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@Tim416283 sorry to hear you’ve been left with only a refund option.
Out of interest – grateful for experience of others – is this common practice among airlines when it comes to points/reward bookings? i.e to offer only a refund in the event of route cancellation.
If so, it alters my perception of the value of points. For example, having to factor in the cost of buying refundable ground products or run the risk of losing value.
I naively thought rebooking of reward bookings during these events was one of the benefits of using airlines within alliances.
@Tim416283 – Virgin is correct about no compensation being due, but it is your Article 8 rerouting rights that you are asking for and those apply irrespective of the notice given and irrespective of whether you booked with any combination of cash, points or vouchers. You need to reply telling them that is what you are asking for and test you aren’t asking for any favours but merely exercise of your statutory rights.
Virgin is acting unlawfully on a mass scale, trying to force or scare people into refunds. Please tell them in no uncertain terms for the benefit of all. Copy the CAA Director of Enforcement and CEO.
@Tim416283 sorry to hear you’ve been left with only a refund option.
Out of interest – grateful for experience of others – is this common practice among airlines when it comes to points/reward bookings? i.e to offer only a refund in the event of route cancellation.
If so, it alters my perception of the value of points. For example, having to factor in the cost of buying refundable ground products or run the risk of losing value.
I naively thought rebooking of reward bookings during these events was one of the benefits of using airlines within alliances.
no this is not common practice, to give an example BA have also just cancelled one of their daily HKG flights from Oct onwards, they allow rebooking onto the other BA flight or even on Qatar Airways , Lufthansa or Swiss
@JDB’s got it right. This is totally illegal bullying on a mass scale. Virgin is denying the statutory right which all passengers of any nationality on Virgin’s cancelled Shanghai flights have, to choose not refund but to choose that at Virgin’s cost Virgin must rebook them on another airline at no cost to passenger, as Virgin has cancelled flights that were operating this route.
Does anyone have connections to a major Chinese travel forum or blog? If so, please inform your Chinese contacts of these illegal actions by Virgin and make sure passengers departing from China on any flight with Virgin know they have the right to refuse the refund and have the righy to demand to be rebooked on another airline at no extra cost. They do mot have to take the refund option Virgin is trying to bully, lie and force passengers to take.
@JDB’s got it right. This is totally illegal bullying on a mass scale. Virgin is denying the statutory right which all passengers of any nationality on Virgin’s cancelled Shanghai flights have, to choose not refund but to choose that at Virgin’s cost Virgin must rebook them on another airline at no cost to passenger, as Virgin has cancelled flights that were operating this route.
Does anyone have connections to a major Chinese travel forum or blog? If so, please inform your Chinese contacts of these illegal actions by Virgin and make sure passengers departing from China on any flight with Virgin know they have the right to refuse the refund and have the righy to demand to be rebooked on another airline at no extra cost. They do mot have to take the refund option Virgin is trying to bully, lie and force passengers to take.
Thank you, @Lady London, for your suggestion. I have indeed posted on Chinese social media, encouraging customers not to accept the refund options. This has drawn considerable attention, and some Chinese customers have successfully rebooked. However, the main challenge, as you pointed out, is that customers who booked using points have faced difficulties rebooking and received inconsistent responses. I also suggested that they review this forum to better understand others’ comments and experiences.
This is the response I received from the executive office:
“Hello Timothy,
Thank you for your email.
I hope you are well.
I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you in regard to your cancelled flight.
EC261 Compensation does not apply to this booking / cancellation as on this occasion the flight has been cancelled outside 14 days of departure.
As you have booked this ticket as a reward flight, we are unable to rebook you on another reward flight with another airline.
You have the option to apply for a refund.”
shocking
Thank you for sharing with Chinese passengers @Mcrpanda, as they have the same rights.
Yes it’s just another lying and bullying attempt if Virgin tries to say any ticket purchased with points, sale ticket, etc., does not have these full rights. The rights are the same as tickets purchased with cash, or by employers, or if discount voucher was used, etc.
The reference to 14 days is a misdirect here; it relates only to compensation, not re-routing, which is an absolute right.
