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BA have just offered to settle my claim for a hotel night at LHR due to a denied boarding claim and want my bank details via email reply. Is this safe to put my bank details on.
I was also claiming E261 as because of the ticketing issue we arrived back from Miami into Manchester 19 hours late and travelled the last leg in economy LHR-MAN. The email makes no mention of E261, it just says that because of the ticketing issue and late arrival they will put 10k avios into my account. No mention of the E261. Do I need to claim this elsewhere. This seems rather mean. This was a one way booking using BAP companion voucher
Any thoughts would be apprecaited
Are you claiming for denied boarding or the delay? EU/UK261 makes separate provision for these. You need to be really clear about what you’re claiming for.
https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/denied-boarding/
The denied boarding and resulting delay are one integral claim; you don’t get two sets of compensation unless the flight you were rebooked onto was itself delayed based on the actual arrival time of that flight. The denied boarding compensation sum operates like a cancellation, so depends on the scheduled time of the flight they rebook you onto, with the important difference that unlike a cancellation there is no ‘extraordinary circumstances’ get out for denied boarding.
In this instance, BA probably isn’t treating your ticketing issue as a case of denied boarding and whether they should depends on the circumstances. As @NorthernLass says, you have to be sure to be asking for the right thing, otherwise you make it easy for BA either to ignore your claim or simply deny it on the basis you weren’t eligible for the compensation you wrongly asked for.
If you tell us a bit more, we might be able to offer the Houdini answer!
Are you claiming for denied boarding or the delay? EU/UK261 makes separate provision for these. You need to be really clear about what you’re claiming for.
https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/denied-boarding/
Thanks NL
To be honest I was not sure how to make the claim as we were delayed because we could not board the MAD-LHR flight because of the boarding pass had not been ticketed not because the flights were delayed.
I put all the details above onto one form for both my wife and I with our BA Nos on. At first I did try to fill out two seperate forms but they made no sense as non of the flights we travelled on were late, we were delayed due to BA not ticketing one of the legs even though we were issued with boarding passes in MIA The leg that was not ticketed correctly was the MAD-LHR, which caused us to be hanging around Madrid airport for 10 hours while BA issued new tickets for later flights to LHR and onto MAN.
Sorry for the ramblings I just find it hard to explain.
How much has BA offered to pay you?
As for giving bank details over email that’s OK. Or if you prefer you can add a message to your claim on the BA website. That’s assuming you have an 8 digit case number.
If you tell us a bit more, we might be able to offer the Houdini answer!
Thank you JDB Could you please tell what information you need.
How much has BA offered to pay you?
As for giving bank details over email that’s OK. Or if you prefer you can add a message to your claim on the BA website. That’s assuming you have an 8 digit case number.
Firstly sorry I just pressed the report button.
They have offered us what we paid for the Sofitel hotel £156 plus I received 10k avios into my account.
Thanks
I’m finding it hard to follow what happened, but 10k Avios is pretty derisory.
No problem re the reporting my comment. I agree with @PeteM that what BA has offered is too little. You should really be getting £520 per passenger for the long delayed arrival at LHR. After all it was BA’s fault they didn’t ticket you and you were on a longhaul flight connecting to a short-haul.
I think I’d log into the claim give my bank for repayment of the hotel – treat that as right to care. But also reply stating that you are missing the £520 each for delayed arrival.
Either that or just create a new claim for the delayed arrival. In that claim you could mention in a note that you’ve received reimbursement of expenses under ref12345678
I’m finding it hard to follow what happened, but 10k Avios is pretty derisory.
Sorry, I will stat again
We booked avios flights in business using BAP voucher for MIA-MAD-LHR-MAN ( MIA-MAD-LHR on IB LHR-MAN on BA ) all on a 125 ticket.
We checked in at MIA and were issued with bording passes for the MIA-MAD and the MAD-LHR flights which were both on IB we were advised to pick up the LHR-MAN boarding passes at Heathrow.
