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Forums Other Flight changes and cancellations help BA cancellation, only earlier flights offered

  • tobynow 35 posts

    Hi all. I’ve had a search for this but can’t find a similar question.

    BA have cancelled our inbound from Marseille (to LHR) in a few weeks time. They have emailed alerting us to this.

    All they can offer is an inconvenient flight 5 hours earlier which will be a headache with small kids. It will also effectively mean a days less holiday as we’ll need to cancel some plans.

    There are flights the next day but they also don’t really suit us due to work obligations. I can’t find better flights with an alternative carrier.

    So I think we have no choice but to accept.

    My question is, are we eligible for any compensation for the inconvenience?

    yonasl 987 posts

    You can pick a flight later on and will get 1) right of care meaning they have to pay for your hotel and food and 2) UK261 compensation for the cancellation.

    The reason they only offer the earlier flight is that they don’t have to provide any of those to you.

    yonasl 987 posts

    More specifically to your last question. I have seen messages here saying that you now have right of compensation (that is UK261) if your new flight arrives BEFORE the original time. I have never tested this and I think some have had trouble trying to get airlines to pay.

    The CAA website says:

    If you received less than seven days’ notice of the cancellation, you can claim compensation based on the timings of the alternative flight:

    If your new flight departs no more than one hour before the scheduled time of your original flight AND your new flight arrives less than two hours after the scheduled time of your original flight, you are not entitled to financial compensation
    https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/cancellations/

    But they don’t provide information on what the compensation is for arriving way too early as will be your case.

    meta 1,466 posts

    @tobynow won’t get compensation because the flight was cancelled more than 14 days in advance.

    The following rights only:

    1. Re-route on another airline or BA. They can also re-book the whole trip for later should they not wish to travel at all.
    2. Right to care (accommodation, 3 meals a day and two phone calls/internet) while waiting for the new flight plus transport to airport

    They don’t need to cover if you’re cutting the trip short. If there are any other consequential losses, then that’s for travel insurance.

    meta 1,466 posts

    More specifically to your last question. I have seen messages here saying that you now have right of compensation (that is UK261) if your new flight arrives BEFORE the original time. I have never tested this and I think some have had trouble trying to get airlines to pay.

    The CAA website says:

    If you received less than seven days’ notice of the cancellation, you can claim compensation based on the timings of the alternative flight:

    If your new flight departs no more than one hour before the scheduled time of your original flight AND your new flight arrives less than two hours after the scheduled time of your original flight, you are not entitled to financial compensation
    https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/cancellations/

    But they don’t provide information on what the compensation is for arriving way too early as will be your case.

    And this again is partial recital of UK261 and doesn’t give a full picture about the rights.

    CAA website is not entirely fit for purpose when it comes to rights under UK261 as it cuts and chops the legislation to suit the airlines.

    yonasl 987 posts

    @tobynow won’t get compensation because the flight was cancelled more than 14 days in advance.

    The following rights only:

    1. Re-route on another airline or BA. They can also re-book the whole trip for later should they not wish to travel at all.
    2. Right to care (accommodation, 3 meals a day and two phone calls/internet) while waiting for the new flight plus transport to airport

    They don’t need to cover if you’re cutting the trip short. If there are any other consequential losses, then that’s for travel insurance.

    I missed the “few weeks” bit and thought it was an upcoming flight. Sorry for that Toby.

    tobynow 35 posts

    Thank you all! I suppose the best way to view this is: while it’s a bit annoying it’s better than facing lots of disruption.

    I’ll have a look at the day before and day after to double check if there is anything we can make work.

    Really appreciate the speedy advice from this group.

    Colin MacKinnon 305 posts

    May also be worth looking at the train to another airport if you don’t want early start and can’t do next day. BA have a 300 miles radius for alternative flights?

    Lady London 2,178 posts

    You can pick a flight later on and will get 1) right of care meaning they have to pay for your hotel and food and 2) UK261 compensation for the cancellation.

    The reason they only offer the earlier flight is that they don’t have to provide any of those to you.

    …Yes and according to so many reporting only being offered earlier flights by BA now at the point the cancellation is informed of, BA is also hoping to reduce compensation for cancelled flight under EU or UK261 to half the rate. Which they can do if you are not more than x hours later than your original flight would have landed.

    So you get to have your weekend break ruined, are faced with getting kids up at 02.00am to make the ridiculously early flight BA is offering instead, or you get forced to lose 1-2 days off your holiday, for the convenience (and profit) of BA. And in return, your flight cancellation compensation (if any) may or may not cover the loss of paid hotel nights, penalties for early hire car return, the nights paid unnecessarily for kennels, etc., if you take an earlier flight as BA is not obliged to pay these. Only your travel insurance miiight tecover them.