Maybe another report to the CAA is in order, as happened in the pandemic!
I phoned Virgin on Saturday and was told some tosh about how reward flights rerouted onto BA would be cancelled because there was no agreement with BA concerning reward flights. I took @JDB’s advice and emailed the executive office and cc’d the CAA politely referencing their clear breach of the Regs and their previous dubious email. I received a very polite email this am saying they are working on it and will get back to me. I suspect some agents haven’t got the memo regarding differentiating between revenue and points. Fat chance the points BA bookings will be cancelled but I suspect they will chuck the rest of us points paupers on China Eastern as it’s Skyteam.
Just got off the phone with an agent in VA office who initially told me that as my ticket is a points booking they are not offering re-routing. I pointed out that irrespective of the booking being points or cash, Virgin have entered into a contract with me and are bound by EC261 Regulations, Article 8 which provides me with statutory rights. I asked to speak with her team leader (who, surprise, surprise, was unavailable) but she then returned to tell me that she had just been told that arrangements are now underway to re-route passengers, but they have not been finalised yet. I was told that I am on a list to receive a phone call from Virgin in a few days time regarding re-routing. Of course, I am not holding my breath on receiving that call but will give them until Thursday and then call again.
This is the response I received from the executive office:
“Hello Timothy,
Thank you for your email.
I hope you are well.
I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you in regard to your cancelled flight.
EC261 Compensation does not apply to this booking / cancellation as on this occasion the flight has been cancelled outside 14 days of departure.
As you have booked this ticket as a reward flight, we are unable to rebook you on another reward flight with another airline.
You have the option to apply for a refund.”
shocking
Also shocked! Is this becuase the executive office thought OP was asking for compensation?
I have booked a trip, flying VA from Shanghai to London, and BA from London to Hong Kong, I got emails from both BA and VA saying they were cancelled last week (I know! how disappointing!). When I called last Friday, BA offered Qatar, Swiss or LH for re-routing, and VA offered BA or Scandinavian. Both agents handle the re-booking quite nicely.
It’s a shame that some of the comments here show a clear inconsistency in VA’s customer service quality. I’d suggest call again in the mid/late afternoon when the Indian/SE Aisa call centre (i assume is outsoucres) is closed, but the UK local team is still open, to get a higher chance of good agents.
My call was to a UK office as the agent spoke with a Welsh accent and she gave the team leader’s name as Rhys.
As points bookings are cancellable, if Virgin forces people with points bookings to book their own cash tickets and then claim the money back from Virgin, presumably it would not be considered disproportionate at mcol for the replacement cash ticket to be a fully flexible ticket?
Personally I think there is a good legal argument to support your assertion that points booking = fully flexible but frankly were I rebooking myself onto BA I wouldn’t view the price differential as an acceptable risk. Other airlines such as Qatar have more favourable cancellation penalties for tickets which cost a few hundred more than standard so if you can put up with the stop for me that option would be preferable.
Quote @ZW “I’d suggest call again in the mid/late afternoon when the Indian/SE Aisa call centre (i assume is outsoucres) is closed, but the UK local team is still open, to get a higher chance of good agents.”
Fabulous tip @ZW. I only wish I’d adopted your suggestion 11 years ago when a series of absolutely non-service calls taking hours with BA’s incompetent unhelpful timewasting Indian call centre(s) finally finished me off.
Partner successfully rebooked one way reward flight from PVG to LHR in Feb on phone line this morning, which has been changed to China Eastern flight. BA option not offered interestingly but CE flight time is shorter so shes happy. Should give a bit of confidence for flights originating from China instead of UK without UK261 protection.
The flights departing Shanghai that are cancelled do have the UK version of EC61/2004 (EU261) which was brought into UK law on Brexit but the text is as good as the same.
The reason Virgin’s cancelled flights do indeed have EU/UK261 protection, is that Virgin Atlantic is based in UK or Europe (actually UK) and this makes any flight Virgin operates from anywhere in the world to or from UK or Europe, subject to UK/EU261.
