travelling with us. You don’t need to do anything.”

Then three days later another email stating the flight would be operated by avion.

I think it’s fair to say the second email is contradictory to the first in that “us” is now someone else!

[Richie]

Were Titan Airways not available or too expensive? The latter is my guess.
This BA short haul Gatwick silliness is peeing me off.

[PaulC]

I posted this yesterday afternoon and forgot to come back for the updates!

Well it doesn’t sound promising although we will still be going on holiday, shame as will be driving down past Manchester to a pre-booked hotel and parking the night before at Gatwick.

There is however availability MAN-LHR LHR-PMI and return on our dates which weren’t available in reward seats when we originally booked hence the Gatwick flights.

Does anyone know if they would likely offer us this as an alternative?

I think I can cancel my parking for free but our hotel
Isn’t (Hilton Gatwick South)

[pdw8]

My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

[pj51182]

pdw8 wrote:

My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

Thankyou for the information.

[SamG]

Richie wrote:

Were Titan Airways not available or too expensive? The latter is my guess.
This BA short haul Gatwick silliness is peeing me off.

Not available I’d say – they’re already operating for TUI and they’re flying for Jet2 out of Stansted I believe too

The easiest and cheapest option for BA would likely be to have a rolling program of cancellations of the least busy flights ~15 days out. This would be far more inconvenient for their passengers than this arrangement (which to be fair to them is actually quite expensive for BA!).

Unlike the charters who use these airlines every year I believe this was planned quite last minute due to delays in aircraft delivery and maintenance (which is impacting airlines globally currently) I was looking at a Swiss itinerary and a lot of their London flying is subbed out to the likes of Air Baltic for example currently

[PlaneSpeaking]

pdw8 wrote:

My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

Thanks PDW8, this is very reassuring. Our LGW-PFO is now Avion Express in June, all week! We could take BA LHR-LCA but the 1.5 hour drive doesn’t appeal so we’ll just go with it. To know there’s a BA crew member on board is great news and we don’t anticipate any problems but if we do, we will have a massive grumble at BA when we get back. They can’t promise the same CE service on Euroflyer as BA and then switch to deliver something sub-standard so that’s our plan but fingers crossed. By the way, having already experienced Euroflyer, we were a bit nervous when we saw how young the crew were but actually, they did a super job. I have no idea if one of them was your daughter but we were impressed. Thanks again.

[PeteM]

SamG wrote:

I was looking at a Swiss itinerary and a lot of their London flying is subbed out to the likes of Air Baltic for example currently

I guess there is less to complain there, as they are lovely new A220s. Irony is that Air Baltic is having to ACMI-hire planes from others as they’ve lease too many out (hopefully for more money!).

[SamG]

Yep didn’t bother me. Unfortunately I faffed around too much and the option was gone by the time I went to book anyway !

[sarah1234]

I have heard along the grape vineyard the reason for this change is down to not having enough cabin crew for BA Euroflyer for the summer

[Richie]

sarah1234 wrote:

I have heard along the grape vineyard the reason for this change is down to not having enough cabin crew for BA Euroflyer for the summer

So ‘cut your labour costs’ hasn’t worked because the cheapest labour just isn’t available?

[Rob]

Euroflyer is seeing high staff turnover I believe, with unfriendly rostering (such as only one day off between blocks of work) apparently being another issue. The lack of even half decent pay and the working hours clearly don’t help either.

There are presumably only so many 22 year olds living for free with their parents, with a car, within easy driving access of LGW, to recruit from ….

[SamG]

Yep. Funny that …

I had a nice chat with a cabin crew on one of my recent Euroflyer flights. She had quit when Gatwick went longhaul only as she didn’t like being away from home so much. So Euroflyer with no nightstop was ideal, didn’t care about the salary but was finding the rostering arrangement tough and apparently Easyjet is better but BA are making changes due to the high turnover

Seems sensible to me, plenty of empty nesters would do the job and not really need the money, be happy to take time off in winter, be reliable and will stick around for a good while. But they won’t be willing to be worked to the bone. Doesn’t seem an expensive fix

[NorthernLass]

I’d find that quite appealing as a future empty-nester. Work through the summer period then do my own travelling in the colder months. Don’t suppose there’s much chance of BA returning to MAN though!

