IMPORTANT: American Express suspends the scrapping of pro-rata card fee refunds

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• Rog says:

  28 Sep28 September 08:58

  I might step in as advocate (ready to be shot down) of Amex. I did a quick review of my Centurion.

  Insurance – whole family plus parent (nearly 80) which is worth a great deal. Maybe £400 a head+. Plus Sisters and families – £200 ish. £1000 Harvey Nics and Clos19. Probably worth £800 in reality unless you use the sale (in which case more than £1,000 but not for this comparison).

  Concierge is brilliant generally. Restaurant tables and O2 Box (use that 5-6 times a year) but obviously niche London market I freely admit.

  Travel is bug bear – why it’s far far more expensive than a simple web search or direct on many occasions. They claim it’s ‘benefits’, which never meet the value you don’t get from booking direct and that it’s ‘flexible’. Neither argument holds up and have complained many times with evidence. A friend internally worked on training a while back and told me first hand that Centurion/Plat are seen as valuing time more and will pay top money. I suggested politely this was hogwash.

  I am actually about to renew. Last year was 270,000 MR retention….

  Happy to prove that to Rob/team before anyone jumps in and disbelieves – had it three years running.

  • CC says:

    28 Sep28 September 09:29

    How much do you put through it per year roughly?

  • Sloth says:

    28 Sep28 September 09:36

    No reason to disbelieve, why would there be…how much do you pay per year to renew, ie how much are you paying for those 270k avios?

    Wondering on JDB’s reaction when he realises that Centurion isn’t the beacon of hope that he thought it was…

    • JDB says:

      28 Sep28 September 10:12

      @sloth – haha! Perhaps I’m fortunate in that I don’t need a flash credit card to establish my status or credentials! We were taught to be discreet about money, so for my parents and many of their friends from very traditional backgrounds, just a gold card or a gold Rolex would cause raised eyebrows. I can’t imagine what they might say about a Centurion card although, amusingly, they probably wouldn’t recognise it. If they knew what the initial and annual fees were they would be mortified.

      • Sloth says:

        28 Sep28 September 10:21

        Totally agree with that, without saying where I work, it’s the people that show off that have far less than those that don’t. I think that the same in most facets of life though

  • JDB says:

    28 Sep28 September 09:53

    Centurion doesn’t affect many people here, but the sums attributed to the benefits are delusional. Travel insurance is worth “£400 a head+” – seriously? It’s free with HSBC and only £156 with Nationwide Flex+ which also throws in AA cover (UK + Europe). I guess the latter is perhaps too plebeian to contemplate for a posh Centurion!

    I don’t really like the idea paying Amex a big lump sum and them then handing some chunk of that fee back as long as you shop in places Amex chooses. If I were ‘given’ £1000, I wouldn’t wish to spend it at either Harvey Nichols or Clos 19 but that’s a personal choice. There’s more than 20% loss of value at Clos 19 as those products are widely discounted by more than that on a daily basis in such luxury outlets as Tesco.

    As for the concierge, I wager I can outbook them at restaurants (and choose the table I want) 90% of the time. The personal touch still counts for a lot in hospitality.

    Clearly the £2700 / 270k MR inducement moves the needle but most analyses suggest that the benefits don’t outweigh the fee, concierge service has reduced and you forgo lots of points.

    The value appears to lie more in the bragging rights which certain people obviously value very highly.

    • The real Swiss Tony says:

      28 Sep28 September 11:14

      The other issue with the insurance (unless Centurion is a true outlier) is that many many pre-existing conditions aren’t covered. By the time you’re 80, I would argue that the vast majority of the population will have been diagnosed with underlying health conditions that the Amex policy doesn’t cover.

      We are getting way better at diagnosing conditions but Amex are struggling to evolve this aspect of the insurance to keep up…

      • QwertyKnowsBest says:

        29 Sep29 September 08:08

        Spot on!!! The highly prestigious 😉Nationwide Flex Account customisable insurance beats Amex in this regards also in respect of travel delay compensation.

    • Harry T says:

      28 Sep28 September 11:50

      Agree with JDB here, unless I’m getting a private jet to the Mayo Clinic every time I stub my toe, I can’t see how travel insurance can be worth £400 a year.