    If you have to get back for work etc., you may be a bit stuck. You do have the right to travel on another airline’s flight if that”s going to get you there closer to the time after your holiday or meeting or whatever is concluded, than BA now can. You can get this and people do : Read the threads here on headforpoints in tbe Flight Cancellations and Delays thread for what it will take.

    Btw for those whose domestic connections BA has cancelled? eg you are flying back from the US, you land at 0600am in lovely timing, even allowing for BA’s Terminal 5 baggage chaos, for your booked conection to MAN or EDI at 10.00am?

    British Airways has now cancelled your 10am flight. The alternative they offer on your same connecting ticket is not the 1pm flight. Not even the 4pm flight. No, BA wants you to depart on their 8pm flight…. with 1 or 2 much earlier flights on your route still running… but you are not offered them.

    “Answers on a postcard please” as to the reasons BA is doing this. Hint: None of these reasons is to your own benefit. You don’t have to accept this, nor any earlier flight leaving much earlier if you don’t want to. (There’s a scale of how much earlier is reasonable enough in EU UK 261 but for short haul it’s mostly 1-2 hrs IIRC).

    Ignore what BA offers. Pretend you are a new customer and look online to see what flights BA is running. If there’s a seat being offered then you have a right to it free of charge. Even if it’s a normal seat, and you booked with avios. Call BA when you’ve found a seat on a flight that works for you and don’t let a BA agent tell you the flight is full when you can prove it’s not.

    Rob
    HfP Staff
    2,372 posts

    You absolutely DO get paid out if you arrive earlier – I’ve just banked £430 from BA for this.

    However, if you arrive early your compensation is cut by 50%.

    The reason, of course, is that departing earlier can be just an inconvenient as departing later.

    meta 1,466 posts

    Was it from EU airport to the UK or from the UK to EU?

    As per Dec 2021 ECJ ruling arriving or departing 60 minutes earlier is regarded as cancellation/delay compensation and full amount is due. Since it’s post-Brexit ruling, it doesn’t apply for flights from the UK.

    For OP, it doesn’t apply as he was notified more than 14 days in advance.

    • This reply was modified 54 years, 7 months ago by .
    RobL 72 posts

    Was it from EU airport to the UK or from the UK to EU?

    As per Dec 2021 ECJ ruling arriving or departing 60 minutes earlier is regarded as cancellation/delay compensation and full amount is due. Since it’s post-Brexit ruling, it doesn’t apply for flights from the UK.

    For OP, it doesn’t apply as he was notified more than 14 days in advance.

    Does duty of care apply for arriving 24 hrs earlier? Outside the 14 day notification window?

    JDB 4,850 posts

    Was it from EU airport to the UK or from the UK to EU?

    As per Dec 2021 ECJ ruling arriving or departing 60 minutes earlier is regarded as cancellation/delay compensation and full amount is due. Since it’s post-Brexit ruling, it doesn’t apply for flights from the UK.

    For OP, it doesn’t apply as he was notified more than 14 days in advance.

    Does duty of care apply for arriving 24 hrs earlier? Outside the 14 day notification window?

    What ‘duty of care’ costs are you suggesting might be incurred in this scenario? The airline won’t pay eg for a cancelled hotel night or any compensation for a shortened holiday. Travel insurance could potentially assist.

    RobL 72 posts

    Was it from EU airport to the UK or from the UK to EU?

    As per Dec 2021 ECJ ruling arriving or departing 60 minutes earlier is regarded as cancellation/delay compensation and full amount is due. Since it’s post-Brexit ruling, it doesn’t apply for flights from the UK.

    For OP, it doesn’t apply as he was notified more than 14 days in advance.

    Does duty of care apply for arriving 24 hrs earlier? Outside the 14 day notification window?

    What ‘duty of care’ costs are you suggesting might be incurred in this scenario? The airline won’t pay eg for a cancelled hotel night or any compensation for a shortened holiday. Travel insurance could potentially assist.

    I mean if you have to accept a departure from origin 24 hrs earlier.

    JDB 4,850 posts

    @RobL if you elect a departure 24 hours earlier, I don’t believe the airline will be on the hook for any duty of care costs unless it is a connecting journey whereby the earlier departure is the only option and means you need to stay overnight and incur food costs en route. If you arrive at your destination 24hrs early, that is effectively your choice and your cost.

    meta 1,466 posts

    Outside 14 day period, duty of care might apply in the scenario that you have to arrive to your destination earlier than planned. It will usually be the case on the outbound if the airline decides to have flights only on certain days. In that case, if you chose an earlier departure rather than a later departure, the airline is on the hook for the extra nights until the point they were supposed to get you to your destination.

