Sending my partner my share of the rent over PayPal with Amex

[baVid]

Do T&C’s get broken when these types of transactions get made, or is this simply an unwritten principle being broken (using Amex as cash equivalent ‘masked’ otherwise).

I’m just trying to understand in my head how the average Joe could otherwise understand this is ‘wrong’ and not unwittingly get their accounts blocked.

[John]

Ash wrote:

NorthernLass wrote:

Just being Devil’s advocate, how would Amex know if the person was in the same household?

Addresses on amex accounts would be the same – if you are cohabiting.

Amex doesn’t know what address is on your paypal.

knight123 wrote:

RTS wrote:

bye bye gravy train.

Sorry, not really sure what you mean?

NorthernLass wrote:

I think @RTS means that if it was this simple everyone would be doing it and they feel that this is probably not going to end well!

Haha, yes, bye bye indeed 🙁

If you know you know. Well, assuming RTS is talking about paypal, as I don’t mess with Amex. Just waiting a bit to see if I can cash out the last bit of money (same sort of thing happened towards the end of 3V).

[MingTheMerciless]

The Streets wrote:

It’s not completely rocket science this. Of all the MS I do this is one I avoid.. not worth the risks

Having abused a huge number of institutions….

Froggee wrote:

But, but, but, remember how Creation customer services taught us how to rinse millions through their cards?

And it ended just swimmingly.

That ended like this…

Even I haven’t played this game.

[Rui N.]

Froggee wrote:

But, but, but, remember how Creation customer services taught us how to rinse millions through their cards?

And it ended just swimmingly.

Creation lasted much longer than anyone could have expected. If all opps were like that, this game would be much easier.

[Carlos]

Imagine getting blacklisted from using Paypal for at least 5-10 years. Not worth the risk

[PeteM]

Carlos wrote:

Imagine getting blacklisted from using Paypal for at least 5-10 years.

Is it such a big deal these days, now it’s off eBay?

[Aston100]

PeteM wrote:

Carlos wrote:

Imagine getting blacklisted from using Paypal for at least 5-10 years.

Is it such a big deal these days, now it’s off eBay?

I find PayPal to be reasonably useful.
There have been several occasions where I’ve used it with an underlying Amex when the (online) retailer wouldn’t accept Amex directly.
Also, friends & family payment when used conservatively, and always for genuine reasons.

[redlilly]

Wouldn’t use PayPal when you can use another credit card (other than Amex), as you don’t get the s75 protection. I don’t think it is worth losing that just for a few avios/points.

As much as PayPal is great, it doesn’t dominate the market as much as it used too. Furthermore, if you were banned from using it (not that I think you would be in this instance having researched it extensively) I don’t think it is much of a biggy given there are alternatives out there.

My main issue with this (paying rent to OH via PayPal) is the exit fees the recipient has to pay on cashing out the money. I looked in to whether it would be worth it, but again, given the amount of rent OH and I pay per month, I can’t see it being worth it for the sake of a few avios. However, given we both have large work expenses bills, we don’t have an issue with getting to minimum spend targets etc.

[Rui N.]

Recipient doesn’t pay fees on friends and family transactions, just commercial ones.

[redlilly]

Rui N. wrote:

Recipient doesn’t pay fees on friends and family transactions, just commercial ones.

Read somewhere it was 2.9% when payment is made via credit card under friends and family… and the charge is paid by either sender or recipient. Perhaps I am reading out of date information.

I have only received money from a “friend” in the USA, and I was not on his friends and family list. I didn’t get charged anything. So lots of this is new to me.

[Aston100]

redlilly wrote:

Read somewhere it was 2.9% when payment is made via credit card under friends and family… and the charge is paid by either sender or recipient. Perhaps I am reading out of date information.

Rui is correct.

[JDB]

Aston100 wrote:

redlilly wrote:

Read somewhere it was 2.9% when payment is made via credit card under friends and family… and the charge is paid by either sender or recipient. Perhaps I am reading out of date information.

Rui is correct.

