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On the 13 jan our flight from LHR to Miami was delayed taking off and landing
Departure time should of been 09.40 , left gate 12.07 arrived into Miami 3 hour 4 mins late.
We got to the gate around 08.00 at LHR , plane was at stand but no ba staff present. Around 09.00 ba staff announced flight delayed due to crew shortage , £10 vouchers for food and drink given out . Boarded flight just after 11.00… captain announced flight delayed was due to a pilot being sick. Cabin crew also confirmed this.
Submitted a claim for comp of 260 per person due to the flight landing 3 hour 4 min late. BA after 2 months rejected saying delay was due to ATC, went back again and they still denied comp . Asked for a final response letter so that I could raise a claim via CEDR which they gave.
Submitted claim 11 march via CEDR , no update or any communications yet .
Is there anyway I can get any further evidence proving the claim/reason for delay to strengthen case .
Crew sickness is fully airline responsibility and airline should have backup arrangements in place. It looks like they did as your flight wasn’t actually cancelled although unfortunately for BA still resulted in a delay on landing.
I believe cabin announcements have to be legally recorded so there will be a recording held by BA. I don’t know if you have the legal right to request it, or if it can be compelled to be produced to an arbitrator. I’m pretty sure at MCOL a judge could subpoena it.
There was a very similar case reported on here in the past 2-8 days or so, when BA changed their story like this to try to deny compensation, then went 2 weeks after being asked to submit their side of things by CEDR then a 10 day extension… then BA requested a further 10 day extension because they ‘hadn’t had time to prepare their case’ 🙂 and then capitulated and paid up.
My gut feeling is that as there was a cabin announcement by the pilot and crew said the same, BA will pay up after dragging it out. I wouldn’t try to get the recording at this point now it’s in the hands of CEDR even if I could as that might reveal I felt vulnerable. I’d just let CEDR take its course and hope you get a higher standard of arbitrator but could be useful to know that recording must exist so BA must have it so presumably could be requested to produce it.
BA will have to provide the necessary evidence to CEDR if they defend the claim and CEDR will assess that evidence in deciding your case. Realistically, you won’t get any evidence beyond that. The trouble with a delay so close to the compensation threshold is that BA will try to play up the ATC part of the delay to get it under three hours. There’s nothing you can do about that – it will be another issue for CEDR to decide.
My wife was also on this flight (and missed her four hour connection on separate tickets) and has reminded me that I didn’t submit her claim !
Your timelines are the same as hers along with the same narrative – they had to get another pilot as one was sick. Speculation on my part is that BA lost its slot caused by the late crew arrival and that’s why they stated ATC, but really this is just games by BA. I’m going to check the FlyerTalk thread and see if the delay was noted on there / ask to see if anyone can get the historic
MCOL or CEDR? Can you explain pls. Denied comp for BA crew sickness SYD-LHR. Was put onto QR seven hours later so arrived around 8 hours later than original BA booking
BA gave me 10k avios which I rejected but they left them there for now and have confirmed twice that they will not change their refusal for £520.Just sue them – what’s the problem? MCOL takes less time than typing your post…
Unhelpful post
MCOL costs money to lodge a claim and then more if there is a hearing plus requires more preparation in making your case
CEDR is free but less legalistic. You need to make a coherent case to the arbitrator.
MCOL or CEDR? Can you explain pls. Denied comp for BA crew sickness SYD-LHR. Was put onto QR seven hours later so arrived around 8 hours later than original BA booking
BA gave me 10k avios which I rejected but they left them there for now and have confirmed twice that they will not change their refusal for £520.What is the basis for BA’s refusal to pay compensation, or have they not specified? How do you know for sure that delay was caused by crew sickness – as in evidence the court would accept? What alternative rerouting options did BA offer if any?
Just sue them – what’s the problem? MCOL takes less time than typing your post…
That’s simply not true. MCOL and it’s simplicity is a service we are very lucky to have in the UK, but to be successful it requires you to put forward a legal argument (unlike CEDR) and if you don’t approach it in a careful and professional manner, you greatly reduce your prospects and risk the fees. It takes some time to prepare the Particulars of Claim, a chronology and to collate/index all the supporting documents. It does also require the payment of issue fees and potentially hearing fees, so while it isn’t difficult, one needs to do it properly.
