Maximise your Avios, air miles and hotel points

  • SMB 26 posts

    Question to the knowledgeable please.
    BA cancelled flight on arrival at MAN check-in way back in May 2023, MAN-LHR-PMI. Claim put in for EU/UK261 plus return of Avios and payment x3. Nothing else on that claim as BA sent them home in a taxi and paid for it. Usual reply from BA and subsequently chased up. It was my son and family, he put in the claim but I booked and paid for it. (Family and Friends).
    Should I have made the claim as I booked it all? His EU261 claim and my Avios etc to be returned.
    As still no proper response is it the start of numerous phone calls and should he be doing it or should I as it was from my Executive Account?
    I’ve been down the MCOL route but didn’t think it would be necessary for this and numerous family illnesses have manifested into an unusual tardiness in keeping on top of things.

    NorthernLass 7,466 posts

    What was the reason for the cancellation? It’s not totally clear what happened here, are you saying the family abandoned their holiday and just went home by taxi?

    Claims have to be submitted by the affected passengers, though it doesn’t actually matter who fills in the forms. I’m not sure they would get a refund AND compensation though. Did they request to be re-routed at all? There would have been other carriers going from MAN or even other London airports.

    SMB 26 posts

    @NorthernLass Thanks. The flight to LHR was just cancelled. No aircraft. Tried to get them to make their own way to LHR by train which certainly wouldn’t have made the connection. Offered CDG in the afternoon and no further info on connections so they declined. After they got home I, not they, got a surprise text from KLM to give info on a flight via AMS and MAD which they booked them on but no further info after MAD and had not even been mentioned at MAN. Total shambles. They booked themselves Jet2 from LBA to get out but that’s another story. It was the English school holiday week. Just trying to get back what was paid and EU261. Not looking for any other compensation. BA just not replying further to the claim except saying they have received it.

    SMB 26 posts

    @NorthernLass Should have mentioned that BA failed to advise of the flight cancellation in advance as ground staff were surprised that they had tried to check in and the CDG flight required an overnight in Paris.

    NorthernLass 7,466 posts

    That is pretty shambolic. When did you submit the claim and when did you last hear from BA? Have you had a look at the “cancellations” thread on here as there is a lot of good information on the options in these circumstances.

    SMB 26 posts

    @NorthernLass. I left it to my son to claim as he was the passenger x3 and I think the last contact re the claim was early September via the claim form. I’ll have a look at past Q&As but now that you have confirmed it’s fine for him to deal with it as the passenger, I was just wanting to know if the next step should be the onerous phone call? I know all about that round the houses conversation with the call centre as had to do it myself in 2022 and probably was only settled in call number 5 with the loss of many chunks of hair from my head. The MCOL was a different issue.
    No-one wants to up-level this as it was a simple cancelled flight, albeit not notified, but if needs must, I have the tenacity (although mentally exhausted with BA).
    Thanks again. So phone contacts followed by Letter Before Action if they continue to prevaricate?

    JDB 4,309 posts

    I recall this story which you posted on the day. In the first instance, you need to chase BA for a response which has most likely been delayed as it’s in their ‘too messy’ drawer. There’s zero point in telephoning – use the ‘replytome’ but from the acknowledgements.

    I think MCOL may be a risky route as your son will have to pay fairly substantial fees (and BA will say he has no locus standi to issue a claim for his wife/partner) and BA could have an ‘extraordinary circumstances’ defence for the cancellation. BA did offer a rerouting which was rejected and at the point they paid for a taxi home, it was a tacit acceptance that offers of rerouting had been replaced by cancellation/refund although it seems there was some miscommunication about the KLM option. My recollection of the refusal was that it was to do with timings/connections with a six year old but they did subsequently travel on a flight that arrived very late so the reasonableness in rejecting the rerouting may be called into question. Looking at it objectively, it seems they changed their minds with help from you. You don’t mention any refund that might be due from BA which would have to be put towards the Jet2 tickets – ie what’s the difference your son is seeking? If you do decide to write any Letter before Action or pursue at MCOL it’s best to avoid references to shambles etc. as that doesn’t change the legal position and simply detracts from any good arguments. Best to keep it simple and clinical with a clear timeline/chronology of events plus exactly what you are seeking and why.

    SMB 26 posts

    @JDB Yes thanks for all of that. They are not pursuing the Jet2 flight that they subsequently booked but just the EU261, return of my Avios and £150 as it was CE. The flight via CDG would have involved an overnight stay and the Jet2 they booked at least arrived the same night. Seems the KLM was much later than Jet2 but that’s not really relevant now as it was simply a cancelled flight of which BA failed to advise in advance, and so they taxied home courtesy of BA.
    Having won an MCOL with your help in 2022 I hope I would be able to go down that route again if ever needed but this case is simply as stated above. EU261, Avios, £150.
    Thanks again.

    JDB 4,309 posts

    @SMB if you are just after the refund and potentially cancellation compensation, it’s probably worth writing a hard copy Letter before Claim by recorded delivery setting out the situation and giving them 14 days (set an actual date a bit over two weeks away to allow for delivery) to pay the refund of xxx Avios + £150 failing which you will issue a claim at MCOL for the cash purchase cost of the Avios (£ xx) + £150 taxes, plus all court fees and interest at the court rate starting, per Article 8.1(a) seven days after initially asking for the refund = £x at the date of the letter.

