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I have a redemption booking for the family from LHR to DOH in October using avios and 2 x companion vouchers. I have received an email from BA saying that the inbound flight (BA122) has been cancelled and offering to move the booking to the earlier BA flight on the same day (BA126). Unfortunately, BA126 is 6.5 hours earlier, departing at 1.25am, which is very difficult with 2 young children. I called customer services to request to be moved to a QR flight instead as there are multiple options at suitable times. I was told that this was not possible as there was a BA flight that day and my options were take the alternative BA flight or cancel the booking.
Is this correct? I thought that transfer to QR was possible for cancelled flights on this route as per Standard Customer Guidelines but I am not sure if this applies to avios bookings. I would appreciate the advice of the forum before I decide what to do.
I “think” you are correct. But I am not sure unfortunately. If you don’t get a response here today that confirms this, I recommend you post again in the morning at about 8am. I think that is when this site is at its busiest so a better chance for more people to see your question and help.
Check in MMB to see what is offered there, and try calling again – multiple times if necessary.
My experience is that regardless of the rules, which I’m not sure about in this situation, different agents will take different views.
You are depending on goodwill not rights here, BA are being entirely reasonable in giving you another flight on the same day on their own metal and do not need to offer yuou QR. You could ask for the later flight on BA the day before or the day after if the earlier BA flight is such a problem, they’d likely give you that subject to seat availability.
BA looks more and more like those holiday airlines that think messing people around from day flight to night flights or flight so ridiculously early the passenger who booked a day flight has to travel overnight to suit the airline, is acceptable.
You don’t strictly have a right to choose which airline or flight for reroute but they are supposed to provide a replacement flight as close as reasonably feasible to the original flight. The CAA has reminded other airlines and BA that flights on other airlines must also be considered in their responsibility to meet this criteria if tbe passenger’s flight is canceled and he does choose the option to travel as close as reasonably possible to his original flight time.
I consider that as close as reasonably feasible must acco.modate reasonableness for both sides not just the airline.
However your best chancw is to HUACA and avoid getting into technicalities as rightky or wrongly they’ll dig their feet in and not help you.
I would suggedt a good approach might be to simply say you arw unable to make any earlier flight due to whatever and request as near to existing flight as posdublw but you are unfortunately unablw to reach the airport eaelier. Research carefully and see which flights they’d then find it easiesr (for tbemselves, not you) and personally I would refrsin from mentioning QR by name as they may tbink that’s all ypu really want.
I have no idea abput your life but it woukd be very difficult most times for me to make any earlier flight as I am always tightky acheduled. Whether it’s need to pi k up ulnetable dsughter from snother location the night before, drop nervous dov at dogsitters at last opening time of dog sitter evening before somewhere else, a late work meeting/ commitment ypu’re obliged to attend, uncertain time of child exit from medical appointmdmt, dependency on transport not able to meet earlier flight timing etc. Simply say you can’t travel earlier and ask what other flight tbey can provide.
Do ypur research first and let them lead.
I appreciate all the advice. MMB only offers the one alternative as per BA’s email. I will call them again to try get something suitable.
@MKC2015, check if any of the said Qatar flights carry a BA code. If they do then note them and call and request seats on BAXXXX without mentioning Qatar Airways at all. They will mot be fooled but just sounds better. HUACA a few times.
To be honest I am not persuaded by your reasoning or that of @LadyLondon in this case. I have not had kids of my own but leaving for airport for a 1.30am flight seems much mire sensible than waking up and going to the airport for one departing at 8am, particularly given the time difference between Qatar and the UK. I read this more that you wanted to fly Qatar rather than BA, and few would blame you for that, particularly in this case where you would also stand to earn avios and TP too. I would be doing the same! However, if you have a genuine preference for time over airline then I apologise for doubting your explanation.
I still believe your chances of getting on QR to be slim, but if I were you I’d definitely be trying a bit more.
@BJ I would honestly prefer to be on the original BA flight that we booked. We have looked at going to Doha before using our companion vouchers but at that time BA only had one flight per day and the times were not practical, so we went elsewhere. Problem now is we are unlikely to find business redemptions in October half term to another destination.
After a week in Doha the kids will be on local time and will be asleep at about 8-8.30pm, so there will likely be multiple tantrums having to get them to and through the airport. They usually wake up at 5-5.30am at home so a little earlier wouldn’t be a problem (that is what we hoped anyway).
As this is a joint revenue route with QR all the QR flights carry a BA flight number too. I actually quoted the BA flight number of a QR alternative when I called them but to no avail.
@BJ is correct. The passenger needs to negotiate the best alternative with BA who may ultimately agree a rerouting on QR but has no obligation to do so and while BA will reroute without hesitation on QR for destinations beyond Doha, different arrangements apply point to point UK-DOH. The position stated above that BA is “supposed to provide a replacement flight as close as reasonably feasible to the original flight” isn’t provided for in the legislation or the CAA’s guidance. A cancellation doesn’t entitle a passenger to go à la carte.
