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just spoke to Virgin, they advised China Eastern only for Economy and Business but that they’re still working on options for those in Premium since MU don’t offer it. You can also only rebook to the closest available flight to what you are currently booked in so not possible to rebook to future date…
Hi all, just wondered if anyone has been down the MCOL route previously and what the results were? I have it in writing that the only option they will give me is a refund and they won’t re-route me as requested.
Don’t want to pay for new flights if I’m not going to be able to recoup the cost however!
Thanks in advance
Hi all, just wondered if anyone has been down the MCOL route previously and what the results were? I have it in writing that the only option they will give me is a refund and they won’t re-route me as requested.
Don’t want to pay for new flights if I’m not going to be able to recoup the cost however!
Thanks in advance
@Tim416283 – the MCOL process is fairly simple and you would almost certainly win the cost of replacement tickets plus your costs, however it is currently very slow. It’s possible that Virgin might concede once they receive the claim to which they would have to respond within 14 days(or 28 days if they file an acknowledgment of service). They would be mad to attempt a defence but they are being seriously pig headed about this. If you did choose to go down this route, you would need to put a monetary value on your claim with evidence of the cost of replacement tickets, but it shouldn’t be necessary actually to buy them but that raises issues of cost/availability at a later date.There is also the option of AviationADR but Virgin might hope they can muddle their way through that; it doesn’t focus the mind like MCOL.
I think there is sufficient pressure building on Virgin that they may be forced to concede proper rerouting for everyone, so in the first instance I would right to the CEO and Director of Enforcement at the CAA copying the Virgin CEO and General Counsel. I would not at this stage NOT make it a ‘Letter before Claim’ because I think the CAA might decline to get involved if they thought legal action were pending.
In that letter I would say you are writing directly to the CEO because while you are personally affected, there is a wider body of affected passengers whose statutory rights are being refused by Virgin following the suspension of its Shanghai route. Briefly set out the timeline and steps you have taken to ask for your rights and say you are attaching all the correspondence from Virgin that confirms and offers prima facie evidence that Virgin is in breach of:
EC261 Article 14 Obligation to Inform Passengers of their Rights
EC261 Articles 5 and 8 Cancellation and Right to reimbursement or re-routing
EC261 Interpretative Guidelines – Paragraphs 4.1.1 and 4.2
Civil Aviation Authority CAP2155 – notably, but not exclusively Chapter 6
ECJ decision in Rusu v S C Blue – re onus on the airline to offer rerouting
CAA / CMA joint letter to airlines dated 21 July 2022I don’t know if your ticket is cash or voucher/points but if the latter, say that there should be no distinction made. If your booking is PE explain the problem of that if offered.
End your letter asking the CAA to intervene as a matter of urgency given the large number of passengers affected and the ‘live’ nature of the situation with passengers needing to plan their trips, some of which are just three months away.
If there is no response, I would then follow that up a few days later with a ‘Letter before Claim’ to Virgin highlighting all the above and that if they continue to refuse to reroute you or cover the full cost of rerouting yourself (£xxxx) within fourteen days, you will issue a claim in the County Court for that sum, plus court fees of (£xxx depending on the amount of your claim – Google EX50 to fund these) and interest at the County Court rate. There can be no defence to Virgin’s failure to offer you the statutory remedy so you trust they will not create unnecessary work for the court, Virgin or the passenger. You reserve the right to show this letter to the court on any question of costs.
JDB gives excellent advice. Before you go ahead with the headache of all that I would suggest giving them a call today. Seems like there are a few accounts now of people with award tickets getting offered MU. That is a fair replacement and it is not worth going down the CAA/Legal route unless they deny you again (now that it seems they have a policy in place).
As a data point. I just called now and spoke to a nice agent with an English accent. I was offered 4 options:
1) Refund
2) Re-route on another date with Virgin (ie bring my flight half a year forwards)
3) A new ticket anytime anywhere on the Virgin network
4) Re-ticketing on the same date with China EasternI took the last option and it has been sent off to ticketing.
@Pogonation – amazing, they have finally almost got there. Let’s hope all agents are briefed to offer the same. It still leaves the issue of passengers booked in PE to resolve as MU doesn’t offer that class.
Only offering to reticket to MU on the same date is still failing to follow all of their eu261 requirements?
My main concern with MU rerouting is the lack of eu261 protection should there be and issues. Presumably VS would not be responsible for anything MU subsequently did?
