Shanghai flights cancelled

[FlorianLondon]

Yyeeaaahhhh! I am now re-booked on BA. I do prefer Virgin but BA PE is going to be better than China Eastern Economy! They allowed me to rebook myself and sent me a link to get the refund. Costs me FX fees as booking was in RMB but I’m getting too tired to fight those fees..

[JDB]

FlorianLondon wrote:

Yyeeaaahhhh! I am now re-booked on BA. I do prefer Virgin but BA PE is going to be better than China Eastern Economy! They allowed me to rebook myself and sent me a link to get the refund. Costs me FX fees as booking was in RMB but I’m getting too tired to fight those fees..

Well done. This is a weird solution in that you are expected to do the work and fund the transaction (so not necessarily open to all) but at least it resolves the issue. There has been immense pressure going on behind the scenes so they now seem to be coming up with ideas they didn’t have following the São Paulo/Hong Kong route cancellations.

[HampshireHog]

Tbh I’d be wary of this rebooking it yourself scenario whatever the promises you received were. I do trust you’ve a copy of a web chat or similar?

[Lady London]

FlorianLondon wrote:

Yyeeaaahhhh! I am now re-booked on BA. I do prefer Virgin but BA PE is going to be better than China Eastern Economy! They allowed me to rebook myself and sent me a link to get the refund. Costs me FX fees as booking was in RMB but I’m getting too tired to fight those fees..

@florianlondon I’m afraid my thought on this was immediately the same as @HampshireHog’s.

I would absolutely ask Virgin to confirm this agreement to you by email now. Short of an email and given previous positioning by Virgin on this, I would be prepared for them to try and stiff you when you claim for that reimbursement. Btw my wording ‘prepared for’ is far lighter, than what I really wanted to say.

If they refuse then what @HampshireHog suggests is the minimum but hassle is highly likely to befall you without something in writing now.

[FlorianLondon]

I had to put some trust in Virgin. I got this confirmed via phone by the Executive office (friendly person, not like the ones trying to force me to accept whatever they wanted). The person knew all the details and my previous refusals. She checked prices for BA and told me that I should send her an email again if the price was to be different. Once booked, I sent a copy of the payment receipt and received a link one hour later to put my bank details so that they can reimburse me. Just need to wait now to see if the money comes back.

[Princess]

FlorianLondon wrote:

I had to put some trust in Virgin. I got this confirmed via phone by the Executive office (friendly person, not like the ones trying to force me to accept whatever they wanted). The person knew all the details and my previous refusals. She checked prices for BA and told me that I should send her an email again if the price was to be different. Once booked, I sent a copy of the payment receipt and received a link one hour later to put my bank details so that they can reimburse me. Just need to wait now to see if the money comes back.

@florianlondon did they allow you to buy a flexible ticket?

[JDB]

@Princess – hopefully the OP will answer you about his own situation but you need to research the cost of replacement tickets and get the EO to agree that cost upfront. This always comes down to reasonableness; if you have a non-refundable ticket, you can’t expect VS to pay for a fully flexible one. If you have a points ticket I think you would be pressed to argue that its equivalent is a fully flex one because terms like refund conditions would be weighed vs limited availability.

The basis of the rules is to put you back in the position you would have been had the route suspension not occurred, but not to enrich you.

Virgin is under massive pressure so they have moved a long way and are agreeing lots of things to avoid trouble but this new approach is not without limits. Please let us know how you get on as it helps everyone in your position.

[FlorianLondon]

I didn’t think about asking for a refundable ticket. In my situation, I am happy with the outcome.

[shug61]

Terrible customer service… Took the rebook option on CE yesterday, tried to select my seats today but I couldn’t find my booking on CE so made the call. They basically told me too bad I will have to do it at the airport. Also told me that once ticket is issued there is no way to change it. I argued that I was able to choose seats on my original ticket and it was changeable, so essentially they have taken both options away from me. They just hanged up on me. Never booking a virgin ticket again, luckily I don’t have that many points left, such a contrast to BA’s customer service in a similar situation.

[josh7410]

Got rebooked with BA no problem but no status with BA so no free seat selection. Tried normal customer service who couldn’t give an answer as to whether they would compensate for seat selection and only said I could try sending receipts after the flight and that they’d consider it. Tried emailing the Executive Office instead and they’ve agreed to cover the >£200 in seat selection fees now rather than after the flight.

I assume many here will have status with BA so may get free seat selection, but for those who don’t and did have with Virgin it might be worthing trying if it matters to you.

[NorthernLass]

Can I ask what rebooking options are you all getting online? Are there fixed options or is there any flexibility, i.e. with dates or routes? I’ll be in a similar position next week when my NAS flight is officially cancelled. TIA!

[Bob]

nothing online, have to call them.

and unlike BA , they dont formally issue any guidance even for trade so nothing you can refer to. Additionally like with Shanghai they may likely have a different policy for revenue and redemption tickets.

[NorthernLass]

But we know they actually can’t, I thought they had backtracked on this now?

[Bob]

not that I’m aware no, they may rebook you onto something they’re not offering (ie BA) if you really fight for it like above but as a standard policy (unless it has changed in the last few days) it is BA for revenue tickets and China Eastern for redemption tickets. They said they are working on other solutions for redemption travellers. However even for revenue tickets it’s all on case by case basis so not a standard policy.

Contrast to BA who when they cancelled HKG flight around the same time, they published a formal policy as is standard with them which stated rebooking for all tickets (regardless of type) allowed onto BA/QR/LH/LX on either the day of travel or +/-1 day either side.

[NorthernLass]

People on redemption tickets have exactly the same re-routing rights as those on cash bookings, I thought everyone on here knew that by now?! It’s very disappointing that they’re still trying to wriggle out of their legal obligations to customers.

