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Forums Frequent flyer programs British Airways Executive Club BAEC – Iberia flights accrual Elite bonus devaluation

  • NealMK 4 posts

    BAEC Gold. Last flight LHR-MAD only posted 378 Avios.

    Previously, you get 100% bonus based on the actual distance of the flight. Now, you seem to get 100% bonus based on what your fare class earns on Iberia flights. See below comparison on LHR-MAD between a BA flight and an IB flight:

    London (LHR) to Madrid (MAD) on British Airways each-way
    Class Avios Tier Points
    Economy lowest (Q, O, G)
    983
    5
    Economy low (K, L, M, N, S, V)
    1179
    10
    Economy flexible (Y, B, H)
    1572
    20
    Business lowest (R, I)
    1965
    40
    Business flexible (J, C, D)
    2751
    40

    ———-

    London (LHR) to Madrid (MAD) on Iberia each-way
    Class Avios Tier Points
    Economy lowest (Q, O, A)
    394
    5
    Economy low (K, M, L, F, V, S, Z, N, G)
    786
    10
    Economy flexible (Y, B, H)
    1572
    20
    Business lowest (R, I)
    1965
    40
    Business flexible (J, C, D)
    2751
    40

    —————-

    Another sneaky devaluation of BAEC …

    BA Flyer IHG Stayer 1,844 posts

    What was the flight number on your booking?

    As explained to me a long time ago by BAEC when I queried getting fewer avios than I expected –

    If on the BA number then you earn the BA avios as per the TP calculator.

    If on the IB number then you earn the IB avios

    Londonsteve 174 posts

    I’ve just received 283 as BAEC Silver for a MAD-LGW sector with an IB flight number and IB Express metal. I’m surprised it’s so low, much less than I’d have received had I flown with a BA flight number. I received over 1000 for the BA flight to Malaga. This rather takes away my future appetite to fly on IB cash tickets.

    PB2 159 posts

    This discrepancy between how the BAEC system applies the elite bonus to Iberia flights has been the case for some time, it certainly existed last year. BA being more generous and giving 100% of the base Avios (distance in miles), even if you have a super cheap economy fare that on it’s own only earns say 25% of base miles (so you’d get 125% of distance flown) – whereas for Iberia flights, the 100% bonus is 100% again of what your fare earns with no status (so in the above example, 25% twice so 50% of distance flown). My examples above being for a BAEC Gold. Finnair flights work the same as Iberia flights when credited to BAEC if I recall. Incidentally, before they moved to revenue based earning, Iberia Plus applied the elite bonus to flights credited to them, the same way as BAEC handles iberia flights – so perhaps it was just copied across. Once you get to tickets where base Avios is 1x distance flown or greater, before any extra for status, they apply the same in BAEC – eg. Even if ticket is 1.5x base miles in business, a 100% bonus is 100% of miles flown whether a BA or Iberia flight – no longer a doubling of miles accrued from the ticket alone. The wording is “100% extra” Avios for gold members (in my examples) – the application of which is inconsistent, either between airlines or also fare types.

    mikeuy 24 posts

    This discrepancy between how the BAEC system applies the elite bonus to Iberia flights has been the case for some time, it certainly existed last year. BA being more generous and giving 100% of the base Avios (distance in miles), even if you have a super cheap economy fare that on it’s own only earns say 25% of base miles (so you’d get 125% of distance flown) – whereas for Iberia flights, the 100% bonus is 100% again of what your fare earns with no status (so in the above example, 25% twice so 50% of distance flown). My examples above being for a BAEC Gold. Finnair flights work the same as Iberia flights when credited to BAEC if I recall. Incidentally, before they moved to revenue based earning, Iberia Plus applied the elite bonus to flights credited to them, the same way as BAEC handles iberia flights – so perhaps it was just copied across. Once you get to tickets where base Avios is 1x distance flown or greater, before any extra for status, they apply the same in BAEC – eg. Even if ticket is 1.5x base miles in business, a 100% bonus is 100% of miles flown whether a BA or Iberia flight – no longer a doubling of miles accrued from the ticket alone. The wording is “100% extra” Avios for gold members (in my examples) – the application of which is inconsistent, either between airlines or also fare types.

