Cultural Carribbean?

[ross]

Hi,

I was originally thinking of Laos or Cambodia for a dose of Eastern culture.

However, I was thinking, what if I can do a bit of beach holiday Carribbean style, with also a good dose of culture?

Does it exist, or has it all been American-ised? I do not want to go to Cuba or Jamaica, as we’ve been there not long ago

Here’s the potential list, based on where BA flies and where we have not been.

Bermuda
Antigua
Aruba
Bahamas
Barbados
Puerto Rico
St Kitts
St Lucia
Trinidad Tobago
Turks Caicos

Thank you

[NorthernLass]

As a rule of thumb, the bigger the destination, the more history and cultural you’ll find. If you want museums, colonial architecture, historic/archaeological sites, etc in abundance, the Dominican Republic or Yutacan area of Mexico are good choices. I think BA flies to Punta Cana in the DR, but you want to be in Santo Domingo for the best stuff. Puerto Rico is also a good choice as San Juan is an interesting city with similar attractions as SD, however BA doesn’t fly there, you would need to go via the US.

The others will all have museums, galleries, musical offerings but of course on a much smaller scale, so it depends on how much of a culture vulture you are!

There’s nothing to stop you doing more than one place if you have time – e.g. you could tour some of the Yucatan peninsula then move on to an island (if you want to avoid the Cancun area) for your beach time.

*Of course there’s not much left in terms of indigenous culture, if that’s what you mean, but again Mexico would be the best option for encountering what indigenous culture remains after several centuries of European occupation.

[ross]

We went.ro the Yucatan before the West threw up all over Tulum and wrecked what was a stunning eco friendly place where you could watch turtles lay eggs. Now it’s full of crap bars.

Indigenous culture, not necessarily, but definitely not some sort of “tourist culture”.

[NorthernLass]

I’m not really sure what you mean, here, @ross – Yucatan is much more than the coastal resorts. There are amazing archaeological sites like Chichen Itza and Uxmal, and Merida, the regional capital, has museums, galleries and a cathedral.

[masaccio]

Yucutan definitely ticks the culture box, though may not tick the beach box as sargassum is rampant. Supposedly the west coast of Cozumel stays free of it. It didn’t ruin our trip when we went, but I only went in the sea from a dive boat as the beach and water was swamped with stinking seaweed.

The small islands of the Caribbean are very sleepy places. Of the ones we’ve visited, Grenada has more ‘stuff to do’ than most. Whether chocolate factories and rum mills tick your culture box I don’t know, but that’s what you get.

[JDB]

NorthernLass wrote:

I’m not really sure what you mean, here, @ross – Yucatan is much more than the coastal resorts. There are amazing archaeological sites like Chichen Itza and Uxmal, and Merida, the regional capital, has museums, galleries and a cathedral.

There are now so many tourists at Chichén Itzá that it’s like the sargassum seaweed; throughly unpleasant and you can’t see much. There are droves of buses from the coastal hotels and cruise ships for most of the day, so one really wants a private tour before the arrive or after they leave.

[ross]

NorthernLass wrote:

I’m not really sure what you mean, here, @ross – Yucatan is much more than the coastal resorts. There are amazing archaeological sites like Chichen Itza and Uxmal, and Merida, the regional capital, has museums, galleries and a cathedral.

You are quite right. I was just venting about Tulum!

Mexico unfortunately, given it’s proximity, does tend to be overrun by American tourists who expect things a certain way. That homogeneity of local offering, for me at least, ruins some of the exoticness of travel.

I’m not saying that the sites of Chichen Itza are ruined as a result, but, I would certainly say that Tulum has no where near the same far flung impact that it did a decade ago.

I digress! Also, we’ve been to Yucatan, so I should have just said that! 🙂

[AJA]

Personally I’d avoid the Caribbean if culture and history is what you want. I think your original idea of Laos / Cambodia is more interesting.

