BA Premium Plus terms and conditions changes

[Mark]

It remains to be seen whether Amex clamp down on these two terms.

1. payments must be made from a personal account in your own name
2. We’ll clarify that the card is for personal use and not to be used for business purposes

If they do, then I can see a lot of card cancellations being made. I’d probably keep one of our cards, hit the £10,000 threshold and then not use it anymore that year.

[Redbull79]

They’ve already clamped down on #1 – for the last few months I’ve had to make a payment from the business to me, then from me to Amex.

Regarding #2, based on experience I’m assuming they will. In which case I’ll switch to the Virgin Mastercard.

#2 is very disappointing.

[Rob]

Under #2 are you not fraudulently getting Section 75 protection for business purchases, which is forbidden?

[NorthernLass]

They’re still accepting debit card payments.

[JDB]

Mark wrote:

It remains to be seen whether Amex clamp down on these two terms.

1. payments must be made from a personal account in your own name
2. We’ll clarify that the card is for personal use and not to be used for business purposes

If they do, then I can see a lot of card cancellations being made. I’d probably keep one of our cards, hit the £10,000 threshold and then not use it anymore that year.

Why do you “see a lot of card cancellations being made” if Amex were to enforce two very basic and obvious terms? How difficult is it and what is the problem with paying the Amex statement from one’s own personal account? They do also say you can arrange eg to pay your wife’s bill. How difficult is it to comply with the long standing basic term about personal use only? The people who can’t or won’t comply may not be the cardholders Amex wants in the future.

Also, it’s a good idea to read the runes; there has been some very clear signalling around all this in recent weeks.

[zapato1060]

I always pay off my wifes account via sort code/account number and 15 digit card number way? Is that frowned upon?

[JDB]

zapato1060 wrote:

I always pay off my wifes account via sort code/account number and 15 digit card number way? Is that frowned upon?

Amex will tell you this is fine but that they should be notified. Their principal concern is to make sure they comply with ‘source of funds’ requirements rather than complicate people’s domestic arrangements and, for some purposes, HMRC also has an interest.

[Mark]

Rob Burgess wrote:

Under #2 are you not fraudulently getting Section 75 protection for business purchases, which is forbidden?

It would only be classed as fraud if you actually claimed section 75 on a business purchase.

For any section 75 claim you need to produce various documents and I’m sure if any of these were in the name of a business rather than the person, the claim would be rejected.

[Mark]

Redbull79 wrote:

They’ve already clamped down on #1 – for the last few months I’ve had to make a payment from the business to me, then from me to Amex.

Regarding #2, based on experience I’m assuming they will. In which case I’ll switch to the Virgin Mastercard.

#2 is very disappointing.

I agree.

I already have the business platinum and virgin mastercard, doesn’t really affect me too much. I can still activate the 241 but will collect avios elsewhere.

But I would hazard a guess that there are 10’s of thousands of ba platinum cards out there used for business use or a mixture of both. That’s where the cancellations will come from.

[favoured]

Also got the changes to terms and conditions. Were these sent out generally to all amex customers or were specific cards targeted?

[ZBG]

I found the email frustrating because it was unclear how and where I could view the revised T&Cs (and the revised rewards T&Cs).

I’m a sole trader using BAPP for personal and business expenses. Is that not allowed?

[JDB]

ZBG wrote:

I found the email frustrating because it was unclear how and where I could view the revised T&Cs (and the revised rewards T&Cs).

I’m a sole trader using BAPP for personal and business expenses. Is that not allowed?

No, the card is already for personal use only. The new terms are simply reinforcing the message.

[philuk]

Got an email today. Interesting to see:
Taxes and duties
We’re adding a new section to explain that you must pay any tax in respect of any Avios you have earned.

[JDB]

philuk wrote:

Got an email today. Interesting to see:
Taxes and duties
We’re adding a new section to explain that you must pay any tax in respect of any Avios you have earned.

This has been mentioned here before. Amex is covering itself in case the taxation of Avios were to change to ensure the cardholder pays rather than the liability falling on to Amex.

