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FWIW when Virgin cancelled Hong Kong a while back I went through a few rounds of correspondence with their executive office, during which I referred to the then-recent joint letter to airlines from the CAA and CMA reminding them of their obligations. I also separately wrote to the CEOs of the CAA and CMA – they were responsive, though whether anything came of it beyond being a data point, I have no idea.
Possibly they had a word, as ultimately Virgin did re-route me (albeit via Bangkok and Dubai on Emirates, with a much longer total journey time – not ideal, and possibly not within the spirit of the regulations, but at least I was able to get there without the hassle of buying new tickets and chasing reimbursement etc).
Later, for another HKG-LHR booking, they re-routed me on Cathay, with much less persuasion required – I assume for the first one they hadn’t yet got their arrangements in place, but by the time of the second they had. And/or had had their wrists slapped 😉
IIRC there were issues with VS cancellations during the pandemic, and long delays in processing refunds (didn’t they get lots of Covid cash as well from the government/tax payer?)
I imagine they are hoping for as many refund requests as possible from uninformed customers off the back of the email, and will then offer re-routing to the more savvy ones who insist on the airline fulfilling its legal obligations.
@Jon it wouldn’t appear Virgin did get its wrists slapped in view of the brazenness of the email sent to the cancelled Shanghai passengers. That wholly inappropriate and potentially unlawful email comes from the No.2 (how appropriate) customer service executive at the airline so it is clearly an official policy. The boss is always keen to entertain the trade and press telling other airlines and airports how to do their jobs, so now he needs to put his own house in order.
Virgin should be required to send a corrected email in the coming hours and also required to revisit all the cases of the São Paulo and Hong Kong pax who were unwittingly bullied into taking a refund in the same manner that Wizz was held to account.
They did get their wrists slapped a bit during the pandemic:
I wasnt able to find an email for Louise Phillips, while Shai Weiss email seemed to be turning up as shaisocial, which sounds a bit.. odd.
When they have cancelled routes previously, have they gone silent after sending out the cancellation emails and tried to pretend that rerouting doesnt exist or do they proactively send out a rerouting email later?
@slidey it’s first name dot last name at fly dot virgin dot com
Louise’s boss is Corneel Koster Head of Bad Customer Experience.
The newish CEO of the CAA is Rob dot Bishton at caa dot co dot uk
On previous route cancellations they still made life difficult or ignored messages when people escalated to the CEO’s office, so it may take that external pressure just to get them to comply with the rules.
Any future promotion of VS services or VS points on this site should come with the health warning “caution : VS has repeatedly refused or made it difficult for customers to access their legal entitlement to alternative travel in the event of route cancellation”
But it’s not like VS is the only airline to do this!
Has anyone emailed Simon Calder yet?
@NorthernLass – the big difference here is that a senior executive of Virgin Atlantic is openly sending an email in her name that fails to inform passengers of their rights and essentially tries to induce them into taking a refund which for many people would be wholly against their best interests. It comes against the background of similar fact behaviour on the two other recently pulled routes.
I don’t think you realise just how serious a misstep this is and that it’s actually not how other airlines behave.
BA not only gives a link with details of your statutory rights but has a clear and consistent rebooking policy for a variety of scenarios. Yes, agents may not always be very co-operative or knowledgeable about what they are allowed to do.
“a senior executive of Virgin Atlantic is openly sending an email in her name that fails to inform passengers of their rights and essentially tries to induce them into taking a refund”
Completely agree this is utterly fatal. Having done some time in corporate governance and reputation management, I am stunned how that email made it out the door.
@JDB, I was referring to VS’s behaviour during the pandemic, when the issue of refunds was a huge problem across the industry.
But other airlines definitely behave like this. On this site there are numerous examples, say, of QR and IB trying to wriggle out of honouring passenger rights, where applicable. The LCCs haven’t always covered themselves with glory, either. The BA link to statutory rights is a relatively recent addition.
I agree that this current move is quite outrageous though!
@NorthernLass – you have entirely missed the point.
Fortunately, most (and notably @BlairWaldorfSalad) will have understood that what is happening here is quite different.
PS it’s nice you think I’m so thick that I’m unaware of other airlines trying to wriggle out of their statutory obligations.
Sometimes if people neither have a dog in the fight nor understand the issues, it’s best not to comment.
Sometimes it’s also better not to comment if one’s main motivation is to belittle other readers 🙄. Sometimes, when it suits, one hears nothing but how the poor airlines are being ripped off by greedy passengers.
