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Good point, I have no idea! I’m guessing the hospital are covering themselves by not saying she’s fit to fly. If she seems ok I don’t see how the airline would know. I’m not a medic but I believe there’s real risk in flying soon after a GA.
If she flies knowing she’s at risk and has no insurance and disaster strikes then I have no idea what her position is. That’s one for the legal types on here .
As you say, she will do what she will do. I’m guessing she’s not the best at listening to advice from what you’ve said. I don’t envy you trying to help her make the right choice.
Sorry to hear about the unfortunate saga @Northernlass. As many have pointed out, emergency (as well as sexual/reproductive health) care are free for all on the NHS. It would be prudent to consider a broken shoulder (or at least the initial stabilisation) and sepsis as medical emergencies. There would realistically only be costs if she is being admitted onto a ward.
It would be advisable she requests the discharge summary and all images (x-ray, CT… etc) performed on a CD upon discharge, so the doctors in Bermuda could follow up and ensure continuity of care.
In terms of fit to fly, she should have plenty of medications (especially painkillers) prescribed to last the journey, so she is not in pain for her own comfort but also prevent unintended consequences of exhibiting signs of pain. She should request the doctor to state she is “fit to fly” which can form part of her discharge summary. This is especially relevant if she has any *external* signs of injury (for example if she was in a shoulder sling). There is a theoretical risk of being denied boarding if the check-in agent deemed the medical situation precarious, and one couldn’t produce a fit to fly letter (as ultimately airline wouldn’t want the flight to be diverted).
In terms of seat selection in the context of shoulder injury after she was deemed fit to fly, one would recommend a seat with window being on the same side of her injured shoulder to avoid bumping into other passengers/sticking out I the corridor (unless business class then less relevant). Also consider wheelchair and luggage assistance on both ends in case of reduced mobility and frailty.
Hope she makes a speedy recovery.
Thanks – assistance was already requested as she is very frail anyway – we just now have to see if she will be fit to take her booked flights in a couple of weeks. She’s now waiting for a bed, which could be tomorrow 😬.
Fingers crossed that this will all work out? I wouldn’t know whether to chastise her for lack of insurance or praise her stubbornness and tenacity?
They’ve decided she has severe internal bruising and sepsis so at least she shouldn’t need surgery. She might decide she’s never coming again if she has to spend 20 hours waiting for a bed! Of course all the consultants are on strike tomorrow which doesn’t help.
I was at A & E myself a few weeks ago, having been told by 111 that I needed urgent attention for a water infection. On arrival I was told there were no doctors available until the next morning so I got the triage nurse to check that I wasn’t showing any signs of sepsis myself then took myself off home and managed to get hold of my GP the next morning.
It was so busy that people were literally lying on the floor in the waiting room and corridors. The sign on the wall stated that expected treatment time was 17 hours! Yet the branch of Costa in the reception area shut at 6 pm – they must be losing a fortune.
I’m glad she has no broken bones, hopefully that will make her trip home easier when she’s ready.
I said earlier that I don’t want to get into NHS bashing but I had a similar experience earlier this year. 111 said “go directly to A&E we will call them and they will be expecting you” I got there and when I saw the triage nurse she said “ oh they tell everyone that, there’s an 8 hour wait to be seen “
23 hours later we were told to go home because the machine they needed to give the result of a blood test wasn’t working. It was like a war zone. People on the floor and standing room only. All was well in the end but it was an experience which left me feeling anxious for any future trips there.Where the treatment is offered decides if it is chargeable.
Care delivered at a GP and in the Emergency Department (and at some sexual health centres) is free regardless of NHS status. The ED is where the ’emergency’ bit of the care comes from. The care doesnt actually have to be emergency. Just delivered there.All care that requires admission (regardless of whether it is ’emergency’, ‘immediately necessary’, or routine), is not free and will be charged for. If it is urgent, it will be provided, and charged for later. Going from ED to the ward, this is the point at which they decide to admit, even if you end up sitting on a trolly. It is entirely possible one can get bloods/CT scan all for free in ED.
NHS care is free for British citizens if they are ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK. In practice, for it to be free for your Aunt, this means your OH’s aunt needs to state they now intend to live in the UK, have a place to live (and produce utility bills/council tax etc), and register with a GP.
The hospital will know quickly if she is not eligibile for NHS care. Never lie on any forms. A hospital trust will now aggressively pursue those who owe money, to the point of getting their passport confiscated if British, or future British visas barred if foreign.
Wishing her my best.Thanks @points_worrier, we were just trying to get an idea of how much it actually costs to be treated on the NHS if you don’t qualify … hopefully she will be ok after a few days as an in-patient and will be fit to fly home when she was scheduled to.
Very rough ideas (hopefully she doesnt need the latter):
Bed and board for a few days with IV antibiotics, medicines, few xrays etc; £2-3k
with non-elective Shoulder Surgery: £8-10k
needing ITU: extra £2-3k/day in ITURE: charging, she may actually slip under the radar if she is not too unwell. If she is sicker, they will look in to her background/home life etc as part of discharge planning (ensuring she is safe to go home), and almost certainly realise she is not eligible for NHS care.
Sorry to hear this.
Listen, my mother was in hospital for 3 months so we got to see lots of people coming and going.
I am fairly certain 50% had no right to NHS free health. A small % even boasted of how they came from Albania/Greece/Croatia specifically for expensive cancer treatment from the NHS (they had family here so may have registered at their address and signed up at the local GP).