[philuk]

@JDB I must have missed that, thanks for clarification!

[jfallesen]

If I travel for my company and use the BAPP to pay for hotel, meals, transport etc., which I then expense to my employer for a refund, is this permitted under #2?

[davefl]

jfallesen wrote:

If I travel for my company and use the BAPP to pay for hotel, meals, transport etc., which I then expense to my employer for a refund, is this permitted under #2?

How would anyone ever know?

[JDB]

davefl wrote:

jfallesen wrote:

If I travel for my company and use the BAPP to pay for hotel, meals, transport etc., which I then expense to my employer for a refund, is this permitted under #2?

How would anyone ever know?

It’s beyond easy for Amex to pick up that pattern of expenditure; whether or not that’s what they will do is another issue.

[yorkieflyer]

JDB wrote:

davefl wrote:

jfallesen wrote:

If I travel for my company and use the BAPP to pay for hotel, meals, transport etc., which I then expense to my employer for a refund, is this permitted under #2?

How would anyone ever know?

It’s beyond easy for Amex to pick up that pattern of expenditure; whether or not that’s what they will do is another issue.

If your employer doesn’t provide you with a company credit card, which many do not where business expenses are only occasional what is one supposed to do?

[JDB]

@yorkieflyer – the key is your use of the word “occasional” which is most unlikely to cause an issue. You will find the Amex corporate card sales team using this reiteration of ‘personal use only’ in their sales pitches.

[yorkieflyer]

JDB wrote:

@yorkieflyer – the key is your use of the word “occasional” which is most unlikely to cause an issue. You will find the Amex corporate card sales team using this reiteration of ‘personal use only’ in their sales pitches.

Whilst you are probably correct in practice, at least historically and obviously the folk taking the p, often business owners with the ability to game the system are presumably the culprits who’ve been the catalyst for the change. It still leaves many folk who perhaps have an overnight business trip once or twice a month with a legitimate concern. Amex do seem to be clamping down recently if we are to believe the stories we believe. I am cautious myself here having been banned by Creation for legitimate use of Curve whilst my other half wasn’t. I recall you saying only dodgy use got you barred, well I didn’t and and I was!

[JDB]

@yorkieflier – we probably have different views on what constitutes ‘dodgy’ but the idea that the Creation closures were directly related to Curve is one of those HfP myths that keep getting repeated and that seems to be confirmed in your household. Creation blocked the use of Curve a month before the closures and weren’t out to exact some retribution for past transactions. The block did however, bring more to the surface other ‘dodgy’ transactions, principally various forms of cash type transactions. [this is what happened at Virgin who initially only imposed cash advance fees on a tiny range of transactions, but has greatly widened that as more MCCs float to the top]. Creation had anyway initiated a review partly hastened by some boasters and discovered the ‘dodgy’ transactions, business use, technical credit limit breaches, people using other people’s accounts etc. which led to the closures of a largish number (small %) of accounts, many of whom had never used a Curve card and equally, many who did use Curve retained their accounts.

Amex is under a fair bit of pressure from various quarters to tighten up and there are probably more dominoes to fall.

[yorkieflyer]

JDB I have stated this before and frankly am exasperated by your unwillingness to listen to evidence that contradicts your opinion. To be clear, as I stated before, I did not use my creation card for cash like transactions.No HMRC, premium bonds, settling other balances, anything. Also I only had the IHG white card so wasn’t collecting free hotel nights. Anyway I shan’t bother commenting further on this as your mind is clearly closed on the matter.

[nycvisa]

I recently got an email from Amex regarding an upcoming change of T&C. It read as if going forward annual membership fees will not be refunded pro rata, i.e. if i got the BA Platinum and hit the voucher in month 3 and wanted to cancel, they would still keep the entire annual membership fee. Did anyone else read it the same way?

[stevenhp1987]

@nycvisa, yup. https://www.headforpoints.com/2023/06/19/no-more-pro-rata-fee-refunds-for-uk-american-express-cardholders/