If you do want to go to the Caribbean I’d recommend any of these but agree with @NorthernLass the bigger the island the more there is to see.

Antigua
Aruba
Barbados
Puerto Rico
St Lucia

[JDB]

@Ross – the tourist invasion is pretty tragic! When we first went to Cancún 25 years there were a few big hotels and the main street wasn’t paved – not a busy place at all, empty beaches and no seaweed. There were very traditional small villages (with the classic rope humps) along the road to Tulum which was a magical seaside site with nothing built anywhere near.

Now the airport has 40m pax a year and they have built an airport at Tulum so they can cram in a few more. It’s completely out of control, and attracts unsuspecting/undemanding mass market tourists that inevitably also attract drugs and general high levels of crime.

[NorthernLass]

@JDB, this is what the Alhambra was like on Sunday, we were reminiscing about being the only people there 30 years ago and being able to wander freely without all the rope barriers there are now.

But I suppose tourists can’t really criticise other people for also being tourists 😂

[Michael C]

NorthernLass wrote:

@JDB, this is what the Alhambra was like on Sunday, we were reminiscing about being the only people there 30 years ago and being able to wander freely without all the rope barriers there are now.

But I suppose tourists can’t really criticise other people for also being tourists 😂

I was wondering about the Alhambra, Anna – also not been for a couple of decades (didn’t even know
there was a booking system!) but would love for the fam to see it: I guess it would just be a question
of being the first ones in on any given day?

@Ross – remember that Cambodia has lovely beaches, too, in case you want to do a culture/temple/coast combo!

[NorthernLass]

Hi Michael, you have to pre-book for the Palacio Navaries (which was heaving) but the rest is open access during opening hours. The other areas were relatively quiet as it looked as though they don’t take the tour groups there, or at least not as many.

We booked the 1pm slot as we were driving from Malaga – I would think though that a lot of tour groups also have the early slots 🤷‍♀️.

But probably weekends are best avoided if you can! There’s a chart on the website showing how busy they anticipate it over the coming week, it was going to be very busy all this week and “extreme” on Saturday!

We did wonder if you get any kind of early or late access if staying at the Parador on-site.

Currently posting from Starbucks at AGP, furious that BA still only opens bag drop 2 hours before after alerting everyone by email that the flight is full and hand baggage needs to be checked 😡😂

[JDB]

NorthernLass wrote:

@JDB, this is what the Alhambra was like on Sunday, we were reminiscing about being the only people there 30 years ago and being able to wander freely without all the rope barriers there are now.

But I suppose tourists can’t really criticise other people for also being tourists 😂

No, it’s the fault of the authorities for allowing tourism to develop in an uncontrolled manner. Excess tourism is not only bad for the individual tourist experience but damaging to monuments/buildings and natural sights. I think many may not realise that you could just wander into these places like the Alhambra, Uffuzi gallery or Duomo in Florence without booking and might not encounter more than a handful of tourists. Now one has to go further annd further off the beaten track! We were in Toledo in January which was fairly crowded, but only in the middle of the day and at the main attractions. In Illescas, 30 minutes away, we were the only tourists and had a private tour (unplanned) of the church from the warden; that church has more El Greco paintings (and impressive ones) than any place in Toledo.

[Colin MacKinnon]

Thanks for Illescas, @JDB.

For the last 20-odd years, we have made it a point to miss the “big name” attractions. The “second rate” ones are usually now more authentic and interesting!

So don’t go to Stonehenge, make the effort to go to Callanish, or Orkney (although Orkney is getting deluged by cruise ships now!). Or just wander at random around the stones in Kilmartin – not much more than an hour and a half from Glasgow!

If Iberia have resumed flights from Madrid to Puerto Rico, I would go there. The south is less busy than the north, and then there are the small islands like Vieques.