      • CarpalTravel says:

        28 Sep28 September 11:55

        Perhaps they are all extremely accident prone?

    • Rog says:

      28 Sep28 September 14:21

      I’m not biting ;-).

      It’s not a flash Credit Card – it’s a Charge Card.

      Am from very traditional background also and would never presume to be so impolite as to comment on someone’s background or what they wish to do in their life. Oddly enough, for those of them that are aware, celebrate the hidden 16 hours a day seven days a week one puts in to get there.

      Approx £100K+ per annum spend.

      It’s £3,400 per annum currently as I recall. Just asked about renewal bonus and should be similar (250K) should confirm next week.

      Insurance – covers itself 10* over, when was the last time you tried to actually utilise free HSBC Insurance? For example, I was stuck at Chicago (weather) only 4 weeks ago and Centurion team found a hotel room at midnight when there ‘wasn’t one’ with whole team phoning round – exceptional. Also swift payment allowance for delayed luggage (which happens a great deal more than you think) £400/ additional £400 depending on delay not 12 hours.

      Two parents – over 70 with multi trips per annum inc USA (sorry two parents not singular). You may note the Nationwide policy is 70 and upgrade is required for 70+ (£65). That’s before you take the Hertz LDW extended Insurance cover (saved me $800 last trip to US – 14 days $50 a day) – per car – in fees in last year alone so actually £400 is probably light! Plus no excess in event of incident.

      Amex £5 Million medical cover, £5K cover for valuables not £1,500 etc etc etc.

      You don’t need to choose to give Amex that amount, but that shouldn’t mean you criticise anyone who wishes to. Question, yes, perfectly acceptable and reasonable. I would never presume to cast aspersions on your choices.

      • Travel Strong says:

        28 Sep28 September 15:04

        It sounds like the exact same scenario as platinum (I.e. retention bonuses make the value case. I’d be OK with the Centurion cost too if 80% of the cost is rebated by means of MR points each year).. As an aside though, i’ve damaged most rental cars I’ve had in the USA and not met anything that wasn’t covered by the included CDW. But if you were going to pay for excess cover, the price for comparison is the cost of a policy, not the $50/day optional extra from the facility. Really don’t think it is needed in the USA though, so long as you have the CDW, there is no excess.

        • Rog says:

          28 Sep28 September 15:20

          Remind me never to get in a rental car with you haha 🙂 noted on excess. Still decent value and brilliant if with Plat also. Worth the card fee for one two week trip almost?

        • David says:

          29 Sep29 September 02:10

          Try not to Travel so strong. I’ve only had someone hit my car in a car park and that’s one claim out of “I can’t even remember”.

      • BSI1978 says:

        28 Sep28 September 15:42

        A very considered and reasonable response given the initial comment; kudos to you!

        • Rog says:

          28 Sep28 September 15:55

          Appreciated. I always found this site/community extremely friendly and knowledgeable so no point in being anything but.

          Well, maybe not so much knowledgable haha.

        • CarpalTravel says:

          28 Sep28 September 20:55

          +1!

        • CarpalTravel says:

          28 Sep28 September 20:56

          The +1 was to @BSI1978, echoing their comment. (Darn thread formatting!)

      • BP says:

        28 Sep28 September 16:04

        My last claim on HSBC insurance was auto-approved after I submitted the online form. Pretty easy and a larger value claim involving MRI scans, physio and other treatments was approved without issue. No complaints at all with them!

• BJ says:

  28 Sep28 September 09:10

  I would not be at all surprised if the biggest story on HfP 2024 is an announcement from amex that they plan to exit the UK market.

  • Harrier25 says:

    28 Sep28 September 09:19

    Me neither. That thought has been sat in the back of my mind for a while.

  • Gordon says:

    28 Sep28 September 09:45

    Barclaycard will mop up re Avios collectors!
    If this happened, the one thing I would miss would be the 2-4-1.

    • rob keane says:

      28 Sep28 September 10:09

      you are assuming that barclaycard would not replicate Amex’s 2-4-1 on an amex exit.