We boarded he MIA-MAD flight with no issues
On arrival in Madrid we tried to board the MAD-LHR flight the boarding pass beeped and the agent said we would have to contact BA ( the ticket issuer) as there was a problem with the ticket and we would not be travelling on this flight.
It was over 2 hours of calling BA and the call dropping before I got to talk to an agent. She then booked us on the only available flights that day MAD-LHR 2010 in club and LHR-MAN in economy the next day at 0705 and advised us to claim for the hotel in London when we were home.All the original flights we had booked showed in manage my booking and we had seats reserved and I had contacted BA with all the details of my electric scooter. No explanation has been offered by BA for the ticketing issue despite numerous requests.
Hope this helps
I’d definitely be pushing for a lot more than the 10k Avios, but suspect you may fall into an IB/BA buck-passing show if you try and push for proper denied boarding compensation…
I’d definitely be pushing for a lot more than the 10k Avios, but suspect you may fall into an IB/BA buck-passing show if you try and push for proper denied boarding compensation…
I have already had the Buck passing. The first reply to the claim was BA advising me to contact IB
@xcalx – thank you that’s a bit clearer now but I have to admit that I haven’t yet been involved in a denied boarding claim for one flight in the middle of a long haul journey and I’m not sure how that should be treated; I can’t find any precedents. It could be like downgrade compensation in that it relates to the individual sector, however, that doesn’t feel right so I would be pushing for the £520. The problem is that strictly speaking, if that compensation is due, Iberia is the responsible party for the purposes of EC261. I’m surprised BA paid the hotel because again that is also Iberia’s responsibility.
The problem is that Iberia is impossible to deal with and don’t participate in ADR – you usually have to take them to court to get compensation, so I would press the matter with BA.
If they challenge this, you need to say that you contracted with BA, held a BA issued ticket and Iberia were acting as their agent and those agents failed to transport you for your final (BA) flight in the schedule resulting in an overall delayed arrival time of 19 hours for which you seek compensation of £520 per person pursuant to the schedule at Article 7 of EC261. The problem was, per BA’s agent, Iberia created by an administrative failure of BA, wrongly or not ticketing the itinerary. [Iberia must have seen this in Miami, so it’s quite annoying they didn’t get it fixed then]. You can remind BA that Article 13 provides for exactly this situation to prevent passengers being passed back and forth between two airlines. You can tell BA that while this is a slightly complex or unusual it won’t be difficult for an adjudicator or judge presented with this set of facts to apply the rules to give you the right outcome following the 19 hour delay created by BA’s error. Given them 14 days to confirm payment. If they still won’t pay, post again for next steps!
@xcalx – thank you that’s a bit clearer now but I have to admit that I haven’t yet been involved in a denied boarding claim for one flight in the middle of a long haul journey and I’m not sure how that should be treated; I can’t find any precedents. It could be like downgrade compensation in that it relates to the individual sector, however, that doesn’t feel right so I would be pushing for the £520. The problem is that strictly speaking, if that compensation is due, Iberia is the responsible party for the purposes of EC261. I’m surprised BA paid the hotel because again that is also Iberia’s responsibility.
The problem is that Iberia is impossible to deal with and don’t participate in ADR – you usually have to take them to court to get compensation, so I would press the matter with BA.
If they challenge this, you need to say that you contracted with BA, held a BA issued ticket and Iberia were acting as their agent and those agents failed to transport you for your final (BA) flight in the schedule resulting in an overall delayed arrival time of 19 hours for which you seek compensation of £520 per person pursuant to the schedule at Article 7 of EC261. The problem was, per BA’s agent, Iberia created by an administrative failure of BA, wrongly or not ticketing the itinerary. [Iberia must have seen this in Miami, so it’s quite annoying they didn’t get it fixed then]. You can remind BA that Article 13 provides for exactly this situation to prevent passengers being passed back and forth between two airlines. You can tell BA that while this is a slightly complex or unusual it won’t be difficult for an adjudicator or judge presented with this set of facts to apply the rules to give you the right outcome following the 19 hour delay created by BA’s error. Given them 14 days to confirm payment. If they still won’t pay, post again for next steps!