Now I’m looking for “niche” events in Europe (except for winter, really – just need that sun!) So Mrs MacK insists that there’s cherry blossom season better than Japan’s in Spain, I had a really fun time last week in Wuppertal for the suspended monorail and Art Nouveau houses and then the “political” floats in the Dusseldorf Carnival.

Italian Railways have an incredible restored 1960s train with wrap-round view observation cars, there’s the Baltic coast, the Scilly Islands….

Where are the places to go now for winter sun before they become ruined? Burma was lovely for that short period when it reopened and there appeared to be peace. Had three trips there. Maybe Sri Lanka and Kerela for next year?

[NorthernLass]

The almond blossom is beautiful in Andalusia at this time of year. Yes, it’s possible to find quiet spots just beyond the main tourist areas. Yesterday we drove up an extremely vertiginous mountain road to the ruined Castillo de Cartama – complete with a medieval shrine – and pretty much had it to ourselves. Glorious views of course, and only about 20 minutes out of Malaga.

There are lots of places like that which most people wouldn’t even bother to look for.

[ross]

So many great pieces of advice, thank you.

I must say your comments are pushing the original idea of Cambodia to the forefront.

It does make me think that I should have traveled more around COVID times, we went to the Alhambra, not more than 80 people in the entire complex.

[ross]

Colin MacKinnon wrote:

Thanks for Illescas, @JDB.

For the last 20-odd years, we have made it a point to miss the “big name” attractions. The “second rate” ones are usually now more authentic and interesting!

So don’t go to Stonehenge, make the effort to go to Callanish, or Orkney (although Orkney is getting deluged by cruise ships now!). Or just wander at random around the stones in Kilmartin – not much more than an hour and a half from Glasgow!

If Iberia have resumed flights from Madrid to Puerto Rico, I would go there. The south is less busy than the north, and then there are the small islands like Vieques.

Now I’m looking for “niche” events in Europe (except for winter, really – just need that sun!) So Mrs MacK insists that there’s cherry blossom season better than Japan’s in Spain, I had a really fun time last week in Wuppertal for the suspended monorail and Art Nouveau houses and then the “political” floats in the Dusseldorf Carnival.

Italian Railways have an incredible restored 1960s train with wrap-round view observation cars, there’s the Baltic coast, the Scilly Islands….

Where are the places to go now for winter sun before they become ruined? Burma was lovely for that short period when it reopened and there appeared to be peace. Had three trips there. Maybe Sri Lanka and Kerela for next year?

The road less travelled, it’s what drew me to Lalibela over Petra.

So, tell me more @colin ….where else have you been that you would recommend? Preferably outside of Europe.

[Colin MacKinnon]

@ross The biggest experience was the Tazara train from Dar Es Salaam to Kasama – a village on the move, filthier than a London pavement and packed with energy and goods purchased at all sorts of weird stops on the way. Followed by a crazy minibus to the foot of Lake Tanganyika and three days on the Liemba – the passenger ship Humphrey Bogart “sank” with the Africa Queen”!

Not one bit of luxury on the whole trip – that was no Blue Train or fancy cruise ship! Fabulous.

In Europe, a Jewish purification bath discovered under a building in the centre of Syracuse, which the Romans had built on top of, which had been built on top of by the medieval folks, which was flattened by a bomb from the US airforce! Talk about layers of history. We found out about it because we were there during the week of their Doors Open Days (highly recommended initiative).

(In Glasgow, you can visit the Britannia Panopticon music hall where Stan Laurel made his stage debut on their DODs!)

I also have some strange hobbies: like visiting revolving restaurants (yes, Dusseldorf had one: E12.5 to go up to the viewing gallery, but free to go to the restaurant where great cocktails were E10 – so we got paid E5 to have cocktails!), suspended monorails (that’s a new target) and Time Ball stations (about 60 in the world – one in Edinburgh, one in Greenwich, one in Madrid, only used for eating grapes at New Year, Cape Town, etc)

All these are great ways to break the ice with locals and find out more about the “real” live in a place.