Response from Virgin re Points Redemption

[paul-uk]

3 days ago, I sent an email to Mr Weiss at Virgin to complain about the new “improved” [cough] fluid points redemption.

Here is my email – followed by their response;

Dear Mr Weiss

I feel compelled to write with regard to the absurd Virgin Points devaluation being passed-off as some sort of benefit to your loyal customers.

Until now, Virgin has been my airline of choice to the USA and back (your route network being somewhat limited for other destinations) – I use Virgin Points collected across many, many months to enjoy your Upper Class experience; and don’t complain too much about your high carrier imposed surcharge.

I could book 331 days out and always secured my UC booking at 95,000 Points for a return fare.

However, you have now managed to alienate me from ever booking with Virgin again. My Virgin Credit Card is about to be cut in two.

My Points balance and vouchers will be spent and then it’s across to Avios redemption or even a cashback card and full market choice for my next flight bookings.

The flawed reasoning behind your change is that customers can now book any seat using Points and that nobody will be worse off.

I looked at a just released one-way flight MIA-LHR on November 5th 2025.

My 47,500 one-way Upper Class redemption is now going to cost me at least 80,000 (flights on other days are as high as 200,000 points).

How is that a benefit you can pass off? Why should customers like me save Points toward what may be a dream holiday for many; only for you to devalue their effort? Why should we trust you not to devalue Points again next year, what possible incentive do we have to keep you flying?

You promote your “saver” fares. I have checked every day from now to Nov 5th next year and there are ZERO saver fares on any date in Upper Class. You have blessed us with your “any seat, any flight redemptions” but we have to pay as many as 200,000 Points per seat.

I urge you to bring back the guaranteed 12 seats per flight priced at the prior redemption amounts (after all, you are still advertising these on your website). By all means offer fluid pricing on additional seat redemptions to attract a wider, Points-rich audience if you wish.

Looking at the feedback on websites like Head for Points and your horrendous (4-page PDF) PR failure for the Travel Talk group, you must surely now take note of the growing backlash to the changes imposed upon us.

Regards

So, they just emailed back

Hello Paul

Kind regards,

[name removed]
Executive Office
Virgin Atlantic
http://www.virginatlantic.com

If you wish to respond please just click “reply” to this email to ensure your individual Case VSCR-[removed] is updated and we will get back to you as soon as we can.

TBH I was hoping for a little more.

Then the phone rang with an incoming call from Virgin – it lasted 18 seconds while I repeated “Hello? Hello?” before being cut off.

A few moments later, the phone rang again. Another call from Virgin – that one lasted 16 seconds of my “Hello? Hello?” before being cut off again.

Virgin Customer Service at it’s very best !!

[JDB]

@paul-uk like Lauren, Shai ain’t bovvered. Anyway, since his airline is all running so well he doesn’t need to spend time on that, so he’s busy telling the government and Heathrow what to do.

[PeteM]

I suspect you will eventually get a very similar answer to the one I got and posted here: https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/virgin-atlantic-points-even-worth-it-anymore/

[paul-uk]

I’ve just had an actual phone call from the Executive Office.

The lady I spoke to confirmed they had received a LOT of negative feedback on the changes – which will be fed back to Mr Weiss and the Executive Team during a weekly meeting they have.

To be honest, I felt I’d got just the same amount of feedback from the 2 silent phone calls I’d had from her.

More people need to email Mr Weiss for this to gain some traction – his email is shai.weiss@fly.virgin.com

[paul-uk]

They just sent a follow up email

Hello Paul

Thank you for taking the time to speak with me.

As always, we really do appreciate all feedback. Whilst we aren’t able to change the system as it stands, the feedback is still being collated and reviewed.

As discussed, the system will remain in place as it is currently and whilst I can’t make any promises as to whether or not things will change, I can assure you that we will make customers aware if any changes are to be made to the Reward System.

I do hope that we are able to make you happy again in some way with regard to your forthcoming bookings. I want you to know that we truly do appreciate your loyalty.

