Tokyo 2-4-1 and upgrade voucher

[APL03]

I am getting set to try and book a trip to Japan for our family of 4 for Dec/ Jan next year and hope I can get some help so I’m prepared.

I have an Amex 2-4-1 voucher and two Barclaycard upgrade vouchers and ideally we would all travel in CW, but if no availability would mix classes and also could travel 2 in CW and 2 in PE.

I have read through all the threads on here and hope this would be possible.

1. Book the outbound flights when released at midnight. I think we will get the 4 x CW seats based on what’s available today.

2. Call to book the returns when released. I think this will be the harder ones to get.

I’ve done this before for the Amex 2-4-1 but have read conflicting things regarding the upgrade voucher on here (due to the origin flight needing to be in the UK and whether the return booking ends up being non eligible as it’s seen as a one way). Also what happens if only PE is available for the return on the upgrade vouchers, can the classes be mixed? Again I’ve read conflicting things on here!

Thanks for your help.

[NorthernLass]

All the info is in the threads, but yes you can mix cabins with the upgrade voucher.
Remember that you’ll need to make at least 2 separate bookings so you might need someone else to make the upgrade bookings while you do the 241, or vice versa, for your best chance of success.

[APL03]

NorthernLass wrote:

All the info is in the threads, but yes you can mix cabins with the upgrade voucher.
Remember that you’ll need to make at least 2 separate bookings so you might need someone else to make the upgrade bookings while you do the 241, or vice versa, for your best chance of success.

Thank you! Do you know if you can be logged in on two devices making two different bookings at the same time? I can imagine BA’s IT system not liking that!

[Olly]

APL03 wrote:

NorthernLass wrote:

All the info is in the threads, but yes you can mix cabins with the upgrade voucher.
Remember that you’ll need to make at least 2 separate bookings so you might need someone else to make the upgrade bookings while you do the 241, or vice versa, for your best chance of success.

Thank you! Do you know if you can be logged in on two devices making two different bookings at the same time? I can imagine BA’s IT system not liking that!

This is actually fine – I’ve done it multiple times in the past when securing flights at midnight

[travelmonkey]

APL03 wrote:

I’ve done this before for the Amex 2-4-1 but have read conflicting things regarding the upgrade voucher on here (due to the origin flight needing to be in the UK and whether the return booking ends up being non eligible as it’s seen as a one way).

This was puzzling me too when I read your post. The 241 is obvious but the upgrade voucher is trickier. This poster managed to do a 355 outbound booking and call back later to add the return when upgrading a solo return alongside a 241: https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/upgrade-voucher-adding-return-leg/

I imagine (but have obviously not tried myself) your path of least resistance is to arrange your bookings in the same way, but with a second solo return. In other words, two of you on the a 241 return and the other as two solo returns with one upgrade voucher each.

Trying to put two people on one booking with both upgrades vouchers sounds like something that could easily go wrong here. I wouldn’t want to bet my holiday on BA’s IT allowing 2 vouchers on the one way outbound when only 1 is required or being able to add a second voucher when booking the return.

Booking as three returns probably also leaves a little flexibility in case there’s only 3 CW and 1 PE available on a flight, which isn’t a combo you’d be able to book if your tickets were booked as two pairs.

These are just my thoughts… Good luck with whatever you decide on!

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

You cannot mix different types of voucher on the same booking.

Everyone on the same booking needs to be doing the same think and someone on a Barclays voucher isn’t doing the same thing as someone using a 2-4-1 even if it’s the same flights and the same cabin.

This isn’t down to BAs IT but the ticketing rules which follow IATA rules.

[danstravel]

No advice but good luck – you are going for one of the Top 5 hardest Avios routes to book CW and particularly for 4.

I am also monitoring for the start of Dec and can see plenty outbound CW but very little availability inbound. I resigned myself to having to potentially book CW out and PE back.

[NorthernLass]

Have you done a dummy booking to see if you can make one booking with 2 upgrade vouchers online? It does seem to be possible but I think there have been a few glitches with it which you don’t want slowing you down when the seats are released.

[APL03]

Unfortunately I didn’t manage to get the booking last night – got through and the agent said she would only do the two separate bookings one at a time, and by one minute past all CW seats had gone anyway! Was trying to do it online at the same time and thought I had the upgrade vouchers seats in the basket but when paying it didn’t go through.

[NorthernLass]

Can you travel out on the 9th or 10th of December? SeatSpy is showing 4 x CW on both dates. With a route like TYO you need to be prepared to be flexible.