      • Gordon says:

        28 Sep28 September 10:19

        Considering the amount of customers that barclaycard would gain on an Amex exit, I don’t think they would need to offer incentives!

  • Lady London says:

    28 Sep28 September 10:27

    yup, I had not thought quite as early as 2024 but think I posted within 10yrs around 2021.

    On the face of it some conditions in the UK have got tougher faster since then but there is most definitely a good market here for Amex particularly if they get the higher end right. Perhaps they’d want to service it from an international centre of decent quality, most likely in-house, so as to capture the wealth that uses the UK.

    But mostly I think they gor their strategy wrong.

    I also have in mind Amex sold its shops in the UK to Kanoo quite suddenly too.

  • Brighton Belle says:

    28 Sep28 September 12:57

    That would be a downer in our town. Amex HQ employs lots and the Seagulls would be miffed

  • David says:

    28 Sep28 September 13:02

    We need Citi or Chase (CCs) to hop on over.

  • jjoohhnn says:

    28 Sep28 September 15:41

    But if people don’t have amex cards, then there is no reason for shops to accept them, and it dilutes further the value of amex globally..

  • points_worrier says:

    28 Sep28 September 16:06

    It actually could be.
    No more foreign currency cards; all cards being transitioned to a credit model; Green card removed; Interchange fee slashed for all but co-branded cards; Many people playing the game with intro bonuses; Me whinging and working up the formal complaints process when I don’t get my £50 Harvey Nicks credit as I should have (and Amex finally accepted this after FOS involvement…); ?BA agreement must be up for renewal soon as well.

    • Rob says:

      28 Sep28 September 16:20

      BA contract was extended during covid as part of Amex’s bailout of BA. Barclays tried to get the contact off them but failed.

• Paul says:

  28 Sep28 September 10:42

  I have concerns about the age restriction on Amex travel insurance. The 70 year age limit is mad today.

  But my biggest issue is their 3% FX fee. I have a huge ( for me at least) purchase to make in Australia and if I use Amex it adds £500 to the costs. While I have been a customer since 2007 this is really the first time that the 3% FX fee has really pulled me up short. On the odd hotel bill, meal out or car hire it often didn’t register. More recently I have been using it to hire cars but on return and when I am told the bill will be close choose another form of payment.
  In the USA acceptance is almost universal, in Europe it is very mixed and in Germany and Greece positively frond upon. I now have a chase account and a starling Euro account and these work well with competitive FX rates without any fees.
  I am also planning to move home in the next 12 months and at that point too I’ll need to review matters. There just aunt the opportunities outside the London area for it to be worth it long term.

  • Gordon says:

    28 Sep28 September 11:14

    Re this purchase, have you considered applying for a card with no FX fees like Chase! Although the rates are a couple of cents below the standard rates it may help.

    • The real Swiss Tony says:

      28 Sep28 September 11:16

      The problem being the requirement for a £17k credit limit, presumably….

      • Gordon says:

        28 Sep28 September 11:20

        There is an option for splitting the bill across both Amex and chase to save a percentage!

  • RussellH says:

    28 Sep28 September 11:17

    Totally agree with your point about travel insurance. And I suspect that even for those under 70, it excludes all pre-exixting conditions, which must make it useless to many younger people too. Arguably, they should consider offering the card at a cheper rate to those who cannot benefit from the insurance.
    Also agree about the 3% FX fee, though to me, it always registers.
    I have paid small amounts in the USA on a Gold Amex which gave me ~2% back in MR points, but these days I only have the free Rewards card which has only once been used outwith the UK – because of a good money back offer which more than wiped out the 3%.

    • StanTheMan says:

      28 Sep28 September 13:02

      But if fall down some steps and break your leg on holiday, having asthma/high blood pressure/ diabetes wont prevent the claim being successful.

      • RussellH says:

        28 Sep28 September 13:10

        They would quite possibly try to argue that asthma/high blood pressure/diabetes had “contributed” to the fall and denied the claim…

        • StanTheMan says:

          28 Sep28 September 13:19

          Mmmmmm. I think I’d still take my chances. Hard to prove an elevated level of blood glucose caused the wet tiles you slipped on.