New member here, but I have contacted Simon Calder about this. Hopefully he will seek some answers (maybe even put some pressure on Virgin about this). Virgin are very reliant on their reputation as they are relatively small airline. Will be interesting to see how they respond to someone with a huge social media following
@scb201 – welcome to HfP and thank you for contacting SC about this – hopefully he will pick up the story.
While they move painfully slowly, regulatory cogs have also started whirring this afternoon. The smoking gun email has caused some jaws to drop.
About 18 months ago, I joined this forum as I was having a problem with BA – flight to Shanghai, when they delayed the start up of the flights post Covid. I needed to travel on the dates I booked and both @JDB and @LadyLondon were so helpful, and eventually BA rerouted me via HK on CX.
Anyway, the key here is not to take the refund and hopefully the regulator and SC will take this up, so all passengers can be aware of their rights for rebooking and not to take a refund. Virgin have shown themselves to be out of touch with the reputational risk here, and that may ultimately cost them. While direct flights are preferable on BA and CE, there are multiple carriers with a one stop flight including AF, CX, LH, AY, EK, QR etc. so hopefully Virgin complies with their legal responsibilities and rebooks all those who need to travel. I did a trip from Shanghai via Doha in February (10 hour and 7 hour flights rather than 15 direct) and it was good to break the journey up.
When Virgin get around to offering reroutes, I assume that there should be no issues asking for the return flight to be on a different day than was originally booked if I wanted to extend the trip, in terms of legal right to change date?
When Virgin get around to offering reroutes, I assume that there should be no issues asking for the return flight to be on a different day than was originally booked if I wanted to extend the trip, in terms of legal right to change date?
I wouldn’t assume that you can change your booking in that manner. Article 8.1(c) does state: “re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience, subject to availability of seats.” but but what you are wanting is not really what it’s about. It’s definitely worth asking, but as above, you need to be careful not to push your luck. VS is being carried kicking and screaming to do the right thing, so may not be overly co-operative when they concede.
@JDB I agree that @slidey shouldn’t just assume anything, especially given the email from Louise but it is the passenger’s choice which remedy they take. It is not down to the airline which is why the email is wrong, given that it fails to fully inform passengers of their rights and also pushes them down the route of taking a refund.
The big issue with rerouting at a later date at the passenger’s convenience is the phrase “subject to availability of seats”. This phrase is a big get out for the airline especially if the ticket is a redemption since it can easily claim there are no reward seats even though the regulation doesn’t actually define what they mean by subject to availability of seats and normally it doesn’t require reward seats but just seats for sale in the same cabin as originally booked.
BA to their credit usually allow a window -3 days to +14 to rebook which would probably satisfy @slidey. But that’s BA and not Virgin and given the appalling direction that Virgin seem to be going towards a straight refund I would also be very wary of pushing too much unless they are prepared to try and on refusal pay good money and try the MCOL route.
Virgin are now rerouting. I got placed PE on BA after having a PE booking on points and voucher.
I would recommend you move fast if you want a direct flight. The other option ATM is SAS but it is indirect.
I second the rerouting. Was placed in BA in Premium Economy and appreciate their speedy resolution after making complaint to CEO office – have asked them to pursue the complaint regarding the email wording as it is still wrong. The excuse for not having rerouting options in place prior to the announcement is not really a get out, they control the flow of information and could’ve waited for having rerouting options in place before sending the email.
@AJA – BA’s Hong Kong rebooking policy is +/- 1 day. They are trying to re-accommodate people not give them the opportunity to change their holiday plans which seems fair enough. The aim is also to manage the flow of rebookings. The intended purpose of the “at the passenger’s convenience” phrase is, for example, to allow short trips to be rearranged at a future date as the cancellation stops the original journey being viable.
@manilabay – don’t thank Virgin for the speedy rerouting – they were not planning to offer that in the same way they didn’t do so properly for São Paulo and Hong Kong where you noted they got you to take a refund. Thank the CAA who also had the specific issue of PE in mind as not all airlines offer that class. The prima facie evidence in the email made their life easier! Virgin pretends to be all cuddly and nice but that’s just an illusion they try to create.Hi, how did you manage to get re routing?
I have just been told off by unhelpful chat.. How do you contact CEO office and what did you send them?@FlorianLondon – see above for the three Virgin email addresses – post at 09.58 yesterday. Also CAA CEO’s and the director of enforcement is Jonathan Spence. It’s quite unbelievable if they are either backtracking or not properly instructing staff to reroute.
I just called the customer service and said I wanted rerouting onto tbe specific BA flight as I understood they were now rerouting people. I then got put through to an ‘senior customer service agaent’ who did it with not push back.
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