Too little, too late? British Airways backtracks on sector based tier qualification

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• Opus says:

  6 Feb6 February 08:36

  I’ve sat to think about these changes and this is BA taking a page out of the book of the US3 and quite honestly, if you look at the US carriers their programs don’t even give you lounge access, think United & Delta but people still very much chase status with those airlines, now that maybe a different market with different behaviours, so it may not necessarily apply here but lets see how things playout. and they are also revenue based programs too.

  So compared to some other programs, “the club” is still not so bad, and the bonus points definitely help.

  The reality for me and for many people is that moving to another airline is inconvenient and a waste of my time because BA will always end up being the most convenient way for me to travel. because the other reality means that i’m either flying virgin which has a limited route network or goes somewhere today and pulls out tomorrow and then i have to fly a completely different airline for short haul which will most likely be an LCC or i’d have to stop in another hub just to get to somewhere thats an hour away? or if i’m going to the US i’d have to stop somewhere else in Europe first before getting there, that is extremely pointless to me and a waste of time and i absolutely love to fly but please.

  Yes the changes suck but its not the worst in the world. Many of you on here are business owners, and BA like many businesses are chasing customers that give them value and yield.

  • Paul says:

    6 Feb6 February 08:52

    There is absolutely no comparison between the US market and the hoards of road warriors who fly every week domestically and BA.
    I would agree that unbundling of CE and CW is on the way and that lounge access will become expensive.

    The changes are however absolutely appalling for premium leisure passengers. As I have pointed out before, it’s not £7.5k or £20k for them! It’s often £15k/£40k, indeed very much more given you must exclude taxes, and they/we travel as couples.

    • JDB says:

      6 Feb6 February 09:08

      @Paul – if you are a consistently premium leisure traveller, you are going to lose very little if anything at all. It’s those who travel economy on occasions who will lose the most. BA is understandably not too bothered about that.

      • Phil says:

        6 Feb6 February 10:07

        Actually they are. Most people travelling in prem leisure have other flights not in J or F – the weekend away that doesn’t warrant a CE flight to get 2hrs next to a table

        • JDB says:

          6 Feb6 February 11:18

          @Phil – that’s why I used the word “consistently”! I’m afraid I’m of an age where I would rather be next to a table than squidged into a middle seat next to a tattooed stranger or be involved in the economy boarding melée of BA or an LCC. As such CE is a decent and good value product for cash or Avios, even for the shortest of flights and duration shouldn’t really be a determinant. If the discomfort economy is acceptable to someone for the flight, the whole package of removed benefits ought to be acceptable.

          As for the lounge access if travelling economy, this site is heavily larded with incredibly negative comments about BA lounges, so those commenters shouldn’t be at all concerned about lack of access from status.

        • Throwawayname says:

          6 Feb6 February 11:34

          @JDB that makes no sense whatsoever. I’m happy in my economy seat (the only type of seat!) for a 2-hour flight, table or no table. I’m far less happy to sit out a 6-hour connection between two short flights in a metal chair or at a dirty table at the airport Wetherspoons.

        • JDB says:

          6 Feb6 February 11:51

          @Throwawayname – everyone is different and economy isn’t for us, but we are used to long transits in airports without a lounge and are perfectly happy on the main concourse chatting, reading or watching a film.

          It’s the hypocrisy that gets me – people slagging off the BA lounges (to an unreasonable and unrealistic degree in my view) but then kicking up a monumental stink when told they might not be able to access them when they can’t qualify for status.

        • Throwawayname says:

          6 Feb6 February 11:59

          I think the explanation is they view the lounge as a hygiene factor, i.e. something that makes the experience a little less bad, as opposed to actually enjoying it.

        • John says:

          6 Feb6 February 13:11

          The people who “slag off the BA lounges” are not the same people who are complaining about no longer being able to get in

        • Phil says:

          6 Feb6 February 13:18

          I’m sorry @JDB but tattoo’d stranger?
          Are you quite sure this is the argument you want to make? It does make you sound very silly throwing things like that about tbh

        • r* says:

          6 Feb6 February 16:02

          Suggesting that taking an econ flight means people should be happy with losing status seems a little absurd.

          If you have status, you get lounge and often the exit row, versus having to pay 3+ times the price with the only extra benefit being sat next to a table for 2 hours.

          It also is possible to say the BA lounge is substandard but also want to keep access without it being hypocrisy, as its obviously substandard if compared to something like the cathay lounge but its clearly far better than something like the plaza premium.

• Petros says:

  6 Feb6 February 09:09

  This is a remarkable case study of marketing and PR mismanagement – albeit in all the worst ways – that deserves a place in textbooks and should be studied in classes. In fact, I’d love to see someone with inside knowledge dive into investigative journalism and write a book about it in a few years when the full extent of this farcical disaster has unfolded.

  • Mr. AC says:

    6 Feb6 February 11:25

    +1 Looking forward to this as a HBS case.

  • JDB says:

    6 Feb6 February 11:35

    As you say, this saga will take time to unfold but my gut feel is that partly for structural reasons and partly for practical reasons, I don’t see this will become a business school study case like Ratner’s, Nokia or Schweppes.