          Private health care also wont cover chronic conditions either so it’s not like this Amex policy is totally out of left field.

        • Dan Dodex says:

          28 Sep28 September 14:17

          They do this unsurprisingly often.

      • JDB says:

        28 Sep28 September 13:49

        But it definitely means you wouldn’t be covered for anything circulatory or breathing related and that’s potentially a huge range of incidents. It’s not hard to link a fall to BP issues or other health conditions. It would be completely nuts to leave yourself uncovered in this way and hope to argue your way out of it. The particular issue is that Amex excludes some of the most common pre-existing conditions – high blood pressure and high cholesterol that affect c. 40% of the population. You also can’t ’buy out’ these conditions as allowed by many insurers. HSBC covers these and Nationwide lets you ‘buy out’ conditions at a modest cost. The list of what Amex does allow as pre-existing conditions is risible.

    • Mzungu says:

      28 Sep28 September 14:02

      I tried relying on the travel insurance, and it failed me. In one trip, my wife had a medical issue which they declined to pay due to a “pre-existing condition”.
      We also had flight cancellations and delays, tried twice to claim, could never reach the right person, and call-backs didn’t materialise, so I eventually gave up.

      I now have ‘proper’ travel insurance, and bought a decent annual car hire excess policy for £30 this week.

      I cancelled my last Amex card a few days ago (before I saw this article), now just keeping my wife’s free BA card for paying the BA surcharges on what will be our last 241.

      Barclaycard does everything we need, and is accepted where Amex isn’t , so no need for another card.

• Chris says:

  28 Sep28 September 10:51

  Can someone direct me to any recent articles about bonus points for applying for a supplementary card holder? Do you get them automatically, or do you have to apply via a particular page? I applied for a Platinum card and it arrived yesterday to replace the BAPP card I was going to cancel for a refund.
  When I went on the Chat to cancel my BAPP card, I was £100 short of the £10,000 spend for a companion voucher, but had £500 “pending”. They told me if I cancelled it, the pending spend would not count, and I would not get the voucher. So I delayed until that pending spend cleared. Now, thanks to Robs article, I am not in a hurry to close the account. However, no-one offered me any incentive when I said I wanted to cancel.

  • Rob says:

    28 Sep28 September 11:26

    There is a special page.

    • Chris says:

      28 Sep28 September 11:29

      Thanks Rob. Could you help directing me to that page, or send me a link?

      • Thomas Atkins says:

        28 Sep28 September 11:49

        From memory, wait a few days after u receive yr main card then log in to yr account and look for supplementary cards. Also try the search box on the HfP website. You only get the supp bonus once per main card though 👍🏿

        • Chris says:

          28 Sep28 September 12:33

          Thanks. I will wait a few days – unless Rob lets me know otherwise after his conference.
          Dedicated to be on a conference and still replying to us….

      • Rob says:

        28 Sep28 September 11:56

        I would if I wasn’t in a conference 🙂

      • Chris says:

        28 Sep28 September 13:55

        Thanks Sloth, but I was looking for the page where I get bonus points for applying for my first supplementary card.

      • Chris says:

        28 Sep28 September 13:57

        AND, if only I had scrolled down the page, I would have seen it. Thanks. That does help.

• Mikeact says:

  28 Sep28 September 10:54

  @JDB Spot on…totally agree. Is Hannah from the US on secondment ?

  • Mikeact says:

    28 Sep28 September 11:10

    @JDB Re 22.27pm post.

    • JDB says:

      28 Sep28 September 11:31

      No she has worked at Amex for a good while. Very good at talking the talk apparently.

• Coo says:

  28 Sep28 September 11:30

  “This is only the beginning” Rob Burgess, 2023 A.D.

  Some people won’t be (very) happy from Monday!

  • Travel Strong says:

    28 Sep28 September 12:55

    Struggling to think of any reason not to cancel platinum anyway… my renewal is coincidentally due on the 1st Oct!
    I’m not travelling until March, I can reapply then if I really want it… what possible problem with this approach lies in these cryptic warning?! My alternative is to wait until I am technically committed to a £595 fee on Monday… without knowing what the new info actually is.