Thank you so much for taking the time to give me such a detailed reply. I will respond to the reply I received from BA Thanking them for the hotel payment offer and asking them for the £520 per person for the 19 hr delay under EC261. Does this wording seem right. Thank you
@xcalc – it’s not quite right. It is denied boarding compensation you are seeking, because your booked flights themselves weren’t delayed. So I would phrase it along the lines : Thank you for settling the Article 9 Duty of Care expenses occasioned by my disrupted journey and the ex gratia payment of 10,000 Avios. However, the £520 x 2 payment of Denied Boarding Compensation in accordance with Article 3 of EC261 has been overlooked. Owing to a negligent administrative or ticketing error by BA, a matter entirely within the airline’s control, we were denied boarding in Madrid which ultimately caused us to arrive at our destination 19 hours after the originally scheduled time. The facts of this case are indisputable and the causative link of BA’s error leading to the 19 hour delay is established beyond peradventure. The events fall squarely within the terms of Article 3 of EC261 read in conjunction with the Interpretative Guidelines. I would therefore ask you to pay the sum of £520 per passenger, total £1040, as set out in the compensation schedule at Article 7 of EC261, such sum to be paid within 14 days failing which proceedings will be issued in the County Court or a complaint lodged with CEDR without further reference to yourselves. I am sure you recognise that, in view of the simple facts of this case, a judge or adjudicator would unhesitatingly award this sum, so trust that you will not waste BA’s and my time and costs by failing to settle the matter without resorting to litigation.
@xcalc – perhaps, in order to see off any attempt to fob you off on Iberia, I would add that, for the avoidance of doubt this claim is being made to BA as the contracting and ticketing airline as the error was caused by BA and cannot be attributed to Iberia as the operating carrier. In any event, Article 13 explicitly provides the ability for BA to claim from IB if that were justified.
Neither a court nor an adjudicator will treat any attempt to send the passenger to Iberia to thwart a legitimate contractual and/or EC261 claim for negligent acts committed by BA very sympathetically.
@xcalc – perhaps, in order to see off any attempt to fob you off on Iberia, I would add that, for the avoidance of doubt this claim is being made to BA as the contracting and ticketing airline as the error was caused by BA and cannot be attributed to Iberia as the operating carrier. In any event, Article 13 explicitly provides the ability for BA to claim from IB if that were justified.
Neither a court nor an adjudicator will treat any attempt to send the passenger to Iberia to thwart a legitimate contractual and/or EC261 claim for negligent acts committed by BA very sympathetically.
You have been so generous with your time and expertise, I really can’t thank you enough. I will update you with BA’s response
A really quick update from BA. They have refused the claim. At least I have an answer about the ticketing issue, they are claiming a ticketing fee payment failure. I have had a look back and have an eticket receipt showing the taxes and fees charged, I also checked the amex account and the payment was made. I also saw an email from BA some months after the reservation was made asking me to contact them re the booking which I will have done, the only calls to BA I can remember were regarding my scooter battery and one re a change of a flight time that made it too short for a connection and they put us on a later flight.
Dear Mr
An update from British Airways
Many thanks for sending your bank details. I’ve raised a bank transfer for £156.00 to your bank account.You must give at least 28 days before this relevant transfer takes place. Just to make you aware, if you respond to this email within the next 48-72 hours, it may cause a delay in your payment being.
Regarding your EU compensation, we’re sorry you remain unhappy with the outcome of your claim and we understand why you needed to get back in contact with us about this. I’ve had another look at your claim for compensation and I’ve taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date. Based on this, our decision hasn’t changed and the response you’ve received about the eligibility of your compensation claim are correct. This means you won’t receive any further responses from us about this claim. You are not be eligible for denied boarding compensation due to a ticketing payment fee failure.