    Additionally, you seek cancellation compensation in the sum of £220 x 3 as the flight was cancelled on the day of travel and no ‘extraordinary circumstances’ applied. Also to paid in 14 days.

    You might be better doing a chargeback/s75 for the refund although it’s harder after 120 although the justification is that it’s only late because the merchant hasn’t responded to the request.

    Matt 315 posts

    Is there any reason not just to take it to CEDR? Can submit straight away, no fees to pay, and (assuming you’re confident about the cancellation reason) should result in refund plus compensation payments, even if it does take a while.

    SMB 26 posts

    @JDB Again thanks for the advice. I’ll make sure that is done.


    @Matt
    Thanks for your help. I’ll approach as advice from JDB first before CEDR.

    The whole thing is ridiculous and we are just being ignored with the contact phone and email having been withdrawn as my son phoned today and was told that and also that they had never heard of anyone waiting that long. Don’t know who he spoke to. Once again BA behaving badly so might be the Nectar route for me soon too just keeping a small emergency pot.
    Cheers guys. Life is a bit stressful just now and I could do without this but I won’t be the only one. Couldn’t do without your help.

    JDB 4,309 posts

    Is there any reason not just to take it to CEDR? Can submit straight away, no fees to pay, and (assuming you’re confident about the cancellation reason) should result in refund plus compensation payments, even if it does take a while.

    The reason is that CEDR doesn’t deal with refunds. If the refund aspect is resolved (and BA won’t try to defend that) then CEDR would be the simpler route for the cancellation compensation as it can be done as one claim and as you say no fees which one is at risk of losing if BA has a successful ‘extraordinary circumstances’ defence. The LBC will either elicit no response or, if it does, BA will settle the refund at least.

    Matt 315 posts

    Is there any reason not just to take it to CEDR? Can submit straight away, no fees to pay, and (assuming you’re confident about the cancellation reason) should result in refund plus compensation payments, even if it does take a while.

    The reason is that CEDR doesn’t deal with refunds. If the refund aspect is resolved (and BA won’t try to defend that) then CEDR would be the simpler route for the cancellation compensation as it can be done as one claim and as you say no fees which one is at risk of losing if BA has a successful ‘extraordinary circumstances’ defence. The LBC will either elicit no response or, if it does, BA will settle the refund at least.

    Are you sure about that (CEDR not dealing with refunds)? The exclusions on their website don’t mention it:
    “Personal injury claims
    Discrimination
    Where dealing with such a dispute it would seriously impair the effective operation of CEDR
    Fairness of the terms of a contract for aviation services
    Fairness of a subscribing company’s commercial practices”

    And it seems to fit within the Scope of the Scheme:
    “2.1.1 Denied boarding, delay, or cancellation (for disputes involving airlines only); ”

    As far as I was aware, CEDR is a dispute resolution service, not specifically an EU261 compensation service (although a refund is part of EU/Uk261 rights in this scenario).

    JDB 4,309 posts

    @Matt – yes, I believe refunds fall outside the scope of rules 2.1.1 to 2.1.5 and even if it were technically allowed, it is clearly the wrong forum. In this instance, the refund should have been pursued independently at the outset and it would have been paid months ago. For all their faults, BA may sometimes be slow with refunds but they don’t withhold them/not pay them.

    CEDR does do more than just UK261 but really deals with contractual issues and application of the APR and a refund is rather different.

    Shazza12 47 posts

    Can anyone assist with making a claim with Turkish Airlines? Flight TK1976 on 21/2/24 was cancelled. Got rebooked onto TK1978. Arrived in Istanbul 00:04 (original flight should have arrived 18:25). Unable to find any links on website to make a claim for delay over 3 hours.

    NorthernLass 7,466 posts

    Where were you flying from and what was the reason for the cancellation?

    davefl 1,229 posts
    Shazza12 47 posts

    @davefl – thank you, super helpful, never would have found that !

    JDB 4,309 posts

    Can anyone assist with making a claim with Turkish Airlines? Flight TK1976 on 21/2/24 was cancelled. Got rebooked onto TK1978. Arrived in Istanbul 00:04 (original flight should have arrived 18:25). Unable to find any links on website to make a claim for delay over 3 hours.

    TK isn’t too user friendly on EC261. You need to telephone to file your claim or email the sales office in Dublin. It is cancellation compensation you are seeking, not delay compensation – if you ask for the wrong thing it’s an invitation for them to refuse your claim. There is the risk that TK will cite ‘extraordinary circumstances’ to deny your claim so any evidence as to the reason for the cancellation may assist.

    Shazza12 47 posts

    @JDB Thank you for taking the time to reply with that very helpful information. Apologies if this is a stupid question!! It was a connecting flight and arrival time in the final destination was the same as the booking. Does EC261 no longer apply for the flight cancellation?

    BA Flyer IHG Stayer 2,045 posts

    So you weren’t delayed on reaching your final destination? You should have mentioned that right at the start.

    In which case no compensation is due.

    NorthernLass 7,466 posts

    Is cancellation compo still due though?

    JDB 4,309 posts

    @JDB Thank you for taking the time to reply with that very helpful information. Apologies if this is a stupid question!! It was a connecting flight and arrival time in the final destination was the same as the booking. Does EC261 no longer apply for the flight cancellation?

    As @BAFlyerIHGStayer says, if it was a connecting journey you have to consider the whole, not the individual flights, so as you have been rerouted to depart no more than one hour earlier and to arrive no more than two hours later at the final destination, no compensation is payable for the cancelled flight.

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