We look forward to welcoming you onboard again in the not too distant future.

Kind regards,

[name removed]
Executive Office
Virgin Atlantic
http://www.virginatlantic.com

[Pongos waring]

If you’re able to go on 3 November it’s 55k, there are other dates throughout the year with cheaper rates but I get the point it’s not as instantly available

[NorthernLass]

My assumption is that they either saw this coming and just braced themselves for impact and negative publicity re families who’ve saved points for years for a dream trip to Orlando, or they’re really too thick to be running a large business 🤷‍♀️😂

Sweet spot seems to be MAN-ATL. My UC flight in March now costs less than when I booked it using the voucher for an upgrade, but I really can’t be bovvered cancelling and rebooking 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

[paul-uk]

Pongos waring wrote:

If you’re able to go on 3 November it’s 55k, there are other dates throughout the year with cheaper rates but I get the point it’s not as instantly available

Im flying back to the UK after getting off a cruise so no option to come back earlier – but WHY should I be prepared to alter my plans to fit in with Virgins points devaluation?

As I said to the Agent, I will just fly to the Med etc for my cruises and not bother going to the US once my points have been wiped out. Probably save me a fortune on my travel insurance too

[paul-uk]

NorthernLass wrote:

My assumption is that they either saw this coming and just braced themselves for impact and negative publicity re families who’ve saved points for years for a dream trip to Orlando, or they’re really too thick to be running a large business 🤷‍♀️😂

I reminded them that previously people would rush to book the few available redemption seats available – but now there is no incentive. In fact, there is no incentive for anyone to book in advance at all.

Where you have a product with a limited shelf life (eg you cannot sell an airline seat once the plane has taken off) the aim is to sell enough to cover your costs and as quickly as you can – then, you can play with raising/lowering prices at your whim based upon demand. Let’s call it Dynamic Pricing !!

However, Virgin seem to think you can start by dynamically ripping people off for that product with the limited “shelf-life” – and it CANNOT work.

What happens when prices (or points) are too high and you’ve shouted that from now on prices will fluctuate is that customers wait and wait, only opening their wallets when THEY feel the price is right for them.

When you get to the stage where too many people are waiting and waiting, your products “sell by” date gets closer and much harder to sell.

You then have to dump the price to fill seats or you fly half-empty – neither of which makes for a healthy business.

But what also happens is that your customers delay their purchase even longer in the hope of those last-minute bargains and you’re in a downward spiral to bankruptcy.

Virgin need to get a grip and return to basic business economics and get bums on seats as quickly as possible, cover their costs AND THEN offer Dynamic Pricing to those prepared to pay.

[davefl]

NorthernLass wrote:

My assumption is that they either saw this coming and just braced themselves for impact and negative publicity re families who’ve saved points for years for a dream trip to Orlando, or they’re really too thick to be running a large business 🤷‍♀️😂

Sweet spot seems to be MAN-ATL. My UC flight in March now costs less than when I booked it using the voucher for an upgrade, but I really can’t be bovvered cancelling and rebooking 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

That’s because they’re crap planes, and crap lounges in both directions on that route. Then you have to suffer ATL immigration, and typically an overnight stay to get anywhere from ATL.

I just looked and yes I can see savers at a level that was previously more expensive in both cash and points but there are also one ways at 350k points which is ludicrous. About the only advantage I can see is that ATL-MAN YQ as a one way has been substantially reduced if you can find a saver fare, obviously to encourage the US crowd. So in future I may go out to the US via Dub because AE have a wide range of destinations from Dub, and then return via ATL. AE don’t rip you off on one way cash fares unlike BA.

[NorthernLass]

All true, @davefl, but there was no easy route for us to get to BIM so thought we may as well use VS points and voucher, and at least avoid LHR!

I think to use our next voucher I’ll make sure there’s space in my diary for a visit to NYC and try & find saver seats. Maybe return on the BA day flight.

