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Hi,
I have a cancelled flight with Virgin Atlantic to Hong Kong over Easter. Now that the travel restrictions have been lifted, I contacted them to get it rebooked onto Cathay Pacific or British Airways. The agent said they can rebook on Cathay Pacific only but that they have been instructed that rebookings for the 27th of March until the 1st of April are not possible, and 13th to 18th of April for the return. However, my original flights were exactly during those dates.
What would be the best way to escalate this?
ThanksWho cancelled the flight in the first place? Yourself, or VAA? One route is to use UK261, which I think is valid in this circumstance since VAA is a UK-registered airline. That said, they should be more amenable than that. Do you have their final position in writing? I would try a different agent, or – better yet – email customer.care@fly.virgin.com. You can ask for an escalation via email, too. If you have status, not that you should have to, but a call to the Gold or Silver line is probably going to help rectify the issue faster.
I imagine that those dates are school holidays around Easter and, therefore, fares are higher than an internal cap. That should be irrelevant for your cause, though, if they originally cancelled the flights.
As a back up option, their fare guarantee allows you a refund if they cancel, but I can see that taking a refund might not be your preferred option if fares are much higher than you paid in the first place.
(As an aside, you probably mean VS in your title – VA is Virgin Australia’s IATA code).
Thanks! Yes, Virgin Atlantic cancelled the entire route. Flights are now significantly more expensive so can’t take a refund.
https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/victory-over-ba-at-cedr-on-ticket-validity-issue/
@petter above is a rather more verbose discussion than you require with regards to my successful claim against BA when they were refusing to provide me with the same flights, on the same dates the following year after they cancelled my flights. The reason was different in my case but the law is the same and will demonstrate the strong rights you have under UK law in this situation. Unfortunately if Virgin will not behave you will have to consider whether you are prepared to buy the flights and then pursue Virgin through legal routes.
As a first step @AL’s advice above is eminently sensible. Additionally if you do go down the legal route check whether you have “family legal cover” through your home insurance. Many people have this without realising (costs about £25 per year) and covers legal costs up to a figure for a range of disputes such as employment, personal injury, boundary disputes and consumer disputes. With the latter the insurer may restrict claims to breach of contract so there could be an argument with them as to whether EC Flight Reg claims are covered. However a quick call to your home insurer will start the ball rolling.
Also check with your travel insurer if they will pay the cost of alternative flights due to cancellation by airline. My instinct is that this may not be covered but you must phone and ask to get the answer on your specific policy.
“can rebook on Cathay Pacific only but that they have been instructed that rebookings for the 27th of March until the 1st of April are not possible, and 13th to 18th of April for the return.”
That’s very cheeky essentially UK261 honoured except during school holidays (assuming VS cancelled)!
Would recommend trying the messaging service dedicated to rebooking/rerouting.
1. https://help.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/contact-forms.html
2. Click on Re-book
3. Then click on the link for “rebooking bot and new messaging service”Chat agent was very helpful when I used it. Plus you would also have everything in writing if they refused to honour UK261 re-route.
I was rebooked with Air France for these dates. Best bet is to email the CEO
I had the same happen to me. Had two UC flights.
I just accepted due to covid..& politics route cancelled. Took it on the chin. Rebooked via middle east. Route was cancelled a while back so plenty of time to rebook.Thanks for all the help! This was via the live chat. Will try calling and then email CEO. Less than 3 months left, hope they will respond by then. Flights are way too expensive now unfortunately to take a refund and book myself.
Thanks for all the help! This was via the live chat. Will try calling and then email CEO. Less than 3 months left, hope they will respond by then. Flights are way too expensive now unfortunately to take a refund and book myself.
Whatever you do: don’t accept a refund or flights not matching your preference.
Ask VS what airlines they will accept rebooking you into and then check if they offer tickets on the dates you want for the class you had booked. If VS still opposes booking those you may need to book yourself and then send them the bill. For that to succeed make sure you keep track of all communication and give them ample time to reply back. This is clearly a UK261 case and shouldn’t come with so many string attached.