    • Carlos says:

      28 Sep28 September 12:59

      no you cant just assume your application will be automatically accepted after cancelling platinum

    • Travel Strong says:

      28 Sep28 September 13:25

      I am not fussed on that – as I’m walking based on the marginal value offered. They would have to entice me back as it stands not the other way round!

    • Coo says:

      28 Sep28 September 13:26

      It’s astonishing that people are getting worked up because their ability to squeeze and benefit disproportionately is being limited.

      If you can’t afford the £595 fee, that’s okay. You don’t have to game everything for monopoly money and points.

      • Travel Strong says:

        28 Sep28 September 13:33

        Yes, actually. I do. It is what I’m here for 😂

        • Coo says:

          28 Sep28 September 13:44

          As most of us, to be honest.

          But I am not stressing about things that are out of my control such as the overthinking of cancelling or not cancelling a card.

  • Sloth says:

    28 Sep28 September 13:00

    I’ve just had a mail shot delivered, a glossy booklet and leaflet reminding me of all the Plat benefits… so I’d hazard a guess at a price rise…

    • Travel Strong says:

      28 Sep28 September 13:32

      Just got the same leaflet. It did nothing wrong to convince of the value 😅 the fact is, referral and retention bonuses are core to the value proposition, and they are both on shakey ground right now – with myself and others already being fed new ‘rules’ on referrals by agents.

      Given that there are more benefits to new customers (SUBs, Travel credit)… it would actually be more logical and pursuasive if the fee was *lower* after year 1. That is a logical thing that might actually retain people compared to them leaving and (maybe) coming back later at the higher price.

      • Rob says:

        28 Sep28 September 13:54

        You could follow the London club model where the fee never goes up from the year you join, which gives you an incentive not to quit. There are people who still pay the £10 they paid in the 1960s for some London clubs. Even my Arts Club membership is at 40% of the current rate and I’ve only had that for 10 years or so.

        • Coo says:

          28 Sep28 September 14:31

          Give us some bread crumbs monsieur Rob about the changes.

          Will they require a BREAKING tag?

          Will the changes manage to break viewership records for HfP?

          Something, something…

        • points_worrier says:

          28 Sep28 September 16:08

          Is that most clubs? I can assure you my MCC membership goes up heartily each year.

        • Rob says:

          28 Sep28 September 16:19

          Not sure MCC counts as a Mayfair / Soho / Pall Mall club!

      • Amy says:

        30 Sep30 September 09:47

        I also got this. With the card insert telling me which were benefits for me and which for the supplementary holder. I hadn’t realised the hotel status could be extended to support holders – is that new or have I just overlooked it?

        • Rob says:

          30 Sep30 September 09:48

          Always been the case for Plat supps but you only get one free Plat supp now.

• Shu says:

  28 Sep28 September 12:45

  Good Afternoon,
  Further to my previous comment, I just spoke with Trisha from the Plat CS team who confirmed to me that the pro-rata refund suspension is not coming into effect on the 2nd of October, and the new date will be communicated back to the cardholders imminently.
  However, all the other rules are still coming into effect as planned.

  Thank you ROB for all your input in clarifying these matters, I guess many of your responses are limited due to FCA rules and what not.

  @JDB, you are completely correct about the dropping of standards across the board at AMEX.
  I’ve had a disputed charge reversed when the law is completely behind me and my claim (detailed conversation for another time/thread). Amex lacked the interest, let alone the knowledge to handle this correctly, and they gave in to the baseless bullying of the merchant and charged me despite my dispute.
  For me it just felt like Amex are not behind their customers anymore.
  Maybe it’s the entire consumer world being affected? R.I.P “customer first”?

  I am just curious how this Over-Regulated environment is going to affect all of us in the future.

  • Richie says:

    28 Sep28 September 13:56

    It’s revenues first, customers last. As long as the revenues are ok, for now.

• kpinc says:

  28 Sep28 September 13:29

  The upgrade to Platinum page, although still there, leads to a “We’re having trouble finding the page you’re looking for.” after logging in… and I don’t know if this is related.

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