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Will Virgin Atlantic announce a new aircraft order at Farnborough?

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I spent last weekend in Las Vegas with Shai Weiss, CEO of Virgin Atlantic, and Sir Richard Branson (and some other people, not just the three of us!) to celebrate the airline’s upcoming 40th birthday on 22nd June.

As part of the celebrations I sat down with Shai to discuss what Virgin Atlantic is up to and where he sees the airline heading.

We covered a vast range of topics including their plans for profitability, a new terminal at Heathrow and Flying Club changes – look out for these stories later in the week – but in this article I want to look at what’s happening with Virgin Atlantic’s fleet.

Virgin Atlantic to announce a new aircraft order?

Over the past decade, but particularly since 2019, Virgin Atlantic has been on a huge fleet renewal program to replace older, less efficient aircraft with newer ones.

Since 2019 Virgin Atlantic has taken delivery of 12 A350s and 4 A330neos, whilst the pandemic accelerated the retirement of the gas-guzzling Boeing 747s (albeit not without a suitable send-off).

By the end of this year Virgin Atlantic will operate 45 aircraft, a number that will remain static “as we replace A330s with A330neos” according to Shai.

When the last neo of the current order arrives in 2028, Virgin Atlantic will have a fleet comprised entirely of new generation planes – or, to use one of Shai’s favourite phrases, “the youngest fleet in the sky.”

This will include 17 Boeing 787 Dreamliners, which at that point will be between 10 and 14 years old.

What will happen with the Dreamliner fleet?

10-14 years old is an interesting age for leased aircraft. Most initial leases are around 12 years long: after that, the airline and lessor need to renegotiate a renewal or part ways.

For Virgin Atlantic, that means an important juncture is quickly approaching:

“We’re considering what to do with our Dreamliners; we have 17 of them. We need to make a decision on whether to maintain or replace them. But they’re very good planes, other than the issues with the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines.”

What is interesting is that, over the past 40 years, Virgin Atlantic has gone from an all-Boeing fleet (with the first Boeing 747-100 in 1984) to an Airbus-heavy fleet of (eventually) 12 A350s and 14 A330neos.

With the 787s coming up on their leases, Virgin Atlantic has an opportunity to reconsider its long-term structure. Based on my conversation, it seems like a new aircraft order may be on the cards.

During our interview, Shai told me he was attending the Farnborough International Air Show this year. It is an opportunity for airlines to meet manufacturers and suppliers, but it is also where major aircraft orders are often announced.

Whilst some airline CEOs attend every year, others are more elusive; to my knowledge, Shai Weiss has never made a public appearance there, suggesting that he has something to announce.

I asked him if he is about to announce an aircraft order.

He takes a long, teasing pause. “Possibly.”

Virgin Atlantic could announce an order for more A330neos

Assuming I am right, and his appearance at Farnborough is no coincidence, then my money would be on a follow-on order for more A330neos. It is the only aircraft that makes sense as a Dreamliner replacement: the A350 and Boeing 777X are too large.

It would help that Virgin Atlantic still has options for eight further A330neos from its original order in 2019 – not enough to replace the entire Dreamliner fleet of 17 but enough to get them going.

I’ve also been told that Airbus has chartered one of Virgin’s A330neos for display at the show. It would make sense that Airbus would want to showcase a customer that already operates the aircraft and is keen for more.

The A330neo is the same size as the Dreamliner

So why is the A330neo a good Dreamliner replacement?

For a start, the capacity of Virgin Atlantic’s A330neos and 787s are almost identical, with a difference of just four seats overall:

Virgin configurationA330-900neoBoeing 787-9
Total seats262258
Upper Class3231
Premium4635
Economy184192

Interestingly, the A330neos have a slightly more premium configuration with an additional seat in Upper Class and 11 more seats in the ever-popular Premium cabin, at the expense of eight economy seats.

Additional neos would therefore be an almost like-for-like replacement for the Dreamliners, leaving overall capacity relatively unchanged.

Improved fleet commonality

For a small airline such as Virgin Atlantic – and it is comparatively small, with just 45 aircraft – operating three different types adds unnecessary additional complexity in terms of maintenance and pilot and crew training.