It surprises me how many VS/Ana issues I have seen here compared to BA tbh. Wondering if that’s how they pay for the clubhouse peloton bikes. (BA simply says no but doesn’t come up with made up rules)
So.. I called Virgin last week and the agent booked me onto the flights I requested. But the flights didn’t get ticketed, so I called again yesterday and was told this was because of the blackout period and that I need to choose a different date, or a refund. Wrote an email to CEO and now waiting, maybe I should start CEDR in parallel.
I had exactly the same issue for family of 4 upper class tickets
After a lot of toing anf froing and my quoting the Eu261 rules + CAA guidance etc they agreed to my proposal of rebooking on Cathay. Live chat was useless but to be fair the CEO email team were very quick to respond.According to the CAA website Virgin use AviationADR rather than CEDR.
I doubt your case will be concluded before the date that you need to fly so you may find that you need to stump up the cost of the new tickets and then pursue them through arbitration which of course has a financial risk should you lose.
So.. I called Virgin last week and the agent booked me onto the flights I requested. But the flights didn’t get ticketed, so I called again yesterday and was told this was because of the blackout period and that I need to choose a different date, or a refund. Wrote an email to CEO and now waiting, maybe I should start CEDR in parallel.
The Executive Team is usually pretty prompt at responding, and in my experience good at sorting out this type of thing. Hopefully they will do so in your case as well.
Just got a call back from the executive team, and they are also unable to rebook onto the original date of the original flight. They are only offering that I come back two days later or get a refund.
Have now raised a case with AviationADR.Let us know about your experience with AviationADR. I don’t think we have much information on here as to the experience in using them.
Just got a call back from the executive team, and they are also unable to rebook onto the original date of the original flight. They are only offering that I come back two days later or get a refund.
Have now raised a case with AviationADR.Have they given any reason? I mean if the flights are literally all fully booked, then fair enough. If you don’t *have* to be back on your original date, you could perhaps tell them you’ll accept two days later so long as they cover your additional accommodation costs etc for the extended stay – which, as you’re trying to travel on your original dates rather than rebooking in the future, ought to be covered under EU261 duty of care provisions, I would have thought? And if you’d incur extra costs like additional parking at the origin airport, or rebooked trains etc, ask for that as well.
Because apparently, Cathay Pacific is not allowing them to book flights during that blackout period. But plenty of available seats for cash.
Dear Mr. xx,
Thank you for taking my call today.
In line with Regulation 261/2004, as we have given more than 14 days’ notice about your flight disruption our customers would be offered several options. This includes the option to cancel the flights and receive a full refund or rebook to another destination or a different date.
We have offered you an alternative flight with Cathay Pacific however, the dates offered are not suitable for you. Unfortunately, the dates that you have requested are unavailable for us to book as Cathay Pacific will not allow us to book those dates due to it being a blackout period. As Cathay Pacific are a completely separate company from ourselves, we cannot control which flights they allow us to book.
Full information about schedules and cancellations are detailed under our ‘conditions of carriage’. This can be found online at https://help.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/policies/conditions-of-carriage/article-21.html
Please note that we are not refusing to rebook you, the blackout period will end on the 19th April 2023 so you can change your return date to that date, if you decide to do so you can call our Customer Centre team on – 03448747747.
Alternatively, you still have the option of a travel voucher or a refund.
Kind regards,
xxx
Executive OfficeVirgin Atlantic Airways Ltd
The “as we have given more than 14 days’ notice about your flight disruption” seems to be a bit of a common theme – BA try that on as well. The *only* relevance that has is to compensation. It makes no difference at all to your right to rebooking/reroute etc, or to duty of care. Fair enough if it really is Cathay preventing them from booking you on your required date (though it sounds to me like a fob-off excuse), but other airlines are available. The law requires them to reroute you – there is no stipulation that this is limited only to those airlines they have an agreement with. I would research what airlines have flights available for sale that would be acceptable to you then go back to them and propose that. For what it’s worth, before they sorted out their agreement with Cathay, they rebooked me on Emirates (not ideal – it meant a 25 hour itinerary via Bangkok and Dubai in lieu of a direct flight, but at least they did do it – they refused Cathay). “14 days notice” and “rebook to another destination” are both utter BS, and shame on Virgin for trying it on (I’m surprised tbh, the executive team is usually better than that).