[1958]

I am on a reward ticket – and the only option that I have been offered is “China Eastern or a refund”.
My partner is not keen to fly MU (and of course, we would have no 261 rights on a one-way ticket from PVG on MU) – but Virgin will not budge, even after an email to the CEO.

[NorthernLass]

There’s a huge amount of discussion in the “delays and cancellations” thread on this topic. I feel that you’d have a very good case for claiming re-routing on the same airline as a cash ticket holder, but you might have to put up a fight via CEDR to get it. How far out is the flight?

I’m really shocked that VS is pulling this stunt, after clearly having been warned about not complying with their legal obligations after the initial cancellation letter went out.

[Bob]

NorthernLass wrote:

People on redemption tickets have exactly the same re-routing rights as those on cash bookings, I thought everyone on here knew that by now?! It’s very disappointing that they’re still trying to wriggle out of their legal obligations to customers.

of course, fully agree with you and you are right. Unfortunately though they aren’t willingly doing so though…Even with the MU option it’s subject to specific fare classes so not just cabin availability.

[Tim416283]

Try with the live chat also, I had a good result through the live chat when the agents on the phone were less than useful!

Also the availability on the MU flights seems very poor at certain times, for example we are flying out on the 18th of December and the closest flight they could rebook us onto was on the 9th of December. Final advice was to book our own flights and claim the costs back which is currently going through at the moment, I made the agent confirm all of this in writing on an email before doing anything. It definitely hasn’t been the easiest process but keep trying with them

[JDB]

1958 wrote:

I am on a reward ticket – and the only option that I have been offered is “China Eastern or a refund”.
My partner is not keen to fly MU (and of course, we would have no 261 rights on a one-way ticket from PVG on MU) – but Virgin will not budge, even after an email to the CEO.

@1958 – I’m afraid this is a slightly tricky one. If you have been offered a rerouting on MU which arrives about the same time, if not earlier, I’m not sure there’s much you can do. The only thread of hope is the absence of 261, but I’m doubtful whether that’s enough to say Virgin hasn’t complied with its statutory obligations, so I’m not sure a court or AviationADR would change anything. Also, I’m think it’s quite possible BA isn’t co-operating or making space available to Virgin. Finally, the Interpretative Guidelines do state:- “if several flights are available with comparable timings, passengers having the right to re-routing should accept the offer of re-routing made by the carrier, including on those air carriers cooperating with the operating carrier.”

The trouble also is that MU is a very respectable airline, it’s difficult to say anything objectively bad about them, so there’s a risk that saying you don’t want to fly with them could come across a xenophobic. I’m not saying that applies to you, just that it’s a conclusion an adjudicator or judge might draw.

@NorthernLass – I’m afraid I can’t share your analysis that Virgin is obliged to offer the same rerouting flights to cash ticket holders vs reward ticket holders. Each has the identical rights with which Virgin has to comply, but that doesn’t mean offering them the same thing. I am not aware of any legal basis or precedent for that. The APR and associated guidance don’t require an airline to offer an à la carte selection of flights from which the passenger can choose. One can be sufficient to meet the tests.

I think your own situation, which I hope you will soon be able to resolve satisfactorily, is different and better. If Virgin were only to offer you rerouting via the US (and that’s not what you want), I would just tell them that you don’t have the requisite travel documents to transit the US so it’s unacceptable, that the Interpretative Guidelines at 4.2 state:- “reasonable efforts are to be made to avoid additional connections” and the provisions of CAP2155 at para 6.3 confirm :-

“We are aware that some airlines have agreements in place with other airlines that facilitate re-routing and allow passengers to be easily transferred onto other airlines. Such arrangements are welcome in that they can minimise both the cost to airlines of re-routing passengers and the inconvenience experienced by passengers in being re-routed. However, where airlines do not have such arrangements in place, we do not accept that this should be a barrier to re- routing passengers on other airlines.”

[NorthernLass]

Thanks @JDB, I am keeping an open mind until I can hopefully speak to someone later this week. We’ve looked at the various permutations and may actually accept a re-route via the US if VS will put us on one of their MAN services so we can avoid LHR. Still not quite sure which would be the lesser evil!

I wasn’t exactly saying that VS have the same obligation to all passengers, but that I think that it would be hard to justify refusing a points booking the same re-routing option as a cash one (where I suspect the cost to VS is at the root of the decision). Especially just after the pandemic there were instances of people challenging re-routing offers where they were not convenient or workable. The lack of EU/UK 261 protection would definitely be an issue for me, regardless of how well-regarded the alternative airline was.

[1958]

Thanks @JDB. Points noted. I hope that once the Virgin / AF / KLM systems issue is fixed, then we may be able to transfer to AF or KLM.
We have a complex booking – Leg 1 is to SFO, Leg 2 is PVG to London. Hence, if we go down the “refund” route, we wouldn’t get much cash back (as the SFO flight becomes a “One Way”, which has a high redemption cost.

[1958]

At 3.40pm pn 6 August, I received the following email from Virgin Atlantic. Note the phrase, “We have arranged agreements with several other airlines”….

Rebook or Reroute (direct bookings with Virgin Atlantic)
We have arranged agreements with several other airlines to help accommodate your travel needs. If you would like to be rebooked onto an alternative flight on another carrier. please click here for ways to contact us, and our team will assist you.

Alternatively, if you would like to reroute to an alternative Virgin Atlantic destination, please click here. No change fees will apply, however, any difference in fare will be charged.

[Bob]

https://help.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/contact-forms/shanghai-flight.html?cid=PDM375559&bid=799388757&webform=customer-centre

[Bob]

spoke to Virgin, the “new” alternatives are BA, China Eastern and Air China…