@slidey – I don’t know the answer, but instinctively VS is doing enough by offering you the rerouting on MU as it’s on the same day at a similar departure and arrival time. There is no obligation to provide an à la carte menu of rerouting options. I’m just not sure the absence of EC261 on MU is enough to claim any failure to comply with the rules. VS is probably acting as your agent in this transaction, so isn’t entirely absolved of all responsibility but it would be quite complex to bring any sort of case against VS for the actions of MU.
What’s interesting is that MU fares are generally more expensive than BA. I was booked into the Q fare code which is a revenue fare filed at $1939. The cheapest I fare on BA is $1917. I assume VS is not paying the shelf price and must have negotiated some decent discount.
Interestingly on the phone she said the 4th option to switch to MU is very availability dependent and depends on what fares are available and she would need to check to make sure she can change mine.. This makes me think they are only offering Q Class (or maybe a few fare codes) and will deny if it is gone (against legislation of course).
Overall I am happy with the alternative. VS 787 seat is terrible, BA CW seat is terrible (I know some love it but I don’t know why haha) and the MU seat is very good. The food and service I don’t really care so much about to be honest. Not happy about going through Russian airspace but a 3 hour time saving can’t be sniffed at.
11,000 miles in my delta account also gives me a NCL to anywhere in Europe one-way on KL/AF which is a nice bonus.
Also I agree by offering MU they are not failing to meet their obligations under EC261. They have offered a suitable replacement under “comparable transport conditions” by offering a direct flight in the same cabin on the same day with similar times.
I accepted a re-route onto China Eastern (business) for the reasons given by @Pogonation. In my view they have now complied with their obligations and to be fair it was sorted out within two working days of contacting their executive office) Both callers from Virgin (office and customer service) were very charming. Frankly though they have missed a trick generating goodwill by failing to be transparent from the start. Secondly, I’ve been put on China Eastern because it’s likely cheaper for VA than putting me on BA but there we are. I remind myself that it is still a privilege avoiding economy.
I just learned from Chinese passengers that VA is offering a new option for those who booked Premium Economy seats using points. Passengers can now receive a 75% refund of their points if they agree to rebook in Economy class with China Eastern Airlines.
I just learned from Chinese passengers that VA is offering a new option for those who booked Premium Economy seats using points. Passengers can now receive a 75% refund of their points if they agree to rebook in Economy class with China Eastern Airlines.
That’s great news for PE pax, thank you for the report. I sort of suspect Virgin didn’t offer this option of its own volition. Greater external pressure has obliged them to offer significantly better options for all passengers more promptly than after the GRU and HKG route suspensions. The last category of pax they now need to assist are those pushed into a refund after the initial email.
Thank you @JDB for the comprehensive overview of the MCOL route, I spoke to virgin again yesterday about re-routing, however none of the flights offered were available once it went through to their ticketing team! This happened 3-4 times with different flights being offered by the agent but unable to be booked “as reward flights have different availability for rebooking than cash tickets”. The only advice was to call again in a day or two to see if availability has changed…
Seems like a fairly major failure of Virgin complying with their legal responsibility!
Just to add to this, I have called again and the agent on the phone advised they could only give a refund. When I pushed the issue, she said they could only book onto China Eastern flights, and there was no availablity for any of December or January. Surely their legal responsibility still should cover me, despite their insistence that reward flights can only be rebooked into one particular ticket class?
just spoke to Virgin, they advised China Eastern only for Economy and Business but that they’re still working on options for those in Premium since MU don’t offer it. You can also only rebook to the closest available flight to what you are currently booked in so not possible to rebook to future date…
Nope. Also still illegal. You have the right to choose to be rerouted on a different date of your choice if Virgin cancelled your flight – as well as choosing if you wish to be rerouted on a flight around the same time. Legally that’s your choice regardless of what the cancelling airline says or has in their ts and cs.
So for many of us, next chance to find a new date when other arrangements work for you to rebook on a later date, say, if that is the choice you:want, could be a date in Christmas or school holidays. It’s your choice not theirs.
I’d be giving my options – which are my.options to choose and not Virgin’s – a lot of thought as I would not want to fly China Eastern.
PS only your cabin class has to be available (eg if being sold to the public online when you do a dummy booking) so Economy, Business, First, Economy Plus/Premium Economy on an alternative (rerouting) flight. Cancelling airline is not allowed to insist award seats must be available. That’s the law. If you could see it online to book regardless of advertised cost it’s available for cancelling airline to reroute you into according to your chosen rerouting date (though cancelling airline can choose to provide from amongst similarly timed flights).
@Tim416283 – sorry to see that Virgin will not provide you the options to reroute in line with legislation. Just persevere with them and you will get a rerouting. @JDB and @LadyLondon provide good advice on situation like this. You have a bit of time on your side here.