Have to say though, if it were me, I’d have 2 extra days in Hong Kong at their expense 😉 But I appreciate your circumstances may prevent you from being able to do that.
I suppose if you wanted to play sleuth, you could call Cathay and ask if they actually do have a blackout period for Virgin on those dates 😉
Personally, as also advised above, unless you absolutely can’t, I would stay the two extra days at Virgin’s expense. It’s a bit late now as you have already gone to arbitration, but if you are adamant about the date, the correct response to the EO should have been that CX is not the only airline flying this route directly or indirectly, nor is it your problem that VS has only elected to come to a rather limited commercial arrangement with just one airline that is realistically going to be unable to absorb the all the VS cancelled passengers. The legislation also doesn’t provide for VS to impose blackout dates and the fact CX is a third party is completely irrelevant; VS is de facto imposing the blackout. They could pay CX the asking price rather than the negotiated price!
Rather than have this stuck in arbitration for weeks (with a possibly uncertain outcome) you could still send the EO a letter setting out the above, and citing the relevant paras + enclosing the UK261 legislation, CAA Guidance and CAA/CMA letter. Give them various flight options you would consider acceptable which have availability. They may prefer to sort you out so you can withdraw your claim.
Yes, I gave up now and accepted the flight two days later, thankfully we can both work remotely. Not worth all the hassle, at least I got certainty now. Also I agree the “executive team” was quite disappointing.
But I will definitely try to claim the extra two days of accommodation, worst case small claims court fees aren’t that high for £400 of hotel costs vs £8000 for new premium economy flights.@petter2 it’s not ideal, but better to have the issue resolved. In order to protect your position in respect of a future Article 9 claim for two hotel nights plus food, I would write to the EO saying that you have now rebooked two days later but that is entirely involuntary and that although they state in the email they have not refused to reroute you per your travel dates, that is objectively incorrect per the law and documents cited in above posts demonstrate VS has not complied with the law or guidance for the interpretation thereof by their regulators. It is unreasonable of VS to force you to go to arbitration to assert your basic statutory rights following their unilateral decision to abandon the HKG route. Ask them to confirm up front that they will cover the costs that you estimate to be approximately x.
A wise decision, I think. Almost certainly a lot less stressful than going through the whole arbitration process, whatever the rights and wrongs of the arguments etc. At least you have certainty now, and a direct flight home.
I think ideally you would have got them to agree in writing before you accepted the flight that they would cover your additional costs, but even if you didn’t, it sounds to me like a straightforward duty of care case, given they didn’t give you any earlier option, so hopefully they’ll pay up when you send them your receipts without any issue. Just make sure your costs are ‘reasonable’ – eg extra nights at the same hotel/room you were already booked in (or if you can’t extend your stay there and need to change, I recall seeing here that £200 a night is generally considered reasonable, but others may be able to advise better); also meals at average local rates (no need to skimp, but don’t go overboard ;-), no alcohol.
@Jon the £200 is I think a number BA gives when they hand printed sheets at LHR and it should be per person. It’s whatever is reasonable wherever you are and as you say, staying in the hotel you were in is eminently reasonable even if more expensive. Re alcohol, there is absolutely nothing to say it can’t be included; it’s a myth that has been carried through many posts here. For many, some alcohol is an integral part of lunch or dinner – I have always sent the full bill and never been refused. Again, the bill should be reasonable for the location. In May I claimed (amongst other things) £105 for dinner for one in Reykjavik where restaurants are very expensive. BA paid.
Thanks @JDB, good to know – my understanding is largely based on received wisdom here 😉 Fair enough re alcohol – I imagine it’s more a case of a glass of wine or beer or two with a typical dinner is probably fine, while lobster Thermidor and a bottle of champagne, let alone going the full Mr Creosote, probably is not 😉
I guess the key thing for the OP is just be prepared to have an explanation for anything that could potentially not be deemed reasonable (it’s such a vague term in the first place, but I guess things like screenshots of a range of local hotel prices, photo of hotel restaurant menu etc, are probably useful to take as benchmarks, just in case).
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