    So you mean that if you fly business (1.5x base miles) and let’s say you’re Silver BAEC. Instead of getting a 50% bonus of the miles you would’ve got without status (1.5x) you will just get a 50% bonus of the 1x miles? That would mean you’re gettin the same avios with or without status.

    PB2 159 posts

    Hi. No, you will still get something extra for holding status when crediting IB, or BA of course, flights to BAEC (not with all OW airlines though). So just looking at BAEC. Let’s say a route is 1000 miles.

    With the lowest economy fare bucket you would earn let’s say 25% before any adjustments for having status.

    If a BA flight number, a silver member would get the initial 250 plus 500 (50% of the distance extra) = 750.
    If an IB flight number, a silver member would get again the initial 250, but then “50% extra” (of what you receive with no status) so 125 = 375.

    But, once you get to any fare bucket where no status already earns 1x distance flown or more, the distinction ends.

    Let’s take a business fare bucket offering 1.5x distance flown before status. BA flight number would earn 1500 initially, plus 500 (the 50% extra is still just 50% extra of the distance – so consistent with the cheap economy example). So 150% plus 50%, x2 (of the distance).

    An IB flight number would earn again the initial 1500 – and if they followed the logic from earlier would add 50% extra of Avios received, so 750 on top – but instead once the fare bucket gives 1x or more Avios based on distance flown, there is no distinction between BA or IB as to how they credit in BAEC. In this case the Iberia flight would also earn the 1500 plus 500 for being silver, I.e x2 (of the distance).

    You can compare say MAD LHR on the BA Avios calculator, between BA and IB operated.

    mikeuy 24 posts

    Hi. No, you will still get something extra for holding status when crediting IB, or BA of course, flights to BAEC (not with all OW airlines though). So just looking at BAEC. Let’s say a route is 1000 miles.

    With the lowest economy fare bucket you would earn let’s say 25% before any adjustments for having status.

    If a BA flight number, a silver member would get the initial 250 plus 500 (50% of the distance extra) = 750.
    If an IB flight number, a silver member would get again the initial 250, but then “50% extra” (of what you receive with no status) so 125 = 375.

    But, once you get to any fare bucket where no status already earns 1x distance flown or more, the distinction ends.

    Let’s take a business fare bucket offering 1.5x distance flown before status. BA flight number would earn 1500 initially, plus 500 (the 50% extra is still just 50% extra of the distance – so consistent with the cheap economy example). So 150% plus 50%, x2 (of the distance).

    An IB flight number would earn again the initial 1500 – and if they followed the logic from earlier would add 50% extra of Avios received, so 750 on top – but instead once the fare bucket gives 1x or more Avios based on distance flown, there is no distinction between BA or IB as to how they credit in BAEC. In this case the Iberia flight would also earn the 1500 plus 500 for being silver, I.e x2 (of the distance).

    You can compare say MAD LHR on the BA Avios calculator, between BA and IB operated.

    Thanks, i understand now how it works (i’m new to flying and BAEC).

    I just started this year and got to silver pretty fast (flying business for work reasons).

    To be honest, the bonus from status is much lower than i anticipated. For my work i usually do Buenos Aires – London (so 7000 miles approx) in business class.

    So 10000 avios without status, and only gonna get 13500 now that i’m silver (50% of 7000 miles flown bonus).

    I honestly was hoping to get 50% bonus of the 10000 which is the amount i would’ve got flying business without status. So the “50% more” or “100% more” avios is a little deceiving in my opinion.

    To be fair, the way the system works, you would benefit more on the bonus from status if you’re flying the cheapest economy for example, as you explained it.

    What i realize now is that if you fly the same route on businness regularly, would be worth it to travel on an Iberia flight instead of BA, and claim the avios on Iberia Plus program, as they’ll give you avios on a spent-based system and it will be much more than with the miles-flown from ba.

    Thank you mate

    PB2 159 posts

    It’s definitely confusing when the BAEC Avios system interprets “50% extra” in 2 different ways. I agree, the natural way to read it is that you’d earn “50% more” than without your silver card. Avios bonus aside, silver comes with some nice benefits – though you’d enjoy those if flying business anyway as part of your ticket.