[Roehydes Finest]

Does anyone know for definite whether a change such as this is grounds for a full refund? Undoubtedly it’ll require a call but just wondering how obstinate BA are likely to be….

[JDB]

Roehydes Finest wrote:

Does anyone know for definite whether a change such as this is grounds for a full refund? Undoubtedly it’ll require a call but just wondering how obstinate BA are likely to be….

The change of operator gives you no entitlement beyond that offered by your ticket. BA’s offer of moving the flight by +/- three days is a concession they have elected to make, but have no obligation to offer. Previous experience of this sort of thing with eg Titan Airways has been fine.

[pero]

I have just spoken to BA customer service and they say all BA flights from Gatwick from May to Sept are going to be operated by Avion Express. He said there is no difference to service and the aircraft are all similar to BA. We are / were travelling BA Club Europe and paid quite a lot more for our flights. He said it will be the same level of facilities and service. As ALL BA flights are operated by Avion for around 5 months it seems there is no choice……..

[Richie]

pero wrote:

I have just spoken to BA customer service and they say all BA flights from Gatwick from May to Sept are going to be operated by Avion Express…

That’s simply not correct, BA aircraft are operating SH flights from Gatwick tomorrow.

[NorthernLass]

Well enough gin and pink grapefruit soda with my eggs benedict in the Qantas lounge beforehand and hopefully I won’t notice whether BA, Finnair, or a flying carpet is conveying us to VIE. Having read this site for several years I know full well that equipment changes are part of the deal when flying. I’m also now in 53A on the upper deck of an A380 to DXB in December (unless it changes again!) so it’s swings and roundabouts.

[PeteM]

pero wrote:

I have just spoken to BA customer service and they say all BA flights from Gatwick from May to Sept are going to be operated by Avion Express.

That is certainly one of the more creative lies from BA customer services!

[VSCXFAN]

pdw8 wrote:

My daughter is cabin crew for BA Euroflyer, not sure how for how long but they are putting one BA crew member on each Avion flight to monitor/help/oversee things. Yesterday she was on a Malaga flight, same BA food in CE and service for economy. She said there were a few grumbles from passengers but it was essentially a normal flight.

Presumably many of the grumbles came from pax in Avion Express’ A320-200’s Economy seats with 27.5″ pitch compared to the ‘generous’ 29-30″ they had in many cases paid a premium (£23 vs £19) to reserve on BA/Euroflyer metal.

[pj51182]

Found the following…

Published at 1500GMT 09MAY23

British Airways starting next week is adding leased Airbus A320 aircraft from Avion Express to support its operation, serving flights to/from London Gatwick. From 15MAY23 to 30SEP23, leased A320 will be served regularly on following routes.

London Gatwick – Alicante
London Gatwick – Amsterdam
London Gatwick – Antalya
London Gatwick – Bari
London Gatwick – Bordeaux
London Gatwick – Cagliari
London Gatwick – Catania
London Gatwick – Dalaman
London Gatwick – Dubrovnik
London Gatwick – Faro
London Gatwick – Gran Canaria/Las Palmas
London Gatwick – Ibiza
London Gatwick – Irakleion
London Gatwick – Kos
London Gatwick – Lanzarote
London Gatwick – Mahon
London Gatwick – Malaga
London Gatwick – Malta
London Gatwick – Montpellier
London Gatwick – Nice
London Gatwick – Palma de Mallorca
London Gatwick – Paphos
London Gatwick – Rhodes
London Gatwick – Seville
London Gatwick – Tenerife South
London Gatwick – Turin
London Gatwick – Venice Marco Polo
London Gatwick – Verona

Other routes may also see leased Avion Express A320 aircraft operating on one-time basis.

Source:

List of routes from Gatwick