Partner successfully rebooked one way reward flight from PVG to LHR in Feb on phone line this morning, which has been changed to China Eastern flight. BA option not offered interestingly but CE flight time is shorter so shes happy. Should give a bit of confidence for flights originating from China instead of UK without UK261 protection.
I am sharing update this with Chinese passengers and one of Chinese passengers successfully rebooked their flight with China Eastern after making a phone call. Although he is still waiting for email confirmation, this indicates that China Eastern is now a viable option for rebooking?
@00M – Thank you for sharing!Update, I have just been offered economy instead of PE as per initial booking. This would be on China Eastern. I have declined as they wouldn’t reimburse taxes or points. Also, I would need to buy extra allowance for bags. I have wrote again to Louise Phillips citing article 8… Will see if I get another response…
The flights departing Shanghai that are cancelled do have the UK version of EC61/2004 (EU261) which was brought into UK law on Brexit but the text is as good as the same.
The reason Virgin’s cancelled flights do indeed have EU/UK261 protection, is that Virgin Atlantic is based in UK or Europe (actually UK) and this makes any flight Virgin operates from anywhere in the world to or from UK or Europe, subject to UK/EU261.
Thanks for the tip, thats good to know.
Partner successfully rebooked one way reward flight from PVG to LHR in Feb on phone line this morning, which has been changed to China Eastern flight. BA option not offered interestingly but CE flight time is shorter so shes happy. Should give a bit of confidence for flights originating from China instead of UK without UK261 protection.
I am sharing update this with Chinese passengers and one of Chinese passengers successfully rebooked their flight with China Eastern after making a phone call. Although he is still waiting for email confirmation, this indicates that China Eastern is now a viable option for rebooking?
@00M – Thank you for sharing!Excellent, seems that some sort of SkyTeam rebooking policy has been sorted out, I doubt they’ll communicate this to the affected customers though, seems a bit shady…
If Virgin only offer China Eastern, are you basically stuck with it as that would tick off Virgins responsibility to offer a re-route, or does the legal rights allow for you to reject a carrier?
Given that EU airlines arent allowed to fly over russia, it feels a little unsafe for europeans to fly over russia – and rebooked china eastern flights would also lack eu261 protection?
Update, I have just been offered economy instead of PE as per initial booking. This would be on China Eastern. I have declined as they wouldn’t reimburse taxes or points. Also, I would need to buy extra allowance for bags. I have wrote again to Louise Phillips citing article 8… Will see if I get another response…
I believe the china eastern 777-300ERs dont have premium economy seating so might be out of luck trying for that.
Pretty sure the legislation stipulates in comparable transport conditions or words to that effect and I’d argue that cabin class should be the same for it to be comparable, whether China eastern offers PE or not is not your problem as another airline flying the route does, BA I presume? Are there any other airlines flying the same route operate PE? VS will just have to suck it up and put you on BA if that’s the only comparable alternative and you shouldn’t back down I don’t think. Just my two cents worth, I’m sure someone with more legal knowledge will be able advise better where you stand
@slidey – I think that it’s likely rerouting on MU would constitute a reasonable offer of rerouting but not for PE passengers. I’m not sure whether the absence of EC261 with MU would make the conditions no longer ‘comparable’ but it might be arguable.
Virgin is clearly trying to brazen it out and this comes from the top. It’s very shabby but they aren’t bending yet. I know the top people at the CAA are personally aware of the situation but I don’t know what, if anything, they are actually doing about it but they do move at a glacial pace generally.
If enough impacted people write to the various people at Virgin and the CAA eventually they might be persuaded to comply with the law.
Virgin’s General Counsel is on holiday!
@FlorianLondon – the problem with VS’s proposal to downgrade PE pax to economy is that they presumably won’t pay the full EC261 75% reimbursement. BA would have to do it if they downgraded you onto another BA flight but with Virgin doing this onto China Eastern (with no EC261 protection), they are trying to evade paying the full amount even if they may offer sum small sum. Usually, downgrade reimbursement is paid after the flight (ie once you have suffered the inconvenience/discomfort) but here that wouldn’t be appropriate.
They need to offer PE on BA or another airline on an indirect routing.
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