You can refer your complaint to the Centre for Effective Dispute Resolution (CEDR) for an independent decision to be made. CEDR is an independent dispute resolution provider, certified by the Civil Aviation Authority, to adjudicate disputes between airlines and their passengers which haven’t been resolved through the airline’s own complaints procedure.
You can find out how to refer your complaint to CEDR by visiting their website: https://www.cedr.com
Please note that the scope of the adjudication scheme is limited and it could be that your complaint falls outside of it. If you choose to contact CEDR, they’ll be able to advise you if they’re able to deal with your complaint.
If your claim falls within the scope of the CEDR Scheme Rules and your application to CEDR is accepted, any previous offer of settlement made by British Airways will be withdrawn. If the application is taken to adjudication, the adjudicator’s decision will be final.
Thanks again for contacting us.
Best regards
For safety, why not address the claim to UK addresses of BA and Iberia jointly and also name them both jointly on CEDR or MCOL, as who you’re claiming against?
That way everyone who could be responsible is covered, and it’s up to the CEDR adjudicator or MCOL judge to decide who’s liable?
I’m actually a bit surprised BA is denying this claim – unless you really should be claiming for your late arrival on the whole journey back as a delay, rather than for denied boarding – a technicality BA won’t advise you on even if their defence will rely on it.
As they did let you onto your first flight on the journey back, so strictly speaking not a denied boarding at that point. Having boarded your first flight on the overall journey on time, for me that is the point from which you were entitled to expect your ultimate arrival at your final ticketed destination in the UK, to be at the ticketed time. And for me that overrides the issue of denied boarding on a later shorthaul part of your itinerary (and is more profitable – as no question about partial shorthaul if your claim concerns delay to the overall journey landing time.)
PS I’d consider the 10k avios to be about right for thebshorthaul downgrade to Y. As you can only clim very very paltry compo for downgrade on shorthaul especially as part of a longer ticket, the avios is worth more.
My very personal view is that if you go to CEDR BA will look to get it thrown out because it was an IB issue. No harm trying, though, @JDB has basically written the submission for you.
If that fails and you go to MCOL, BA will look to do the same again. When you then try IB you’ll likely get nowhere.
Depends on how tenacious you want to be…
I am also a bit unclear as to what “a ticketing payment fee failure” means…?
For safety, why not address the claim to UK addresses of BA and Iberia jointly and also name them both jointly on CEDR or MCOL, as who you’re claiming against?
That way everyone who could be responsible is covered, and it’s up to the CEDR adjudicator or MCOL judge to decide who’s liable?
I’m actually a bit surprised BA is denying this claim – unless you really should be claiming for your late arrival on the whole journey back as a delay, rather than for denied boarding – a technicality BA won’t advise you on even if their defence will rely on it.
As they did let you onto your first flight on the journey back, so strictly speaking not a denied boarding at that point. Having boarded your first flight on the overall journey on time, for me that is the point from which you were entitled to expect your ultimate arrival at your final ticketed destination in the UK, to be at the ticketed time. And for me that overrides the issue of denied boarding on a later shorthaul part of your itinerary (and is more profitable – as no question about partial shorthaul if your claim concerns delay to the overall journey landing time.)
PS I’d consider the 10k avios to be about right for thebshorthaul downgrade to Y. As you can only clim very very paltry compo for downgrade on shorthaul especially as part of a longer ticket, the avios is worth more.
Thanks LL
I will take some time tomorrow to checkout CEDR to see whats involved, it’s all new to me making a claim.
My very personal view is that if you go to CEDR BA will look to get it thrown out because it was an IB issue. No harm trying, though, @JDB has basically written the submission for you.