    The iberia move to revenue based earning is widely seen as a negative step but if your company is paying high cash fares perhaps it would work out better. I think the revenue system is only for iberia operated flights though, so via MAD – if you flew with BA from London I have a feeling they won’t know what you paid so revert to the distance system like BA, even when crediting to IB+.

    mikeuy 24 posts

    It’s definitely confusing when the BAEC Avios system interprets “50% extra” in 2 different ways. I agree, the natural way to read it is that you’d earn “50% more” than without your silver card. Avios bonus aside, silver comes with some nice benefits – though you’d enjoy those if flying business anyway as part of your ticket.

    The iberia move to revenue based earning is widely seen as a negative step but if your company is paying high cash fares perhaps it would work out better. I think the revenue system is only for iberia operated flights though, so via MAD – if you flew with BA from London I have a feeling they won’t know what you paid so revert to the distance system like BA, even when crediting to IB+.


    @PB2
    I was checking all this on the Calculator but either the BAEC calculator is wrong or there’s some cases that this applies different.

    Please check for example: Buenos Aires – Madrid on the Calc for both British airways or Iberia Flights, for example economist lowest not giving 25% but instead 50% of miles flown, same as economy low. And also the avios bonus for tier status seems to be the same for IB or BA flights on this example (according to the calculator), what do you think?

    gtellez 161 posts

    Hi. No, you will still get something extra for holding status when crediting IB, or BA of course, flights to BAEC (not with all OW airlines though). So just looking at BAEC. Let’s say a route is 1000 miles.

    With the lowest economy fare bucket you would earn let’s say 25% before any adjustments for having status.

    If a BA flight number, a silver member would get the initial 250 plus 500 (50% of the distance extra) = 750.
    If an IB flight number, a silver member would get again the initial 250, but then “50% extra” (of what you receive with no status) so 125 = 375.

    But, once you get to any fare bucket where no status already earns 1x distance flown or more, the distinction ends.

    Let’s take a business fare bucket offering 1.5x distance flown before status. BA flight number would earn 1500 initially, plus 500 (the 50% extra is still just 50% extra of the distance – so consistent with the cheap economy example). So 150% plus 50%, x2 (of the distance).

    An IB flight number would earn again the initial 1500 – and if they followed the logic from earlier would add 50% extra of Avios received, so 750 on top – but instead once the fare bucket gives 1x or more Avios based on distance flown, there is no distinction between BA or IB as to how they credit in BAEC. In this case the Iberia flight would also earn the 1500 plus 500 for being silver, I.e x2 (of the distance).

    You can compare say MAD LHR on the BA Avios calculator, between BA and IB operated.

    Thanks, i understand now how it works (i’m new to flying and BAEC).

    I just started this year and got to silver pretty fast (flying business for work reasons).

    To be honest, the bonus from status is much lower than i anticipated. For my work i usually do Buenos Aires – London (so 7000 miles approx) in business class.

    So 10000 avios without status, and only gonna get 13500 now that i’m silver (50% of 7000 miles flown bonus).

    I honestly was hoping to get 50% bonus of the 10000 which is the amount i would’ve got flying business without status. So the “50% more” or “100% more” avios is a little deceiving in my opinion.

    To be fair, the way the system works, you would benefit more on the bonus from status if you’re flying the cheapest economy for example, as you explained it.

    What i realize now is that if you fly the same route on businness regularly, would be worth it to travel on an Iberia flight instead of BA, and claim the avios on Iberia Plus program, as they’ll give you avios on a spent-based system and it will be much more than with the miles-flown from ba.