At no point did I ever see a nurse/doctor/etc. be interested in the legal status of a patient. If somebody there was going to be eventually charged it is not at the point of treatment. Maybe months from now they will get something, but most certainly will be back home by then.
Unless the hospital is chasing you I believe you won’t have to pay.
I’m afraid you’re very wrong. The NHS actively pursue fees from those not entitled, drs and nurses are not part of this process. I’m
The two trusts i work for do not, and the situation is as described above, UCLH and N & E Herts
They have a right to demand an upfront payment for services as per a separate NHS tariff which then gets knocked off the final bill. If they haven’t asked yet for the upfront payment, they haven’t found an issue yet with her eligibility
Thank you all so much for the help and support! Aunty has now been moved to an acute medical ward, she doesn’t need surgery at this time but they have said they want to do an MRI scan to investigate further.
NHS care is free for British citizens if they are ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK….
… A hospital trust will now aggressively pursue those who owe money, to the point of getting their passport confiscated if British,
Well, if they can’t leave the UK (assuming no other citizenship) then they are definitely eligible for the NHS!
Never lie on any forms. A hospital trust will now aggressively pursue those who owe money, to the point of getting their passport confiscated if British, or future British visas barred if foreign.
The naivety of these statements made me laugh…
Indeed. Wasn’t there a report a couple of years ago saying that the NHS didn’t even bother to charge other EU Member States for EU citizens using EHIC while in the UK? And now they even manage to confiscate passports? They must have been improved greatly then!
Thank you all so much for the help and support! Aunty has now been moved to an acute medical ward, she doesn’t need surgery at this time but they have said they want to do an MRI scan to investigate further.
No surgery is great news.
to the point of getting their passport confiscated
Do you have any evidence for this piece of outrageous scaremongering?
@Annie, just playing Devil’s Advocate, she is due to fly home early next month from LHR (I had already booked her a CE flight MAN-LHR to spare her the coach journey she was trying to insist on taking) How would the airline know if she was fit/unfit to fly? We can’t rule anything out, she is perfectly capable of discharging herself and turning up at the airport whether or not a doctor says she is fit!
As per other posts, and also something we looked in to when considering how to rid ourselves of the albatross/patient – “fitness to fly” is a can of worms which with luck you can avoid opening. An alert-looking mature person in a wheelchair is likely to be OK; a bandaged and drowsy one making the unforced error of talking about her hospital stay is risky.
Regarding the MAN-LHR trip and leaving her “unattended” in the hands of LHR disabled assistance – personally I would, if possible, drive her to LHR, see her put into the care of the assistance people at security, and remain in the vicinity until she was confirmed boarded. I’d even consider buying a throwaway ticket to somewhere (or a refundable?) so that I could go through security with her and see her boarded.
I do appreciate, in a close and personal way that hurts, that this is not necessarily simple when you have work and children and a life. But IMV it de-risks the whole situation vs using MAN, using a BA connection, relying on assistance at both airports to get her right place, right time, and without her foolishly saying something that gets her offloaded. We don’t now live in the first world, high-conscientiousness world that we grew up in, and have to plan for things to fail.
It’s enlightening to look at the flightradar24 stats for the MAN-LHR flights at different times of day:
BA1385 is booked to depart around 0700 and has only been late (and then only by a few minutes) once in the past month.
BA1383 is booked to depart around 0800 and has only been late (and then only by an hour) once in the past month.
BA1387, 0900, a cancellation and a slight lateness.
BA1389, 1100, messy: 6 slight delay, 3 serious delay (2 of them almost guaranteed connection-breakers) and a cancellation.
BA1399, 1600, 7 slight delay, 1 long delay, 2 cancellations.
BA1407, 2000, has only been on-time 3 times and has also had 2 cancellations. You may as well hitch-hike as rely on that PoS.
Thanks for this! We and OH’s sister are already away on the date she’s due to fly home, and the remaining family members are all fairly elderly/infirm. She is booked on the 0750 from MAN so chances are she will make the connection.
Agree re the late departure, we have taken it both ways in the past 10 days and both were delayed. To add insult to injury, the Escape lounge at MAN closed at 8 pm and we were all kicked out!
to the point of getting their passport confiscated
Do you have any evidence for this piece of outrageous scaremongering?
Not withdrawing citizenship (eg shamima Begum), but removing the ability to travel abroad until debt repaid (or repayment plan in place) if they think you’re going to do a runner.
“There may be circumstances in which the application of legislative powers is not appropriate to the individual applicant but there is a need to restrict the ability of a person to travel abroad.
The application of discretion by the Home Secretary will primarily focus on preventing overseas travel.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-issuing-withdrawal-or-refusal-of-passports
I do not know anyone who has had this happen, but am aware of those who have had it mentioned as a threat – was it an empty one? Unknown – they did pay.
NHS debts of Non-U.K. nationals are now required to be reported to the home office to be put on the persons immigration record. It will be considered at any future application for visa or presentation at the border, and usually will result in refusal unless a payment plan (not necessarily full payment of debt) is in place.
The biggie in any of this is whether the hospital would pick up they are not eligible for NHS care. For shorter stays or smaller things, probably not. For bigger things where consideration of social circumstances is taken in to account for the care package, then quite probably.
Well – we got a message earlier from a relative in BDA who had managed to contact the company which provides her health insurance for treatment there and apparently they have said they will reimburse her costs so that’s a relief (though a surprise!) Mind you, she travels to the US quite a lot for treatment for her heart condition so NHS care is probably a drop in the ocean compared to that!
So she may just have to pay up front then claim it back later, though it’s not been mentioned since she was admitted.
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