Some good news from Curve?

[dshunter]

I’ve received an email from Curve.

Gone (immediately) is the 1% weekend fee.

Max spend has increased significantly for X and Black.

But most interestingly is 1% cashback for ex-Europe transactions.

Definitely enough to sway me from cancelling for the time being.

[masaccio]

Does this mean their Fx rate competes with Revolut and Currensea now?

[Blair Waldorf Salad]

The new Curve fees schedule says Mastercard rate plus 1%.

[AndrewT]

You may have been misled by the sightly dodgy page formatting in their document. The 1% fee only applies if you exceed the much increased monthly limits (and I can’t believe there will be many who will find £100K a month limiting!)

When the additional 1% cashback comes in for non-EU transactions it will be extremely competitive.

[strickers]

@AndrewT The ability to work towards a Barclays Avios voucher and earn 1% cashback outside the UK/EU is quite compelling. Wonder how long it will last?

[masaccio]

And IIRC Mastercard rate is 1% from market rate, so Fx swallows most of any benefit it seems

[JDB]

masaccio wrote:

And IIRC Mastercard rate is 1% from market rate, so Fx swallows most of any benefit it seems

Mastercard isn’t anything like 1% from the interbank rate and nor is Visa. You mention Revolut and Currensea above, suggesting they are superior. Currensea offers interbank rate on 16 currency pairs and Mastercard rates on the remaining 164 currency pairs it offers and you need to pay an annual fee to get the ‘free’ FX. Revolut similarly requires an annual fee and charges 1% at weekends even on the highest paid plans. It’s swings and roundabouts, so not sure the implications of your two posts are valid. Curve is fairly competitive even without enabling one to earn points on an underlying card in a way that Revpoints can’t get close to. 1 or 1½ Avios per £ and the new Curve FX plan plus Fronted (even at the reduced £3k/month) puts Curve streets ahead. Revolut Ultra works for those who want an FT subscription.

In reality, this finessing of exchange rates down to the last basis point seems rather pointless when people are paying through the nose for hotels with artificial lures like an F&B credit or ‘free’ breakfast that’s actually exorbitant. Also, it’s not really possible to finesse since rates are dynamic and Visa, Mastercard and Amex will have constantly changing rates and are impacted by where you are and the time of day, so it’s all trying to be too clever by half.

[masaccio]

Checking Thursday’s rate for USD-GBP, Mastercard is similar to Revolut’s typical spread. Certainly much better than the 1% I’ve seen reported in this forum and elsewhere.

Personally I couldn’t care less about Revpoints. I currently use Revolut because I make a number of interbank forex transfers and I do care about small fluctuations for that. But I accept that this use of Revolut is a bit niche. Even with a fee though, for that it is as cheap as I’ve found and a little better than Wise or TorFX.

[Peter K]

Everything is worse on the free plan however. The weekend fee goes up to 1.5% and the fx fee after the (low) limit goes up to 2.99%.

I guess they don’t want anyone on the free plan and are trying to force our hands to upgrade.

[JDB]

@masaccio – I was trying to be fair/generous to Revolut in noting that you might get points.

However, the underlying issue is that agonising over whether Currensea, Revolut, Curve or any other card offers the very finest rate is a total waste of time. At the point of use, you have no idea what rate will be applied to your transaction. A ‘live’ rate on one of the 16 Currensea pairs may or may not end up looking good vs Mastercard/Visa – nobody knows. You can also be impacted by trading blips that can work for or against you.

I notice that the ‘live’ Currensea rate GBP/USD (1.2759) is identical now vs my response to you at 23.24 yesterday, so perhaps they have a weekend special as well, since there is still a live market, albeit a thinner one than usual. One can also observe discrepancies on big currency pairs between say Reuters and Bloomberg.

Your original thesis posted yesterday that somehow Curve might now be catching up with Currensea and Revolut was fundamentally wrong. They are each different products with their individual merits/demerits with different subscription and/or transaction fees and terms, apply different currency rates at different times and treat some currencies differently to others. They each get you round the mainstream card high FX fees, but isn’t possible to make a generalised comparison of one vs the other in terms of rates or which is ‘better’.

My other point was that you are talking about such fine differences in rates to create a saving of maybe £50 – £100 on £10,000 of foreign spend. I would be disappointed not to be able to shave that and more off a hotel booking every night.

[AndrewT]

Peter K wrote:

Everything is worse on the free plan however. The weekend fee goes up to 1.5% and the fx fee after the (low) limit goes up to 2.99%.

I guess they don’t want anyone on the free plan and are trying to force our hands to upgrade.

Yes the free card is pretty useless now for FX spend. Max £250 per month (weekdays only) is not going to earn you any worthwhile reward points from an underlying card before the fees kick in and exceed the benefits. Also has fees on all ATM withdrawals, UK & overseas.

[JDB]

@AndrewT – all the fintechs mentioned in this thread are reducing benefits offered on free plans to push you onto paid plans. They can’t really indefinitely offer these loss leaders in any meaningful quantum. It’s pretty unrealistic to expect them to do so.

The likes of Halifax and Nationwide can offer free FX on free credit cards because they can easily absorb that cost within the wider business and still make good money. Also, neither offers any gimmicks or rewards. These cards are an option if you don’t want to pay for fintech products.

[BBbetter]

Peter K wrote:

Everything is worse on the free plan however. The weekend fee goes up to 1.5% and the fx fee after the (low) limit goes up to 2.99%.

I guess they don’t want anyone on the free plan and are trying to force our hands to upgrade.

You mean they want to be profitable? Shocking!