[travelmonkey]

Don’t know where my first reply went, but this challenge intrigued me to think what I’d try to do in this situation…

APL03 wrote:

I’ve done this before for the Amex 2-4-1 but have read conflicting things regarding the upgrade voucher on here (due to the origin flight needing to be in the UK and whether the return booking ends up being non eligible as it’s seen as a one way)

I concluded, I’d probably try to do this with 3 return bookings:
Booking A: Two people return using the 241
Booking B: One person return using the first upgrade voucher
Booking C: One person return using the second upgrade voucher

There are threads where people have added returns to a single person return booking using the upgrade voucher, so we know that works.

The added advantage is you can still fly if you don’t secure pairs of availability – eg. if you can only secure 3CW and 1PE on a flight, those can be split across the three bookings while you’re couldn’t book that mix if you’re organised in pairs.

The other option would be to try:
Booking A: Two people return using the 241
Booking B: Two people return using two upgrade vouchers
This means either:
1) booking the outbound upgrade voucher and then convincing an agent to add a second voucher to an existing booking when booking the return flights
2) hoping BA’s IT lets you half use the two upgrade vouchers when booking the outbound (when just fully using one would fulfil the booking currently made) so both vouchers are waiting on the booking for the return half.
I personally wouldn’t trust my holiday to those unknowns, but maybe someone has achieved it before and can correct me.

[APL03]

NorthernLass wrote:

Can you travel out on the 9th or 10th of December? SeatSpy is showing 4 x CW on both dates. With a route like TYO you need to be prepared to be flexible.

I saw that thanks, but unfortunately that’s too many days for the children to miss school (prepared to pay/ take the heat for one or two days – I know there are lots of different opinions on this controversial topic!) We tried splitting up between CW & PE too (and going back to the 11th which had availability all day) but those all went, probably to people who didn’t get the 12th as well. We will try again the next few days!

[APL03]

Does anyone know if I start to fill in the webpage online, does it have to be refreshed at midnight for the new date to become an available option (so you have to type in the airports again)?

[robato]

I had to refresh it at midnight.

[APL03]

robato wrote:

I had to refresh it at midnight.

Thanks, me too. Outbound flights secured! Now the even trickier returns to get (or a short cash booking to Hong Kong or Shanghai if all else fails!)

[travelmonkey]

Congrats on securing your outbound flights!

There are other options for using Avios with partner airlines that may not be better than the 241 but probably comparable to CW with the upgrade vouchers. Availability tends to be 2 business class per flight and PE isn’t available on the better value options but if you’ve got some extra Avios and can split into two pairs then it’s worth investigating as a backup plan. You can also consider other airports (NRT or KIX) to give yourself more options.

Some pricing for you…
A pair on Qatar in business connecting in Doha is 160,000 + £100 (no PE on Qatar)
A pair on Finnair in Business connecting in Helsinki is 161,000 + $408 (again, no PE available).

Those totals are not much more Avios than you’d pay using the upgrade vouchers for Peak CW seats and quite potentially lower fees (depending on how you book).

So, for example, if you totally fail with BA, you could try for two pairs of Finnair flights. On the right day (Fri & Sun I think?) the 21:55 from HND-HEL and the 23:10 from NRT-HEL should allow you all to connect onto the 07:50 HEL-LHR together. (Those on the HND flight would have a bit of a wait for the Helsinki lounge to open for a refreshing shower). Securing these flights is of course another matter, but might give you another option and is less competitive than the BA flights.

[APL03]

travelmonkey wrote:

Congrats on securing your outbound flights!

There are other options for using Avios with partner airlines that may not be better than the 241 but probably comparable to CW with the upgrade vouchers. Availability tends to be 2 business class per flight and PE isn’t available on the better value options but if you’ve got some extra Avios and can split into two pairs then it’s worth investigating as a backup plan. You can also consider other airports (NRT or KIX) to give yourself more options.

Some pricing for you…
A pair on Qatar in business connecting in Doha is 160,000 + £100 (no PE on Qatar)
A pair on Finnair in Business connecting in Helsinki is 161,000 + $408 (again, no PE available).

Those totals are not much more Avios than you’d pay using the upgrade vouchers for Peak CW seats and quite potentially lower fees (depending on how you book).

So, for example, if you totally fail with BA, you could try for two pairs of Finnair flights. On the right day (Fri & Sun I think?) the 21:55 from HND-HEL and the 23:10 from NRT-HEL should allow you all to connect onto the 07:50 HEL-LHR together. (Those on the HND flight would have a bit of a wait for the Helsinki lounge to open for a refreshing shower). Securing these flights is of course another matter, but might give you another option and is less competitive than the BA flights.

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately we don’t have enough miles for this. As we are now going out & returning at peak times we need to do two people in PE and two in CW. I think the back up option is via Shanghai which seems to have a lot of availability (unless anyone has other suggestion, which would be gratefully received!)