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I’m in a bit of a pickle. Booked back to back Virgin cruises yesterday through an agent over the phone. Also booked return united flights.
Just joined the Facebook pages for the cruises this am and people saying Virgin told them they couldn’t do B2B on that itinerary.
Apparently us maritime law states if a cruise starts in one us port but finishes in a different us port, the ship needs to visit a distant port in between. B2B cruises are regarded as one cruise legally apparently.
My itinerary was
NYC-Quebec
Quebec-Miami
None of the ports will be regarded as distant ports.
I booked B2B as Quebec is really difficult to get to from EDI/GLA.
Agent offices closed until Monday.
Virgin voyages closed until 11am I think.
I have 24hrs to cancel flights but need to do that before Virgin Voyages open for calls so can’t even check details.
Anyone know if the Facebook posts are accurate?I’m not a lawyer nor an expert on The jones Act (although have a passing knowledge of it from my business dealings). This does appear to be correct – a back-to-back cruise is seen as one cruise so you may well not be permitted to do this as you’re not visiting a “distant” foreign port in between.
All very odd under the circumstances – but may be worth cancelling your flight whilst it’s fully refundable and then seeking clarification from your “agent” who made the cruise booking.Cancelled my flights then phoned Virgin Voyages who confirmed that there are 3 back to back Brilliant Lady itineraries restricted by maritime law including my back to backs.
I think it should be made clearer on the website as back to back voyages are pretty common.
Guess my UK cruise agent knows nothing about US cruise law…..Pleased you got the flight cancelled in time
It is unusual – but you’re right, cruise agents should be aware of thisGuess my UK cruise agent knows nothing about US cruise law…..
The Jones Act doesn’t mention cruises but there is a separate (and older) law that has roughly the same provisions.
This has a good summary of the Jones Act
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/jonesact.asp
It only applies to non US registered, owned and built ships that have to have a high % of US citizens working on them.
@Baflyerihgstayer, Virgin voyages mentioned both PVSA and Jones act to explain the restriction on the 3 back to back cruises….
Also for an itinerary like this (UK > US > Canada > US), you only have 90 days in total from the first time you entered the US, because when you go to Canada and back the US doesn’t consider this as having departed the US – even though you have to go through immigration every time.
I went on a cruise around the USVIs from MIA years ago, and I recall someone telling me that by law the ship had to visit at least one port outside US waters. So to comply with this rule, it spent a day at a tiny private island in the Bahamas, which are nearer to the continental US than the USVIs are!
I don’t understand why Quebec does not qualify as a foreign port.
To answer my own question.
I had some knowledge of the “Jones Act” (actually the PVSA in the case of cruise ships) but I thought any foreign port of call got round it. What I hadn’t realised was that it had to be a “distant” foreign port when you start and end in different US ports.
There is a good article on Cruise Critic that explains the issue. To quote
“The second exception to the law allows a ship to pick passengers up in one U.S. port, but drop them off in a different U.S. port, but only after visiting a distant foreign port, defined as being outside of North America, Central America, Bermuda and the West Indies, including the Bahamas, but excluding the former Netherlands Antilles islands of Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao (ABC Islands). That means that a Panama Canal cruise from Fort Lauderdale to Los Angeles must stop in a South American port — often Cartagena, to avoid a violation.“
A back to back NYC-QUEBEC-NYC would be fine, as you would not be transported between two different US ports
I booked B2B as Quebec is really difficult to get to from EDI/GLA.
When are you travelling? I’ve been looking at trips to YQB and it doesn’t seem that bad to get to from Edinburgh.
United connects in Newark, Air Canada connects in both Toronto and Montreal, and Air France connects in CDG all with not unreasonable connections.
If you’re happy to break your journey overnight due to timings, Connections are also available with United via Chicago and American via Philadelphia
It’s also an easy and attractive short 3hr drive from Montreal airport to Québec City which offers many more options.
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