Cancelled flight LOT Polish Airlines, refusing rebooking

[Abdul]

Trip ex-LHR got cancelled in April and LOT refuse to rebook more than 30 days even on their own flights without paying a significant fare difference. They say my only options are refund, voucher or pay the fare difference.

I think this is illegal and incompatible with UK/EC 261 Article 8 which states “later rerouting, at the passenger’s convenience, to the same destination under comparable conditions (subject to seat availability)”

Their website shows a change in policy from April 2021, til that point you could rebook free of charge any date within ticket validity though strangely had to complete the trip by December 31 2021.

I am only asking for flights on LOT even though I could legally ask for BA or Lufthansa.

They don’t participate in the voluntary ADR. I presume Polish consumer body would be a waste of my time.

Banging my head against the wall now, is my only option to sue with MCOL for the cost difference?

Many thanks

• This topic was modified 55 years, 1 month ago by .

[Rob]

Fundamentally, yes – if they won’t give you what you belive you are legally entitled to, then you need to go via MCOL.

[Lady London]

Yes follow the procedure here. Look at the Flight Delays and Cancellations category.

Send your LBA by signed-for snail mail to their terrestrial address in the UK ideally.

You are absolutely right, they are denying illegally and you should win.

[Abdul]

Annoying they force us to do this when its categorical in law. BA costs a bit more than LOT Polish but I’d prefer it.

If I’m gonna sue, can I just claim for the difference between the new BA flights and the ones from LOT Polish?

[Supergers49]

LOT are absolutely atrocious. They cancelled flights in April 2020 (unsurprisingly), booked for our inlaws between Gdansk and Budapest. They categorically refused to rebook or refund. We did a S75 with Amex and got our money back but I would steer clear of them in future.

[Lady London]

Abdul you claim the entire cost of replacement flights.

If you read through all the threads in Flight Changes and Cancellations section you will note it is crucial that you do not accept nor ask for any form of refund from LOT – not even partial.

[Abdul]

Thank you Lady London.

It’s very important I let LOT Polish keep the money? I always thought you can claim the difference because the contract is breached and you’re reducing the value of the claim which shows reasonable behaviour. Do you have the opinion that by accepting the refund the carrier is off the hook for rebooking despite the written objections and replies I have.

What happens with online travel agencies who sometimes refund the bookings against the passengers will?

[hugol0ver]

How did you get on with LOT? By the way it’s just LOT, not LOT Polish, that’s a bit like BA being called British or the like.
It’s only a good idea to sue if you have a chance to win AND get paid. I’ve got a slam dunk but I obtained the recent CCJ judgements records against LOT at their London address and it concerns me.

There’s 24 unsatisfied CCJ’s, the most recent December 2022. There’s a gap between January 2021 and December 2022 where nothing is recorded. It doesn’t seem likely they had no claims at all, they were likely paid or the claim dismissed? There’s four satisfied judgements the most recent January 2021.
For clarity, it means 24 people are still awaiting payments? Several are over £1200.

I’m put off by the recent Wizzair calamity and some posts here saying that MCOL is only half the battle.
Should I be concerned?

[JDB]

@hugol0ver – yes enforcement at MCOL can be a problem if you have a recalcitrant defendant. There are various routes to enforcement but they cost money, you can be at risk of costs and there is no guarantee of success. The unsatisfied CCJ’s you are seeing probably relate to default judgments where the airline has just ignored the claim/refused to engage and it’s also possible the claim has been made against the wrong legal entity, so if there were some heavy enforcement action, they might just apply to have the judgment set aside. I have occasionally seen people here musing about seizing aircraft or similar, but that’s for the birds in relation to a small claim.

[PeteM]

JDB wrote:

@hugol0ver – yes enforcement at MCOL can be a problem if you have a recalcitrant defendant. There are various routes to enforcement but they cost money, you can be at risk of costs and there is no guarantee of success. The unsatisfied CCJ’s you are seeing probably relate to default judgments where the airline has just ignored the claim/refused to engage and it’s also possible the claim has been made against the wrong legal entity, so if there were some heavy enforcement action, they might just apply to have the judgment set aside. I have occasionally seen people here musing about seizing aircraft or similar, but that’s for the birds in relation to a small claim.

A really good point and I think people often don’t think through how they are actually going to enforce judgement against an entity that has no presence or assets in the UK. Their aircraft will also mostly be leased and realistically no one will be seizing an aircraft for £1k… MCOL is definitely not the solution to all your problems when it comes to airlines…

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Call in the Sheriffs!

You need to apply for a High Court Enforcement Order which the Sheriffs then try and implement. But that does cost.

Whilst they may not seize a plane they can certainly threaten to. It usually means some airline staffer getting their credit card out.

[JDB]

Applications to the High Court aren’t as simple as all that and if it is seeking enforcement of a default judgment without having taken any other enforcement steps, it may not go smoothly and, if it were opposed successfully, you would be at full risk of costs. You really need to know what you are doing.