Any assessment of the ‘reasonableness’ of BA’s offer would only come if the passenger bought new tickets and sought to be reimbursed. The question of temporality would come into play and notification of a cancellation at short notice is very different to the instant case where the pax has eight months notice.
One of your rights is to choose re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to your final destination at a later date at your convenience, subject to availability of seats.
The issue is the phrase at the end, subject to availability of seats. This far out there would have to be reward seats on your preferred QR flight. But you also used a companion voucher which can only be used on BA, IB or Aer Lingus metal.
BA would be within their rights to exclude the QR flight because of that.
BA has offered to transfer you to the only other BA operated flight 6 hours earlier – the only other option is to choose the BA flight the following day.
@AJA – I’m not aware of any case law that supports the requirement for reward seats to be available on an alternate flight.
Also, it would appear BA are not offering the following day’s flight(s) on BA metal either. I have limited experience of this, but BA might have a policy of not offering later flights (perhaps to avoid claims for reimbursement/compensation)?
I’d keep with the HUACA routine for another few weeks to secure a day flight before trying something more drastic.
@memesweeper – it’s more nuanced than you suggest. The issue about reward seats being available does indirectly impact rerouting because for a rewards ticket, the receiving airline may not make seats available, so the subject to availability comes into play. Then there’s an issue about the comparability of fare conditions and what fare bucket the receiving airline will accept is used. So while in theory there’s no difference between a cash ticket and a redemption ticket in practical terms and litigated cases (but no binding precedents), there is. This is why on route cancellations, there are so many issues until an agreement can be reached with receiving airlines.
BA will offer earlier or later flights on its own services following a cancellation. QR is rather sensitive about point to point Doha originating or ending seats to/from UK wishing to preserve these seats for high value direct sale or transiting passengers.
The opposing argument is that the cancelling airline could just go and buy a full fare ticket but that’s a burden the legislation doesn’t impose on them and nor is it one an adjudicator or judge would be likely to determine in the passenger’s favour but as always, each case turns on its own facts.
The passenger does have the right to choose to be rerouted on a later date of the passenger’s own choice, or to take a refund or to choose to be rerouted as reasonably close to original flight timing as possible and even some time ahead of the flight, should not be assumed by the airline to be able to take an earlier flight and frankly shouldn’t actually have to justify why he is not in a position to take this significantly earlier flight. In this case for a few reasons significantly earlier in ways the passenger should not be obliged to accept.
Whilst the information you give JDB about there being more to it is interesting it is basically about how the airlines want to work rather than about how they are delivering the rights which the passenger has (because as you describe it, they’re not).
However being practical @memesweeper’s solution is probably the best. Luckily I have a connecting flight out of Doha on BA next month to London. So my origin is not Doha. So if BA messes my flight around too, I won’t have the problem JDB mentions, that it might offend Qatar’s sensibilities if BA’s cancellation of their flight would mean my closest reasonable reroute would be on a Qatar flight. But nor should the passenger originating in Doha be put in that position. As being both booked on BA out of Doha, both I and tbe OP, have the same legal right to rerouting as reasonably close to original flight timing as possible including that flights of other operators should also be taken into account.
@LadyLondon – none of what you say in the post above is incorrect. The problem is that the legislation (and the non binding CAA guidance) is quite deliberately grey/flexible so as to allow for all manner of circumstances and it still works although it’s twenty plus years old.
In order to get an airline consistently to apply the rules as you interpret them would require you to expend a lot of money and then most likely litigate. The outcome would be highly uncertain – the cogency of your arguments vs those of the airline and the judge you get on the day or even their mood. There’s no black and white answer so that judge weighs the facts and makes an essentially unappealable decision. Is the sleep pattern of small children going to swing the case? Possibly, but equally probably not.
Personally, in these conditions I don’t think there’s much point in being purist and adding things into the law which aren’t written. That doesn’t help resolution or carry any sway with BA agents so I would rather focus on working to get the best (or unfortunately, least bad) practical solution.
When there have been long comments under articles following route cancellations it’s very telling which passengers did or didn’t report quick satisfactory solutions. There’s a close correlation between those saying they were demanding, insisting, quoting legislation etc. not getting what they wanted and the more measured posters explaining what they were looking for and asking for help. BA is a big faceless organisation these days, but one is dealing with individuals on the telephone and if they feel they are being bullied are much less likely to help.
Yes, we had agreed on tactics JDB.
We can debate nuances, and what we think should or shouldn’t be the case until the cows come home but at the end of the day it makes no difference. We are constrained by the (mis)interpretation and practices of BA and other airlines, and we have to know our own limits of how much effort we will invest and how much stress we will endure in challenging them if it comes to that. My own limit is low but despite that I feel I have been quite successful for the most part but not always. This is because there is often the potential for some goodwill which is why we should be mindful that it is always easier to catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. To this end, my starting point following some initial pleasantries is always “Let’s try and find a solution that works for both BA and for me”. Going over the top in these discussions should be avoided, it is personally demeaning, and insulting to the agent too, I just always try to keep it light, polite and simple.
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