    Thank you mate

    Unless you are paying for super expensive tickets, better to credit the flights to BA. Just to give you an example, my wife is BA Silver and I am IB Oro (both OW Sapphire). We are flying next month NCL-LHR-MAD-LIM one way in business (class J first flight, then D the other two). Each ticket cost slightly above £2k, so hardly a bargain for one way. MMB is showing around 21k avios (based on distance) for my wife and IB website is showing around 18k avios for me (based on £££).
    The main problem with IB revenue based system is that it excludes taxes and fees, usually a big part of business class fares (think on UK ADP).
    Another example, next month I’m flying MAN-LHR-MAD and MAD-MAN in business with an IB number (mix of BA, IB and IB express) and I’m getting less than 2.5k avios, the ticket cost almost £400. I would have got significantly more avios crediting it to BA.
    Finally, think about Status, it is significantly harder to get/renew with IB vs BA, mainly because BA considers long haul flight over 2k miles, while IB puts the threshold at 3k miles. In short haul BA gives the same amount of TP in business for domestic routes than most EU routes (40 TP) and that is not the case in IB (it is distance based).
    Now, you would ask, why the hell I am still crediting my flights to IB? I have thought about changing many times, but because I used to live in Madrid, I started my status/loyalty journey with IB. Then, when I arrived to the UK, I already had status with them and now I am in a hamster wheel and don’t want to start from scratch.

    PB2 159 posts

    It’s definitely confusing when the BAEC Avios system interprets “50% extra” in 2 different ways. I agree, the natural way to read it is that you’d earn “50% more” than without your silver card. Avios bonus aside, silver comes with some nice benefits – though you’d enjoy those if flying business anyway as part of your ticket.

    The iberia move to revenue based earning is widely seen as a negative step but if your company is paying high cash fares perhaps it would work out better. I think the revenue system is only for iberia operated flights though, so via MAD – if you flew with BA from London I have a feeling they won’t know what you paid so revert to the distance system like BA, even when crediting to IB+.



    @PB2
    I was checking all this on the Calculator but either the BAEC calculator is wrong or there’s some cases that this applies different.

    Please check for example: Buenos Aires – Madrid on the Calc for both British airways or Iberia Flights, for example economist lowest not giving 25% but instead 50% of miles flown, same as economy low. And also the avios bonus for tier status seems to be the same for IB or BA flights on this example (according to the calculator), what do you think?

    So EZE MAD is considered as 6259 miles distance.

    Obviously BA don’t fly the route but you could end up with a BA flight number on it perhaps. For BA, yes, the cheapest fare buckets post at 25% distance before status. For iberia fight numbers credited to BAEC, which is more likely, yep it appears Economy lowest Q,O,A all give 50% of miles flown. On the website before you actually get to the calculator, if you scroll down to “other airlines” and iberia, it states that these fares should earn 25% with iberia, so not sure what’s going on here. The calculator does show errors from time to time.

    As for the elite bonus. I think that logic holds.

    BA flight number. Economy lowest, 1565 miles plus silver bonus of 50% flown (6259/2 = 3130) = 4695.

    Iberia flight number. Starting with the (wrong?) 3130 in economy lowest. Your 50% silver bonus is still not 50% of what flown (6259/2 = 3130) but 50% of your base 3130 (1565) and calculator shows 4695.

    So based on actual distance flown, in this instance BA apply 25% base and 50% bonus, and iberia apply 50% base (probably an error) and 25% bonus (50% of what you earnt which is equivalent to 25% of actual distance, 50% of 50%). So for different reasons both get to 75%.

    If you take Economy low as silver – BA pay the correct 3130 base plus half what flown so now 50% and 50% = 6260.

    Iberia economy low gives the correct 3130 base plus their 50% of what earnt so again only 4695.

    As you get to fares with an initial earning of 100% distance flown or more, they’re identical as discussed previously.

    So unless I’m missing something, aside from the apparent calculator error for iberia economy low, the principle difference between how BAEC handles the elite bonus for cheap Economy fares between IB and BA flight numbers still applies, for the EZE MAD example.

    mikeuy 24 posts

    Thanks mate @PB2, you’re right again, the apparent error on the economy avios for Iberia confused me, but as you say, the same logic still applies apart from that.

    I’d like to ask you something unrelated to this thread but it’s about Avios value as i can see you understand this much more than me but i don’t want to turn this thread into a private conv. Not sure why but it seems i’m not allowed to send a private message? Is there any other way i can contact you?

    Thank you

    PB2 159 posts

    No probs – there’s certainly more knowledgeable people on here than me. Perhaps ask in a new topic/thread and I can chip in along with others?

    mikeuy 24 posts

    No probs – there’s certainly more knowledgeable people on here than me. Perhaps ask in a new topic/thread and I can chip in along with others?