MCOL or CEDR? Can you explain pls. Denied comp for BA crew sickness SYD-LHR. Was put onto QR seven hours later so arrived around 8 hours later than original BA booking
BA gave me 10k avios which I rejected but they left them there for now and have confirmed twice that they will not change their refusal for £520.What is the basis for BA’s refusal to pay compensation, or have they not specified? How do you know for sure that delay was caused by crew sickness – as in evidence the court would accept? What alternative rerouting options did BA offer if any?
Was announced in Sydney and I have two emails from BA confirming crew illness is not airlines problem re compensation : to quote-
I’ve had another look at your claim for compensation and I’ve taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date. Based on this, our decision hasn’t changed and the response you’ve received about the eligibility of your compensation claim are correct.
As your flight was delayed due to flight crew sickness, it means you’re not eligible for compensation.
Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 and The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licencing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 states a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances, that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed/cancelled flight.
Qatar was the only option I heard as it was a very informal process of shout out from the queue if you don’t want to wait 24 hours (as many had to)
Crew illness is a little complicated, although the decision in Lipton v BA City Flyer Ltd [2021] EWCA Civ 454 is in your favour, it’s annoyingly specific. There is also the issue of choosing to take the QR flight (ie making it a voluntary election) vs waiting for the next day and BA paying expenses in the interim. You have a good prospect of winning, but it looks as though BA won’t concede, so you will need to take them to CEDR or MCOL.
Is Lipton v BACF about crew sickness at non-bases?
Edit: Ooops already mentioned.
There’s enough cases about been judged and BA or other airlines lost on this point, to indicate crew sickness is*not* being accepted as an exceptional circumstance exempting airlines from EU261 legislation. It’s not a grey area. Airlines are expected to have contingency arrangements for sickness of their own crews.
Have a look round here on HfP, also Flyertalk will have well-indexed reports of cases that will let you know that once again BA is lying about what they’re responsible to compensate for and you should pursue it.
Just to forestall JDB’s next coming comment that I am reckless to advise you this, success is never 100% guaranteed but BA would have to work very, very hard to win this (at MCOL at least – CEDR has much greater risk). My bet is that if you follow the excellent advice on here including earlier posts of JDB and others, as to how to communicate with BA in a way that lets them know you mean business, and pursue it, there’s a good chance BA will fold near any hearing to avoid its costs to them especially as they’re so likely to lose anyway.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
@Lady London – nothing reckless about that; the OP either gets compensated or doesn’t. Reckless is advising that following a cancellation it’s then reasonable to expect the airline to rebook a year hence, or (others, more than you) suggesting someone should go off and buy expensive tickets and be sure of getting their money back. Both should be well caveated as they carry significant risk.
PS I agree that this idea of breaking down the cause of a total delay into a mix of factors, some factors exempting from compensation, some not, which BA seems to be more assiduously pursuing recently, thus taking the combination of factors the airline is responsible for, below the minimum total delay to be eligible for compensation, is always worth considering as a risk in case an airline can hoodwink a judge or an arbitrator this way.
What I can’t understand is how, if a delay is initially caused by a cause that doesn’t exempt an airline from paying compensation, such as crew sickness or crew unable to reach the flight timely or mechanical issues, that delay then exposing them to, say, ATC delays (eg having to queue up at a busy airport for a takeoff slot after a mechanical problem’s been fixed or if the original delay took long enough for weather to have caused flight takeoff restrictions)… I can’t understand why the fact of the original non-exempting-from-compensation type delay isn’t still considered as having put the airline in the path of the subsequently arising exceptional delays and so the airline is still responsible for the whole length of whatever the total delay turns out to be.
But JDB says airlines are being able to weasel out of compensating for such delays by using this fractionating technique. Though in your case you simply accepted the offered Qatar reroute so it looks like in this case you’re clear.
Crew illness is a little complicated, although the decision in Lipton v BA City Flyer Ltd [2021] EWCA Civ 454 is in your favour, it’s annoyingly specific. There is also the issue of choosing to take the QR flight (ie making it a voluntary election) vs waiting for the next day and BA paying expenses in the interim. You have a good prospect of winning, but it looks as though BA won’t concede, so you will need to take them to CEDR or MCOL.
So Ba have finally agreed to pay £520 for the syd delay caused by crew illness but won’t accept liability. This was achieved through CEDR. I doubt I can do much about the acceptance of liability but can I do anything to ensure payment is made without further delay?
IIRC, CEDR gives BA a couple of weeks to pay up, then you can go back to them if you haven’t got your money and CEDR will give them a nudge. Timescales might be a bit longer though these days. But there’s no reason BA won’t pay you, they do tend to co-operate once it gets to this stage.
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