[AndrewT]

@JDB Yes I agree, I wasn’t knocking Curve in general. I’ve been happily getting good value for money from the Black card before these positive changes. I support the view that the free version is now of very limited use, but as you say they can’t offer something for nothing for ever.

[BBbetter]

JDB wrote:

In reality, this finessing of exchange rates down to the last basis point seems rather pointless when people are paying through the nose for hotels with artificial lures like an F&B credit or ‘free’ breakfast that’s actually exorbitant. Also, it’s not really possible to finesse since rates are dynamic and Visa, Mastercard and Amex will have constantly changing rates and are impacted by where you are and the time of day, so it’s all trying to be too clever by half.

Penny wise and pound foolish. Some people worry about saving 50p and then buy a large coffee when a small one should be enough.

This kind of analysis would be ok if you are putting through 100k a month, but by that time, your cards would be blocked for using them commercially.

If you are happy to pay for it, get either curve or revolut paid versions. If not, there are so many free debit cards.

[Rob]

BBbetter wrote:

JDB wrote:

In reality, this finessing of exchange rates down to the last basis point seems rather pointless when people are paying through the nose for hotels with artificial lures like an F&B credit or ‘free’ breakfast that’s actually exorbitant. Also, it’s not really possible to finesse since rates are dynamic and Visa, Mastercard and Amex will have constantly changing rates and are impacted by where you are and the time of day, so it’s all trying to be too clever by half.

Penny wise and pound foolish. Some people worry about saving 50p and then buy a large coffee when a small one should be enough.

This kind of analysis would be ok if you are putting through 100k a month, but by that time, your cards would be blocked for using them commercially.

If you are happy to pay for it, get either curve or revolut paid versions. If not, there are so many free debit cards.

This.

I think too many people overestimate how much they actually spend in foreign currency. If your flights are in £, which they will be, and especially if your hotel is on points, you really aren’t spending much.

Certainly anyone on a package holiday paid in £, which admittedly isn’t our market but is the broader one, isn’t spending much.

I wouldn’t knock anyone who put FX on their BAPP Amex – you’re getting 1.5 Avios back and if you need the spend to trigger your 241 then fair enough.

[Blair Waldorf Salad]

“ If your flights are in £, which they will be”

Said as if ex-EU isn’t a thing.

[Peter K]

BBbetter wrote:

Peter K wrote:

Everything is worse on the free plan however. The weekend fee goes up to 1.5% and the fx fee after the (low) limit goes up to 2.99%.

I guess they don’t want anyone on the free plan and are trying to force our hands to upgrade.

You mean they want to be profitable? Shocking!

Not that shocking. They are a business after all. But clearly the way they are pushing.

[tootsci]

Not a current Curve user (and it sounds like the glory days are perhaps in the past) but trying to work out it it’s worth me having a further look into it.

Is there any advantage of Curve Black over the Chase debit card I currently use? Both use the Mastercard rates, no fees for ATM withdrawals, and daily withdrawal limits within what I would use, so basically the same unless I’m missing something?

If the FX aspects are very comparable it would be the other Curve features that would then be the decider.

[strickers]

@tootsci Some of us took advantage of an offer several years ago which gave us a fairly decent card for a one off fee of £50. This turned into legacy black and more recently the full black. I think the only benefit over Chase is if you will be able to use it to reach Barclaycard or Virgin sign up or voucher targets when spending overseas, remembering of course that the Virgin card is fee free in Europe. There is also the option of making payments to HMRC using the limited fronted limit. If I didn’t have the card from the one off fee I’m not sure I would bother.

[tootsci]

Thanks @strickers. Considering which retailers I’d pick, I think the 1% cashback would probably cover the monthly fee so it’s then whether the other features make it worthwhile. No Virgin card for us, but we have just got a Barclaycard via my OH as have spent almost to the BAPP limit (holding off on the final £2 so as not to trigger the 241 until end of Oct) so it could be useful to make the spend on the Barclaycard in the short term perhaps. Though some of the reports I’ve read on here of issues and not so great CS may mean on balance I decide it’s not worth the hassle…

[masaccio]

Rob Burgess wrote:

I think too many people overestimate how much they actually spend in foreign currency.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people don’t know how much they need to budget for stuff. Even though I largely don’t need to anymore, I don’t think I’ll ever shake the habit.

But isn’t a lot of this going of cards about marginal wins? HfP articles often talk about a few hundred points here and there. Sometimes even less than a quid’s worth.

[strickers]

@masaccio Same for me on budgeting, I still use Microsoft Money 2004 because I haven’t found anything better yet!

[JDB]

@mascaccio – the problem is one has absolutely no idea whether one is (or is not) making these “marginal wins” by using a card that advertises live or interbank rates which in reality is something of a marketing gimmick.

The cards that offer this don’t necessarily offer this without a subscription fee and they give themselves the optionality of when that ‘live’ rate is applied which can be at any time between transaction and processing so maybe a 48h or even 72h window. One might luck upon a great rate and one might hit a bad one. Nobody can tell you whether that rate will be better or worse than the MasterCard or Visa rate.

So in addition to complete speculation about rates, for those cards that still offer different weekend rates you need to consider the time in London when you are paying for your dinner in Bali and factor in the subscription cost etc! Seriously?

[ross]

So what is the VALUE of Curve?

At £18 a month, is it solely so that you can FRONT £3k, ie move spend onto your Barclaycard? To gain Avios? 3,000 Avios a month for £18?

If you want an upgrade voucher then it is
3,000 Avios a month for £18
plus
An upgrade voucher for £20 a month (to get the Plus Barclaycard).

Question is, is that worth it?