But who knows, I might even strike it lucky for our 2026 MLE trip, if VS doesn’t pull the route before then 🤷‍♀️😂

[paul-uk]

The saga continues………..

Hello

Thank You for the telephone call and follow-up email today.

Acknowledging that my time with Virgin is now likely to be limited, I chose to go ahead and book the 2 one-way MIA-LHR flights I’d mentioned on our phone call; at a cost of 168,000 points (against the previous 95,000). We have 220,000 points and a voucher between us to offload (with another voucher arriving shortly).

So, I used the Chat function on your website; where I was cut off after waiting in a queue for 30 minutes. I decided to try again as I was sitting in front of my desktop; and was again cut off after a 30 minute wait.

I decided to call instead. I called SIX TIMES. I selected option 3 as a customer, then option 1 to book with points/voucher.

On the first two calls I was cut off after a while. On two calls I chose the “Upper Class” enquiry option and was on hold with the same annoying song for an extended period before I simply gave up.

I have just spent nearly 2 hours attempting to book a flight that can only be booked via chat or by phone due to the voucher element.

I guess the excitement now is whether that flight will cost me more or less tomorrow than it would have today. You can imagine how I shall feel if it is going to cost me even more tomorrow.

Your system did inform me that calls are recorded so you can maintain your “sky high service levels”. Perhaps it’s time for a new recording.

Regards
Paul

[JohnF]

Just been looking where we can go the second half of 2026 by looking at what is available in 2025. Barbados was a crazy 150000+ points in UC whereas Mumbai was around 50000!!! At the moment it looks as though an interesting trip to India could be an interesting holiday.
Paul you have hit the nail right on the head. Most of us have some idea of what points various flights cost and will wait until the price drops. Infrequent and school holiday flyers will look and see very high points needed and probably not realise there might be a price drop later so will simply look at other options.

I wrote to Executive and got similar response but to anyone reading this do get your email off to Shei or Executive or Customer Service.

[HampshireHog]

NorthernLass wrote:

My assumption is that they either saw this coming and just braced themselves for impact and negative publicity re families who’ve saved points for years for a dream trip to Orlando, or they’re really too thick to be running a large business 🤷‍♀️😂

Sweet spot seems to be MAN-ATL. My UC flight in March now costs less than when I booked it using the voucher for an upgrade, but I really can’t be bovvered cancelling and rebooking 🤦🏻‍♀️😂

My assumption is that they are too thick and sadly the second rate management team have made a series of decisions of which this is only the latest likely accelerate their demise

[HampshireHog]

JohnF wrote:

Just been looking where we can go the second half of 2026 by looking at what is available in 2025. Barbados was a crazy 150000+ points in UC whereas Mumbai was around 50000!!! At the moment it looks as though an interesting trip to India could be an interesting holiday.
Paul you have hit the nail right on the head. Most of us have some idea of what points various flights cost and will wait until the price drops. Infrequent and school holiday flyers will look and see very high points needed and probably not realise there might be a price drop later so will simply look at other options.

I wrote to Executive and got similar response but to anyone reading this do get your email off to Shei or Executive or Customer Service.

The expression “flogging a dead horse” sadly comes to mind

[JDB]

@HampshireHog – The people currently at the top of Virgin aren’t thick – it’s pretty hard to get to the top of a large business without a reasonable level of intelligence, but they are very incompetent managers and leaders. They do have a very difficult job given the tensions of the shareholding structure, but they are still doing a very poor job overall. If VS were a listed company, the share price would tell the story and the vibes surrounding the company are very bad.

The move to dynamic redemption pricing is the least of it and time will tell whether it works for them or not. Huge numbers of people said they would stop flying BA, the world would end etc. when BA moved to revenue based Avios earning, aligned the TP year ends, upped the BA 241 spend to £15k.

[Blair Waldorf Salad]

I took nearly an hour yesterday on the Gold line to make a change of date on the return leg of an award booking. The agent kept pricing up the fare difference as 119,000 points. I kept saying that was clearly wrong as it was failing to factor in the credit card voucher’s effect.