It is very easy for pilots and crew to operate on both A350s and A330s due to the commonality of the aircraft. For example, EASA in Europe issues what is called a ‘common type rating’ which requires only minimal additional training. According to Airbus:

A330 pilots are expected to qualify on the A350 in eight working days without mandated Full Flight Simulator time.” 

If Virgin Atlantic moved to an entirely Airbus operation with the A350 and A330neo it would enjoy additional flexibility in how and when it deploys staff, and reduce operational duplication.

Virgin Atlantic new fleet order?

The A330neo is likely to be cheaper

Aircraft list prices are hard to come by and are pretty meaningless anyway, as airlines typically negotiate steep discounts. However, it is likely that the A330neo is cheaper than a Boeing 787 due to a cheaper, mostly aluminium manufacturing process vs the 787’s more advanced carbon fibre construction.

The 787 is also heavily outselling the A330neo, putting pressure on Airbus to offer better pricing to stimulate demand and fill production slots.

In most cases, it would make sense to extend the lease of the Dreamliners. After all, it’s easier to keep existing aircraft than integrate new ones, especially as they already have cabins fitted out.

In this case, however, the lessors may be in a stronger position due to the high demand for the Dreamliner. There is also no financial benefit to keeping the Dreamliners as the interiors need replacing anyway: the 22-year old Upper Class seat is long overdue for an update. Shai told me that “if we were to retrofit the 787, it would probably be in the configuration of the A330-900neo.”

Since both the existing Dreamliner fleet and any incoming new aircraft need a new cabin, there is no benefit to sticking with the Dreamliner.

Conclusion

Whilst far from confirmed, it is clear that something must happen with Virgin Atlantic’s fleet soon. Shai’s attendance at Farnbough, his cagey answers and the suggestion that an announcement on the fleet “may come even earlier than late summer” suggest we will soon find out.


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Comments (73)

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

  • Dutchy says:

    Don’t forget that Delta are a shareholder and their wide body fleet is Airbus heavy and they have huge in-house maintenance capabilities. Assuming VS can access these capabilities and share parts, I suspect it makes sense to align their fleet closer to Delta’s

  • RobH not Rob says:

    Our Virgin flight from Turks & Caicos to LHR was cancelled with the plane on the runway last Tuesday due to a right engine problem, chaos ensued. Couldn’t be fixes and was grounded for days apparently awaiting repair. The repatriation flight used a plane from San Franciso so I’m sure the cost and pain to Virgin wasn’t insignificant.

    Pretty sure it was a Dreamliner.

    • Rhys says:

      The Trent 1000 issues were about fleet durability rather than individual engine problems and have largely disappeared, so it probably wasn’t related.

    • AL says:

      VS164 (MBJ-PLS-LHR) is ordinarily a 789, so – yes – it was a Dreamliner.

  • G says:

    Anything that replaces that awful reverse herringbone seat. Air NZ are getting rid of them in their fleet revamp plans too.

    • Kaconym says:

      I belive since they are asile facing they are ‘herringbone’ seats, rather than ‘reverse herringbon’e which face away from the asile.

      Air NZ are replacing them with more (admittedly much nicer looking) herringbone seats unfortunatly. Seems like a bit of an odd choice though, the seats don’t look like anything special, although a big improvement over their current seats for sure.

  • roberto says:

    The 330 old upper seat is like sleeping on a park bench. Which every way they go when replacing this product will be a step forward.

    Just from a VFM point of view I would rather suck it up and fly PE on a VS night flight than fly the old flip seat.

  • sturgeon says:

    Isn’t the 787 flip seat in bed mode actually decent? Thought that’s the only thing going for it. I now actively avoid it for today flights as the entire lack of privacy defeats some of the purpose of shelling out for business class.

    • Rhys says:

      The mattress is decent. I find it very tight though.

    • GM says:

      Personally find it a comfy bed – no gaps. But I don’t mind firm, and I’m petite. Still very outdated though, and in need of replacement. The “fear” of swaps has made me choose A seats pretty much exclusively, so that I don’t get stuck staring at people if my A350 becomes a 787. First world problems I know, but the lack of consistency is annoying when paying so much.