I have had experience on this route twice when flights booked were cancelled – albeit with BA – where there was a lot of push back by BA agents about policy and commercial agreements etc, but in the first case I was rerouted via HK with CX. In the second case rerouted via DOH with QR. Both were good for me, but a bit longer than the direct flight.
I wouldn’t discount MU – I have flown them before and they have modern planes 777-300 to London, the service and food is fine but not fantastic but they are safe. Flying over Russia, has a small risk in the event of an emergency, but I don’t think the Chinese government would let the Russians interfere with one of their flights.
But they have not. VS cannot limit the options for rerouting simply to save money. The passenger alone has the right to chose and that includes a rerouting at a future date convenient to the passenger.
The CAA are simply another pathetic toothless regulator
Yes Virgin saying “we can rebook you [only] on China Eastern but they have no availabiliy in December and January” and “not all flights” when this far ahead so many are being said not available…
Haha loks like they mean they want to book China Eastern but not all bookng classes…. or only interline costs (which are not the same as public costs and generally much, much less) up to a specified limit.
This limitation is illegal.
Exercise your full rights folks. Choose a date you want to be rebooked on, as per your entitlement, you can’t specifically choose the airline but if Virgin tells you their favourite airline does not have availability then excellent. Keep your date and ask Virgin to provide your reroute on another airline then. You could mention, say, 1, 2, or 3 alternatives on same date of other airlines thst are running flights if Virgin commemt that China Eastern’s not.
Virgin made a commercial decision to cancel flights. Which no doubt they financially evaluated taking all their obligations into account. Give them some caring sharing communication back since they have decided to communicate and proceed in this way.
I have a LHR-PVG-LHR return all in Premium. What direct flight options in Virgin Atlantic offering?
I have a LHR-PVG-LHR return all in Premium. What direct flight options in Virgin Atlantic offering?
Seems to depend whether you paid cash or miles redemption? Unlawful of course to discriminate but that’s how Virgin are playing it
They are still not offering BA for PE passengers (important to us as we are going to have a little passenger on our lap). They just called saying that I can get 75% back on points and taxes. I am trying to get them to send me an explicit refusal of rerouting on PE via email. I’m pretty sure that they are not going to send me this..
They are still not offering BA for PE passengers (important to us as we are going to have a little passenger on our lap). They just called saying that I can get 75% back on points and taxes. I am trying to get them to send me an explicit refusal of rerouting on PE via email. I’m pretty sure that they are not going to send me this..
Pretty disgraceful imho, in the absence of any written communication, make sure you are logging all phone calls/correspondence and ideally record all conversations with any virgin agents as evidence of their refusal to re-route. They often do say calls are recorded, can you ask for a copy of the recording?
Can only recommend escalating the matter by going down the route JDB has suggested earlier in the thread as above.Thanks for the advice. I will try.
If it helps anyone, we finally got a good result on the webchat route, documenting all of our communication with them and highlighted the stress caused and how it’s impacting us. The agent on the other end then said she would rebook us onto the BA flights – we initially had these but were then cancelled due to it being a points booking, even though there should be no distinction between a points and cash booking.
We then had a senior sounding manager call us to advise their system won’t allow us to be booked onto the BA flights and they don’t have availability on the MU flights on our dates (the closest they had was 2 weeks before our original departure date). However he did give the option for us to book our own flights and claim back the cost through Virgin.
I had this all confirmed in writing, and the money should be in our bank in 14 days.
The only stipulation is that we have to book flights as close as possible to our original flights – so the BA ones, and that it has to be in the same class which is Economy for us.
Stick with it, try different routes of communication and you’ll get there in the end!
They are still not offering BA for PE passengers (important to us as we are going to have a little passenger on our lap). They just called saying that I can get 75% back on points and taxes. I am trying to get them to send me an explicit refusal of rerouting on PE via email. I’m pretty sure that they are not going to send me this..
The webchat agent offered me the same solution along with three other options: a full refund, flying before the suspension, or rebooking onto another available Virgin flight to any destination on their map.
Since BA doesn’t operate on my travel day for some reason, I accepted the offer to downgrade to Economy from PE with compensation. This decision was based on the shorter flight time and the low actual cost. My points were immediately returned, and the tax refund will take up to 14 days (interestingly, I received all my points back, not just 75%). I get tired of time-consuming battles with them on the phone, but I do hope you guys with PE bookings could get better offers later.
BTW, does anyone who booked with China Eastern via Virgin know how to manage the booking and select seats on China Eastern’s website?
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