In this situation I would pursue via the regulator in Poland.

[PeteM]

JDB wrote:

In this situation I would pursue via the regulator in Poland.

Who are 100% as toothless as the CAA. Suing them in Poland is probably the most likely to yield results, but obviously most people won’t do that.

[hugol0ver]

The Sheriff stuff and the warrants can be useful but I think they work best against UK wholly entities. I remember back in the days of BD they had their staff at Donnington on the lookout for any enforcement action to be fast-tracked to legal for payment. The CCJ’s were hurting them and there was stuff to be seized at HQ not beyond the reach of bailiffs like at LHR airside. But if you’re a Polish airline with 4 flights a day to the UK (or Hungarian…W6!) who cares…

As PeteM says (and as I posted on FlyerTalk) the regulator in Poland (Rzecznik Praw Pasażerów” the ‘Passenger Rights Ombudsman’) is currently dealing with complaints submitted in January 2021 with its 5 staff including the Ombudsman herself. It’s probably deliberately underfunded to be useless. That’s two years just for them to start enquiries, there’s another 6 months before they give you the outcome and then you might still be forced to sue.

In contrast, the Hungarian regulator has true enforcement power and will sue airlines on the passengers behalf, funnily enough LOT recently contested this power, it went all the way to the CJEU. They lost.

The lawyer route in Poland is an option. I’ve heard that LOT’s lawyers are crap.

For tickets to the UK I was hoping to seek redress here due to the comfort and ease of the UK system. I really hate suing, it feels so American or German, like couples who call the police on each other, there’s always a better way to resolve it. Maybe they’re counting on me being wet about it though?

[PeteM]

I think most airlines count on most passengers being wet – see BA rejecting even the most obvious of claims to begin with. It’s good business and nothing happens to them if they behave this way.

[JDB]

@hugol0ver the best way to proceed in your case is difficult for anyone to help you with as the precise circumstances and value make a big difference. In respect of the Polish regulator, getting there in the end may be better than a pyrrhic MCOL victory. I would also involve the Polish regulator (rather than the ombudsman) re the unsatisfied CCJ’s; a little embarrassment goes a long way. The CAA/CMA here will assist as well; just a matter of pushing the right buttons.

[PeteM]

Given that LOT is Polish-state owned, as are the Polish courts, regulator and ombudsman I wouldn’t get too excited. Who is going to shame who? Sorry to be a cynic…

[JDB]

PeteM wrote:

Given that LOT is Polish-state owned, as are the Polish courts, regulator and ombudsman I wouldn’t get too excited. Who is going to shame who? Sorry to be a cynic…

@PeteM I’m probably at least as cynical as you! Experience has taught me however, that there are many different ways to skin a cat in different jurisdictions, it’s just a matter of finding the right route and Poland is a relatively easy one.

[hugol0ver]

I did have solution previously but the flux and the cash-saving they’re going through after the termination of their CEO means that has dried up. If you’ve got any ideas @JDB for a PL-based solution feel free to fire me a PM on FlyerTalk as there seems to be no PM function here.

[JDB]

@hugol0ver – I don’t do FlyerTalk. You haven’t told us anything on this thread about your case save that it is a “slam dunk”. Without knowing a bit more and particularly whether it involves flights to/from the UK and the steps you have taken so far, it’s difficult to suggest a good strategy to force LOT’s hand, so please let us know more detail.

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

hugol0ver wrote:

The Sheriff stuff and the warrants can be useful but I think they work best against UK wholly entities. I remember back in the days of BD they had their staff at Donnington on the lookout for any enforcement action to be fast-tracked to legal for payment. The CCJ’s were hurting them and there was stuff to be seized at HQ not beyond the reach of bailiffs like at LHR airside. But if you’re a Polish airline with 4 flights a day to the UK (or Hungarian…W6!) who cares…

Sheriffs aren’t the same as Bailiffs and they have extra powers of entry and seizure which included being allowed airside.

The two shouldn’t be confused.

[JDB]

BA Flyer IHG Stayer wrote:

hugol0ver wrote:

The Sheriff stuff and the warrants can be useful but I think they work best against UK wholly entities. I remember back in the days of BD they had their staff at Donnington on the lookout for any enforcement action to be fast-tracked to legal for payment. The CCJ’s were hurting them and there was stuff to be seized at HQ not beyond the reach of bailiffs like at LHR airside. But if you’re a Polish airline with 4 flights a day to the UK (or Hungarian…W6!) who cares…

Sheriffs aren’t the same as Bailiffs and they have extra powers of entry and seizure which included being allowed airside.

The two shouldn’t be confused.

You first need to get the writ and it requires personal service; how is it you are suggesting someone should go through the procedure against a Polish company and how much will it cost?