If that fails and you go to MCOL, BA will look to do the same again. When you then try IB you’ll likely get nowhere.
Depends on how tenacious you want to be…
I am also a bit unclear as to what “a ticketing payment fee failure” means…?
Thanks I will have to make a decision, I am not as tenacious as when I was younger. “I am also a bit unclear as to what “a ticketing payment fee failure” means…?” I thought they were trying to say I didn’t pay the taxes, that’s why I checked my CC. This is the first time BA has mentioned ticketing payment fee failure previously they said ticketing issues.
My very personal view is that if you go to CEDR BA will look to get it thrown out because it was an IB issue. No harm trying, though, @JDB has basically written the submission for you.
If that fails and you go to MCOL, BA will look to do the same again. When you then try IB you’ll likely get nowhere.
Depends on how tenacious you want to be…
I am also a bit unclear as to what “a ticketing payment fee failure” means…?
Thanks I will have to make a decision, I am not as tenacious as when I was younger. “I am also a bit unclear as to what “a ticketing payment fee failure” means…?” I thought they were trying to say I didn’t pay the taxes, that’s why I checked my CC. This is the first time BA has mentioned ticketing payment fee failure previously they said ticketing issues.
Give it a few days and ask them to explain?
I wouldn’t get in to the weeds on it. If you can show that you’ve paid, which you can, then the failure of BA’s systems is not your concern.
@xcalx – I’m sorry my wording didn’t have a better effect and I’m surprised BA has responded so quickly in the negative. I draw some comfort from the reference to EU compensation but have some concern about the warning re your claim not being within the scope of CEDR. I think @PeteM is right in saying BA might well bamboozle CEDR if they take on your claim. I am not in favour of @LL’s of putting BA and Iberia together at this stage, it complicates things and allows them each to think the other will address the problem. In any event IB doesn’t participate in CEDR or any other form of ADR. It is messy in that it isn’t a classic case of denied boarding under EC261 and there are two airlines.
There isn’t any right or wrong way to pursue this, so I can only suggest what I would do in the circumstances. I’m not a great fan of the Letter before Claim but I would write one in this instance so as to reframe your complaint slightly. It is also absolutely critical that you are able to show this was BA’s error and not Iberia that wrongly rejected your boarding card.
Head the letter with ‘Letter before Claim’ and open it with something like: This letter is written in accordance with paragraph 6 of the Pre-Action Protocols Practice Direction of the Civil Procedure Rules. [put names of pax, routing and PNR]
I am now escalating the matter to offer BA the opportunity to reconsider the matter as BA Customer Relations has failed to take into account the full facts of my case and, crucially, erred in failing to consider the matter either as a simple breach of contract or under Article 19 the Montreal Convention.
[set out a concise but clear summary of the facts]
There is no question that a negligent act by BA caused us to be denied boarding in Madrid, resulting in arrival at our final destination 19 hours after the originally booked/scheduled time for which the passengers are owed compensation under EC261 or in the alternative, as a breach of contract or under the Montreal Convention.
I purchased and paid in full a ticket to travel x to y to z and it was an implicit term of such contract that BA would issue me with a valid electronic ticket for each sector of the journey. However, BA failed to issue such valid ticket resulting in us being denied boarding by BA’s agent and sister airline for the second flight of my three sector journey. After being denied boarding, I had to spend two hours on the telephone for BA to correct its error and issue a valid ticket before we were allowed to continue our journey to London and this directly led to a 19 hour delay. I am therefore claiming damages for this breach, assessed in the sum £520 per person. Alternatively, such claim is made under the Montreal Convention with damages assessed in the same sum.
Give them 14 clear days to pay [set a date and time].
Good luck.
I think going against Iberia is going to be very tricky (not only because they are a nightmare to deal with) unless you can prove they rejected a valid ticket when they would be liable. Otherwise, if BA hadn’t correctly issued, it’s like turning up without a valid passport, ie not the operating airline’s fault.
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