    I had BA pay out duty of care if I had to leave London early before due to their scheduling of only one or two flights a week and it was also outside 14 day window. It would be unreasonable to expect me to wait 4+ days to depart on my trip if there is a flight a day before and in that case they should pay up for causing me to lengthen my trip. Otherwise I would be within my rights not to use BA flight and book with someone else and BA would be on the hook for the extra amount. It’s a matter of presenting it to BA and making them understand the cost implications.

    • This reply was modified 54 years, 7 months ago by .
    RobL 72 posts

    Some months ago I booked two return Club Europe flights to Copenhagen with BA in September, departing on a Friday on the first flight of the day (07:10) and returning to days later on the Sunday (13:50).

    On last Thursday evening (about 20:30) BA cancelled both flights informing me by email, offering refund or ‘rebook yourself on the next available flight’. Of course the reason for the trip involves pressing commitments which preclude me from departing from LHR later or returning from Copenhagen earlier.

    The only flight alternative offered on the outbound was the evening flight at 20:15 however flights on the previous day offered up three alternatives (10:00, 12:45, and 20:15). I rebooked onto the 10:00 flight.

    The only alternative flight offered on the Sunday for the return was at 07:10 which was unacceptable due to the pressing commitments that are the primary purpose of the trip. Checking the next day’s flights offered up three alternatives (07:15, 13:55, and 16:25). I rebooked onto the 13:55 flight.

    I intend to claim ‘duty of care’ for the two additional hotel nights required and reasonable and appropriate meals. I have added two night onto my already booked hotel stay in the same standard of room.

    I will claim under Article 9 of UK/EU 261 which states:
    1.Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
    (a)meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
    (b)hotel accommodation in cases
    • where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
    • where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;

    I would appreciate views on the best approach to achieve a successful outcome particularly whether this is best made as one claim (for both flights) or two individual claims (for each flight segment).

    • This reply was modified 54 years, 7 months ago by .
    RobL 72 posts

    Some months ago I booked two return Club Europe flights to Copenhagen with BA in September, departing on a Friday on the first flight of the day (07:10) and returning to days later on the Sunday (13:50).

    On last Thursday evening (about 20:30) BA cancelled both flights informing me by email, offering refund or ‘rebook yourself on the next available flight’. Of course the reason for the trip involves pressing commitments which preclude me from departing from LHR later or returning from Copenhagen earlier.

    The only flight alternative offered on the outbound was the evening flight at 20:15 however flights on the previous day offered up three alternatives (10:00, 12:45, and 20:15). I rebooked onto the 10:00 flight.

    The only alternative flight offered on the Sunday for the return was at 07:10 which was unacceptable due to the pressing commitments that are the primary purpose of the trip. Checking the next day’s flights offered up three alternatives (07:15, 13:55, and 16:25). I rebooked onto the 13:55 flight.

    I intend to claim ‘duty of care’ for the two additional hotel nights required and reasonable and appropriate meals. I have added two night onto my already booked hotel stay in the same standard of room.

    I will claim under Article 9 of UK/EU 261 which states:
    1.Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
    (a)meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
    (b)hotel accommodation in cases
    • where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or
    • where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;

    I would appreciate views on the best approach to achieve a successful outcome particularly whether this is best made as one claim (for both flights) or two individual claims (for each flight segment).

    Just as an update / data point. I have just received reimbursement of my expense claim for the above situation. It took a couple of months and a couple of email ‘prompts’ but eventually came through without the need for any escalation.

    I also had a similar situation on another flight about the same time where the Sunday return was cancelled and I had to change to a Monday flight (of my choice). Expense claim for this was also reimbursed, rather more promptly than the CPH flight.

    Expenses claimed were additional hotel nights (in same hotel and room standard) and meals.

    Guidance from this forum was invaluable in putting together the successful claims: particularly including screenshots of the flights offered / available at the time of cancellation as well as quoting relevant legislation.

    Well worth the small effort involved in claiming.

    dmm27 67 posts

    Just to add re- out of pocket expenses, we had a couple of flights cancelled and were provided with earlier flights. In addition to claiming under EU261 (had ~6 days notice of the cancellations) we also successfully claimed the costs of changing car hire, car parking, hotels etc. Used the same form on BA website as for the cancellation claim.

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