Therein lies the problem – PayPal loses money on these transactions, so while not specifying any limits, sometimes gets upset. Amex also accepts such transactions up to a point, but can decide they are excessive and/or are cash like transactions.

[tbtb31]

NorthernLass wrote:

Also Revolut. As noted points-collector Georg Hegel said, “History teaches us that man learns nothing from history.”

Undoubtedly the classiest quote I’ve ever read in an internet forum

[RTS]

This is probably one of the most entertaining threads I have read on here in a while. The unstoppable force vs the immovable object.

[Rui N.]

redlilly wrote:

Rui N. wrote:

Recipient doesn’t pay fees on friends and family transactions, just commercial ones.

Read somewhere it was 2.9% when payment is made via credit card under friends and family… and the charge is paid by either sender or recipient. Perhaps I am reading out of date information.

I have only received money from a “friend” in the USA, and I was not on his friends and family list. I didn’t get charged anything. So lots of this is new to me.

You don’t need to be on any lists. If it’s a personal payment, you can use F&F and it’s free fee. If it is a commercial transactions, then fees are due.

[IPC]

NorthernLass wrote:

Just being Devil’s advocate, how would Amex know if the person was in the same household?

It will appear on your Amex statement as PAYPAL *Persons Name*

[IPC]

baVid wrote:

Do T&C’s get broken when these types of transactions get made, or is this simply an unwritten principle being broken (using Amex as cash equivalent ‘masked’ otherwise).

I’m just trying to understand in my head how the average Joe could otherwise understand this is ‘wrong’ and not unwittingly get their accounts blocked.

It is manufactured spend and also a way of exceeding the cash limits on your Amex card.

Cash Limit – This is normally set at around 20% of your credit limit

Withdrawal Limit – withdraw within a single 30-day period max £1,000

And no 3% cash advance fee for Amex.

[NorthernLass]

@IPC – how does that tell Amex if someone if in the same household? It might raise suspicion if the surname is the same but that’s not necessarily going to be the case. And if you surname is very common, again that’s no guarantee that 2 of you live at the same address.

[Luca M]

I have always assumed that within the transaction data PayPal pass onto the Card Network, it include some coding about the transaction type (e.g. purchase of goods, service, others etc) and potentially they have indeed negotiated at some point some reduced fees for F&F transactions.

[SteveJ]

Comment here that someone who sent F&F had their card account closed by Amex. Amex won’t tell you why they close an account, but pretty nailed on that would be a reason.

https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/amex-card-suspended-and-then-cancelled/page/2/

[IPC]

NorthernLass wrote:

@IPC – how does that tell Amex if someone if in the same household? It might raise suspicion if the surname is the same but that’s not necessarily going to be the case. And if you surname is very common, again that’s no guarantee that 2 of you live at the same address.

They also hold American Express Cards, or financial links / associations.

As you do not buy into any of this, take a chance and roll the dice.

[NorthernLass]

Amex will literally have nothing but a name, and millions of customers. Are you telling me that if you send money to John Smith, Amex has a way of finding out who that is?!

If you read my comments you’ll see the phrase “devil’s advocate”. There are plenty of reasons not to abuse F & F but I don’t think Amex putting in the leg work to trace the recipient will be one of them.

[Rui N.]

Indeed. Amex will probably only care if F&F is being used constantly. If they do pay attention, they won’t care who do you send money to, and they won’t treat you better just because the people who you are sending money are not in your household.

[knight123]

It’s been a year since I made this post so I just thought I’d check in with an update 😀

I’ve continued to send my partner £600 over PayPal, using my Amex, every month and had no issues whatsoever.

As I’ve mentioned before – it’s a PayPal account I’ve had a long time, and use for other things, and my partner never sends me anything over PayPal so it doesn’t look like manufactured spend. I’ve also got messages from both Amex and PayPal customer support confirming there’s nothing wrong with doing this (I know that isn’t 100% watertight, but would be enough to challenge any issue, or speak to the financial ombudsman about).

Appreciate a lot of you will still be a bit cautious about it, but I really don’t think there’s cause to worry.

[Froggee]

Thank you for reporting back.