In the end I had to cancel my entire booking and get a new booking made, for a paltry 5,000 extra points fare difference. But of course, cancellation attracts a £70 fee whereas a date change is free for Golds.

I will thus be writing to ask for my £70 back, since it is the inability of agents to handle the new system that caused the charge. I felt bad for the two phone agents I spoke to. I said it is a real shame how Virgin agents used to be so highly regarded at getting all sorts of things sorted with leeway other airlines didn’t seem to offer their phoneline staff. They both said the new system has not worked on their IT the way they expected, there is confusion every day, and they’re getting very negative feedback from passengers.

[davefl]

Their IT random number generator is utterly bizarre. Seeing MAN-BGI days in Feb where it’s 16,500 for PE and 20,000 for Econ, then days where UC is 350,000

[paul-uk]

davefl wrote:

Their IT random number generator is utterly bizarre. Seeing MAN-BGI days in Feb where it’s 16,500 for PE and 20,000 for Econ, then days where UC is 350,000

Try MIA-LHR on November 6th at 21.35 for 2

Economy Classic
15,000
+US$145 tax

Premium
500,000
+US$362 tax

Upper Class
210,000
+US$947 tax

Economy is a bargain at 7,500 per person, but how can Premium be more than double the price of Upper?

[JDB]

Well in the olden days, VS had the best lounge around and was a quirky, fun, good quality challenger airline. Now it has an overcrowded lacklustre lounge with a tinpot airline on the side and it’s all run by clowns, so what can be expected? I’m glad I sacked Virgin a long time ago when my neighbour had a pedicure while I was having dinner, which shows how long ago that was! While people may not agree with it and it may not suit them, BA/IAG has a very clear strategy something that seems absent at Virgin.

[JDB]

paul-uk wrote:

davefl wrote:

Their IT random number generator is utterly bizarre. Seeing MAN-BGI days in Feb where it’s 16,500 for PE and 20,000 for Econ, then days where UC is 350,000

Economy is a bargain at 7,500 per person, but how can Premium be more than double the price of Upper?

Because Premium is very popular with cash buyers and sells early in the booking window (earlier than UC) so they don’t want to give it away cheaply for redemptions. It’s entirely logical but how that ultimately works out for the long term and for loyalty, who knows.

[paul-uk]

Well, despite trying for 2 hours yesterday followed by an hour on hold this morning, I managed to book our one way flights next November.

Of course, due to the lack of available staff, the Premium had increased by 2,000 points each since yesterday.

Our flight is now 86,000 Points in Premium so cost us that plus a Voucher to Upgrade into Upper.

Prior to the new “customer requested improvements” that flight would have cost us 47,500 with the Voucher.

I’m not feeling all fuzzy inside following this “improvement for customers”.

[paul-uk]

For those that say complaining falls on deaf ears, it doesn’t always.

Last night, I had followed-up my original complaint regarding the points devaluation to explain the issues of actually trying to make a booking yesterday.

The Executive Office has just called (again) and have offered 10,000 Points by way of an apology.

So, my inflated booking next November is now slightly less inflated.

If people don’t take the time to raise their concerns (a) they aren’t heard (b) you get no resolution.

[JDB]

@paul-uk – A complaint like your follow up, made after actually experiencing/suffering an issue is always likely to be better received.

[paul-uk]

JDB wrote:

@paul-uk – A complaint like your follow up, made after actually experiencing/suffering an issue is always likely to be better received.

Of course, but I dont believe the offer would have been anywhere near 10,000 had I simply complained about a delay booking (without the previous communication)

They are quite good once on the aircraft when things aren’t working. Faulty headphones, seat recline, no entertainment screen are all examples Ive had in the last 18 months and usually warrant 8,000 in compo for each. Though I’d rather have a fully reclining seat that Ive paid for and not a few points.