    Thing is either i’m missing something or this is too good to be true:

    I’m looking on Iberia website travel from Buenos Aires to Madrid and it shows me this:

    Iberia

    First row shows prices for outbound and return in Business Class and second one same flight for Economy class.

    How can those prices be right? That flight would cost $5k for business class and 1.6k for economy at minimum.

    With the first row, with only 20k avios i’m getting the price from 5k to 1.8k which is ridiculous high value for avios.

    Second row (economy) price going down from 1.6k without avios to $600 with only 13k avios? Still too good tbt.

    Can you tell me what i’m missing here? Thanks-

    PB2 159 posts

    Iberia have very reasonable reward pricing, and low taxes and fees. So yeah, happy days if you can find availability on your dates. I believe you also have flexibility up to 24h before for a full refund with small admin fee.

    mikeuy 24 posts

    Iberia have very reasonable reward pricing, and low taxes and fees. So yeah, happy days if you can find availability on your dates. I believe you also have flexibility up to 24h before for a full refund with small admin fee.

    Thanks for your answer @PB2 i still think something is off here, sadly i can’t confirm it because i’m still waiting my Iberia account to be 90 days so i can transfer my Avios from BAEC to iberia.

    In that picture that i uploaded, wouldn’t make sense to use the less amount of avios an the rest in cash? Let’s say i have 60k avios on my account.

    Why would i use 60k avios + $800 for a business flight that cost $5k when i can use only 20k avios + $1800, and use that for 3 different travels. I’m still reducing the ticket cost from 5k to 1.8, so at least 3k with only 20k avios per time i do this. Which is 10x more the value that i see you get from avios on BAEC. Correct me if i’m wrong. Maybe @Rob can also tell me if my reasoning is off.

    Not only this, if those prices are correct, what’s stopping me from always buying Avios directly from Iberia/BA and using 20k avios which cost $500 to reduce the price of the ticket 2-3k?? Something doesn’t make sense?

    Thanks!

    PB2 159 posts

    You can probably get the identical iberia reward flight availability and pricing in BAEC, save you doing the transfer – just the cash element probably payable in GBP instead of EUR.

    Instead of calculating Avios value vs the cash price of a ticket (and be aware single cash tickets usually more than a return cash ticket), consider 1 Avios worth about 1p (GBP) – that’s probably the better way to decide what is the best value option to choose.

    You can buy Avios and do exactly this, for about 1p or less – so long as there is availability on your dates and with high cash fares, it’s a smart option. Don’t forget reward flights don’t earn Avios or count towards any airline status.

    mikeuy 24 posts

    You can probably get the identical iberia reward flight availability and pricing in BAEC, save you doing the transfer – just the cash element probably payable in GBP instead of EUR.

    Instead of calculating Avios value vs the cash price of a ticket (and be aware single cash tickets usually more than a return cash ticket), consider 1 Avios worth about 1p (GBP) – that’s probably the better way to decide what is the best value option to choose.

    You can buy Avios and do exactly this, for about 1p or less – so long as there is availability on your dates and with high cash fares, it’s a smart option. Don’t forget reward flights don’t earn Avios or count towards any airline status.

    – I was never able to find a reward flight in BAEC, always got the same message: Error
    There was a problem with your request, please try again later. So impossible for me to be sure if i can book the same in BAEC.

    – From what i read on this website, the usual value would be 10000 avios = 100 GBP correct? You’re saying 1 avios would be equal to 1 pound or 1 cent?

    If my math it’s not wrong, in the examples iberia is showing me, for the economy flight (remember the picture i uploaded it’s for both, outbound and return flight): 13k avios = $1000 (GPB 800) so x8 that value (in case that 1avios = 1 cent).

    For the business example: 20k avios it’s reducing my ticket flight 3k (GPB 2400) which is x12 the value, meaning 20k avios are giving me GPB 2400 instead of 200 GPB.

    So is it that my math is completely wrong? Or this flights are giving you a ‘crazy high nonsense’ value for the Avios?

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