  • Chris W says:

    An increasing number of travellers are avoiding Virgin altogether for fear of getting a 787 Upper Class seat. Announcing a big aircraft order to phase the 787s out over what, the next 6 years doesn’t win back those customers.

    They need an interim solution

    • Rob says:

      Totally agree. My Neo flight to JFK was swapped at the last minute last October and passengers not even told until the gate.

      • Jonathan says:

        @Rhys, was this seemingly very common issue addressed to Shai at all ?

        He needs to understand how bad this problem is, and something that comes up quite often (or more than it should do so) here on HfP…

        • Rhys says:

          Aircraft swaps are only an issue because the old seat is an issue. Get rid of the old seat and it’s less annoying.

        • AL says:

          Then again, HfP readers are likely not VS’ regular fliers. For example, I fly multiple times a year to LAS and I fall in to the single digit percentage of people who are business travellers there. This is likely true of many routes, too. I always consider themselves leisure heavy rather than business heavy, whereas I wonder if premium cabins on BA are the reverse.

        • Chris W says:

          I assume Rhys would have asked him about that, given what a well-publicised issue it is. It is surely far more topical than what aircraft they may order in the future.

          I guess we shall find out later this week….

  • Jack says:

    Off topic, hope that’s ok. I’m about to book 4 x long haul flights from London to Buenos Aires (econ unfortunately..), and got a 241 voucher (havent used one in a while). Total cost for 4 flights would be approx £7200 (same in other airlines).
    Using avios + 241 I can get it for:
    240,000 avios + £1000 (2.58 avios value using simple method)
    186,000 + £1320 (3.16)
    105,000 + £1760 (4.91)
    47,700 + £2720 (9.39 value!)

    And a few more in between. Point being, i always run this excercise and it is the first time i see such a massive difference when you go further down the list. 9.39 value is crazy high no? Obviously the 241 is skewing the results, but with such a high spread I’m not sure what to do. Am I missing anything or “value” (which i know is hard to define) always goes this high when using a 241?

    • Rob says:

      Assume 1p per Avios, recalculate and go with cheapest. Simplistic but works.

      • Jack says:

        Thanks Rob, so, so if i turn those avios into gbp using 1p + taxes:
        3400gbp, 3180gbp, 3125gbp, 3090gbp, 3080gbp, 3197gbp.

        So yeah, not much of a difference anymore.. though way less exciting, I though i was getting an incredible deal using the other method 🙁

        • jackbones says:

          Rob, surely if the £7200 cash price is the alternative (and they must fly on those dates) then looking at the other method makes more sense no? You get a more realistic value of how much you are getting out of the avios as you’d definitely be paying full cash otherwise.

          • Rob says:

            There’s a lot to look at – Avios replacement value for eg. You may place more value on keeping a stash for your next 241 even if using more now is ‘better’ financially.

          • Throwawayname says:

            Ethiopian occasionally have superb business class offers to GRU and EZE if you are willing to play around with departure points- I have seen as low as €1450 return from CAI.

  • Nick says:

    The A330neo is an old-generation aircraft slightly modified with new engines but ultimately still legacy. It’s sold primarily for two reasons – either a cheapskate airline that doesn’t want to pay for a real next-gen (A350) or one that wants to jump the queue (much shorter waiting list than A350). I can see why VS would be tempted on both these counts, but it’s still a bit disappointing that they’ve chosen second-class and I wonder if they’ll regret it in a few years. Would be interesting to see their business case vs (for example) more A35Ks.

    • Rhys says:

      You compare it as the cheap version of the A350 but ignore the differences in size/range/payload!

      Nothing has been chosen yet – this is purely speculation on my part. Another option could be to get A359s for mid-level capacity between their A339s and A35Ks.

      • ADS says:

        There’s also a question about the lifetime maintenance costs of carbon fibre airframes – including the amount of time they are out of service when damage occurs. Costs are so much cheaper and quicker with aluminium repairs.

        On the other hand, Norwegian learnt the hard way that putting all your eggs in one (Dreamliner) basket can go horribly wrong. Whilst commonality looks great in the short term, there are definite advantages to a diverse fleet.

      • HampshireHog says:

        I’m not sure the 330Neo has the range for routes such as Cape Town or Shanghai?

This article is closed to new comments. Feel free to ask your question in the HfP forums.

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