How long on the naughty step?

[Kelvin K]

I had all my cards cancelled in April last year. I left it 12 months and applied for the Gold card and was turned down.
I recently applied again and was turned down again. The agent said it was either my credit card score, or it was their internal scoring system – but couldn’t advise further.

As my credit score is excellent, 999 on Experian, its clearly the internal scoring system. How long do I need to sit on naughty step for?

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

If Amex cancelled all your cards you must have been very naughty indeed and has decided they don’t want you as a customer.

And Amex, like elephants and mothers, never forget.

Move on.

[Andrew.]

The Experian, Equifax, Transunion, Clearscore scores are only their interpretation of the data they hold. When I see a “999” score I’m always suspicious of it anyway, it’s one of those things that just never “smells” right. A bit like someone quoting me a round number for a cost. Give me a nice 972, 983, 991 instead – it feels more real.

If Amex have cancelled your cards, probably give it 6 years since the last application, throw in a couple of changes of address, and maybe change your name by deed poll or transition gender.

[TGLoyalty]

How longs a piece of string? Only Amex can answer this. Someone else’s experience won’t even be relevant.

[Swiss Jim]

So tell us, it’s all we really want to know. What did you do?

[Kelvin K]

It will have been excessive use of PayPal F&F

[zapato1060]

Kelvin Kelvin Kelvin. On a more serious note I would have expected 12 months to be enough but then it must have been serious, and I hope worth it in your eyes. BTW were you running serious f&f?

[zapato1060]

zapato1060 wrote:

Kelvin Kelvin Kelvin. On a more serious note I would have expected 12 months to be enough but then it must have been serious, and I hope worth it in your eyes. BTW were you running serious f&f?

😀 I left my message before your reply so I get the gold star.

[Skywalker]

Kelvin K wrote:

It will have been excessive use of PayPal F&F

Hmmm. In these cases just think of Amex as “Bitter-Ex” – they neither forgive nor forget!

Do you still have your PP account?

PP can be quite stern as well.

[can2]

Just out of curiosity: did you move in the meantime or change phone numbers?

Was everything the same when you reapplied?

It makes me think if you did PP f&f you’d know that’ll end your relationship with Amex. So why bother reapplying ?

[MTM]

Apologies for whats probably a silly question but what is Paypal f&f ?

[Roberto]

PayPal friends and Family – sending money and avoiding any PayPal charges.

[bjd]

Kelvin K wrote:

It will have been excessive use of PayPal F&F

Id really love to know the definition of excessive here lol – are we talking 5 digits excessive ?

[zapato1060]

bjd wrote:

Kelvin K wrote:

It will have been excessive use of PayPal F&F

Id really love to know the definition of excessive here lol – are we talking 5 digits excessive ?

Heard of weekly. That says it all.

[JDB]

I don’t believe Amex has any fixed threshold, it’s more the overall pattern and extent of a cardholder’s spending, so some people could do more PayPal F&F than others without any issue. As ever, it’s a matter of behaving reasonably.

Amex has in general got a bit tighter/more discriminating about welcoming people back after any sort of ‘break’ and less willing to extend excessive credit.

[WoodyYork]

OP- I’d love to know how much/often you were putting through PayPal F&F.

I’m nervous to use it even for legit reasons!

[Kelvin K]

can2 wrote:

Just out of curiosity: did you move in the meantime or change phone numbers?

Was everything the same when you reapplied?

It makes me think if you did PP f&f you’d know that’ll end your relationship with Amex. So why bother reapplying ?

everything same.
Address, phone, email – all identical

[Kelvin K]

WoodyYork wrote:

OP- I’d love to know how much/often you were putting through PayPal F&F.

I’m nervous to use it even for legit reasons!

probably around £10k to £12k per month.

I’m going to leave it now, wait for the full 2 years because SUBs will re-appear. If AMEX dont want it after 2 years then I suspect its game over.

[Skywalker]

Kelvin K wrote:

WoodyYork wrote:

OP- I’d love to know how much/often you were putting through PayPal F&F.

I’m nervous to use it even for legit reasons!

probably around £10k to £12k per month.

I’m going to leave it now, wait for the full 2 years because SUBs will re-appear. If AMEX dont want it after 2 years then I suspect its game over.

To a lender those levels may look like money laundering. Have you checked to see if you have a CIFAS marker against you?

If you have, your naughty step duration may last a lot longer than the two years you intend to wait. Some markers last for six years.

[jj]

Quite unlikely to have a CIFAS restriction on a mere suspicion. The reporting standards require a higher level of confidence of actual wrongdoing. Application fraud (eg inflated income) would get you on CIFAS; unexplained transactions wouldn’t do much more that yet you reported to the specialist police unit that monitors these things…harmless unless you’re actually doing something criminal.

[bjd]

Kelvin K wrote:

probably around £10k to £12k per month.

That’s insane. There’s me feeling guilty for a 1k transaction per 2 year card cycle.

[danimal]

bjd wrote:

Kelvin K wrote:

probably around £10k to £12k per month.

That’s insane. There’s me feeling guilty for a 1k transaction per 2 year card cycle.

That is insane. Game over. You’ve been a very naughty boy.

[Harrier25]

Amex will never have you back.

[Amit1989]

I know on Amex PayPal f+f is frowned upon… But has anyone any idea with other cards such as barclays ba or virgin? Do they also keep a strict eye on this?

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Amit1989 wrote:

I know on Amex PayPal f+f is frowned upon… But has anyone any idea with other cards such as barclays ba or virgin? Do they also keep a strict eye on this?

They are happy with it until they decide they aren’t happy with it.

Feeling lucky?