    There’s obviously a lot of heat and fury but inevitably what we read here or in the press is quite one sided. Not everyone is a loser under the new proposals and not everyone cares as much as some. Many of those threatening to, actually cancelling or making new bookings on other airlines will either be contributing to JVs where BA will still collect the revenue or will quietly return to BA after seeing the grass isn’t quite as green as they thought or partners actually don’t wish to fly via Timbuktu to spite BA. Others are still planning to fly BA but intend to credit to other schemes which doesn’t greatly affect BA and there can be no certainty those schemes won’t also change at short notice.

    • Petros says:

      6 Feb6 February 13:45

      This change will likely turn many paying BA customers into non-paying or lower-paying ones. Here’s why:

      When my status expires in April 2027, if nothing changes by then (lol), RJ’s status match with Marriott is a no-brainer. For $199, I get BA Club Silver, keeping lounge access, priority check-in, free seat selection, and extra baggage on BA flights.

      I’ll still fly BA, using Avios from AmEx Premium BA signup bonuses, Barclaycard, Barclays Premier, Nectar, and the BA Shopping Portal – or paying minimal amounts for short-haul flights. My flights won’t earn Avios since I’ll credit them to RJ, but last year I only earned 15k from 30 flights, so no big loss.

      Does that make me a profitable BA customer? Doubt it. I’ll lose some Gold perks but save 90–95% of what I currently spend to maintain status.

      • BSI1978 says:

        6 Feb6 February 14:51

        You’ve made a number of assumptions here about there being no changes to those status matches or other schemes in the intervening period, which seems unlikely…

      • Erico1875 says:

        6 Feb6 February 19:43

        IAG own Avios.The scheme is very profitable. So collecting/redeeming Avios, you aren’t really punishing BA/IAG as intended

        • Petros says:

          6 Feb6 February 22:41

          @Erico1875 Right now, each Avios costs me around £0.0047, and I redeem them with BA for £0.0513 – about 10 times more. Even if I ignore flights I’d never pay for, using Avios for short-haul flights that would otherwise be disproportionately expensive for the distance and flight time is still a win for me.

          @BSI1978 You’re absolutely right. I’m almost certain things won’t be the same a year from now – let alone in two – but I have to start somewhere…

  • PH says:

    7 Feb7 February 15:51

    Not even the worst UK PR farce of the last few weeks (see Barclays telling customers who couldn’t access their money due to an IT fault to try the food bank)

• LittleNick says:

  6 Feb6 February 09:45

  What very few have mentioned on these comments as far as I can see is the fact that BA have killed partner earning. If you fly a mix of BA and other Oneworld carriers flying east it still might not be worth crediting CX etc to BA. What about corporate individuals that might do more travel east on other carriers and take the odd BA flight west, would they not be worse off?

  • Jonathan says:

    6 Feb6 February 10:17

    Maybe part of the plan for them, why give someone Gold status who takes just 3 QR J bookings per year ?! Where’s anyone like that spending any money with BA, and BA is the one that picks up the expenses when they fly in say Y and take advantage of additional luggage, lounge access and priority lanes

    The requirement is easily fulfilled to take 4 sectors on BA metal for Gold, as QR will give you the option of being on BA for LHR-DOH / DOH-LHR

    • John says:

      6 Feb6 February 13:13

      QR does pay BA for the avios credited from those “3 J bookings” although now that they are interchangeable with QR avios I have no idea whether that is profitable for BA any longer

  • Rob says:

    6 Feb6 February 10:29

    It’s a decent deal with Finnair, Qatar, Iberia, AA. For the rest, yes, it’s shockingly bad. 2% of miles flown on some tickets!

    • Wanderlost says:

      6 Feb6 February 10:49

      Well, Finnair already has one easterly booking from me and if I like its biz product will be getting some more.

      Note that I’ve seen some Finnair routes that use CX, so you can hide a CX-product behind Finnair TP earnings (if you can be arsed with all the b**gering around, of course).

• Damien says:

  6 Feb6 February 09:59

  Anyone know if the Royal Jordan qualifying year is calendar, or based on when you joined?

  • LD27 says:

    6 Feb6 February 11:08

    Have a read of the forum thread under “Other frequent flyer schemes”

    • Damien says:

      6 Feb6 February 11:55

      There was no section on RJ rules explicitly, which I think should probably add now. But there was a mention under the RJ status match section… where LD27 wanted to know the exact same thing.

      Wouldn’t have been easier to just say “when you joined” instead of going RTFM.

• owen says:

  6 Feb6 February 10:09

  All my flights are usually short notice higher price tickets, around 5 long haul premium economy around £3k tickets, a handful of short haul flights and maybe a long haul business for vacation around £2500. I’ve had gold status for over 20 years on that, will struggle to make gold on the new system it seems so now looking at other options. All the calculations made use full ticket price but what I read was calculation done not including taxes or airport fees, deduct them from the ticket cost that’s huge. Now looking at other flight options with other airlines.

• Danny says:

  6 Feb6 February 11:00

  Colm Lacy doesn’t appear to practise what he preaches… Going on the brief ‘transformation’ interview he gave 7 months ago…

  https://youtu.be/X1SThLJWpHg?si=SVhUm_1IIz84XUyq

  • Rob says:

    6 Feb6 February 11:39

    I prefer this one from IAGL https://www.iagloyalty.com/news-insights/gamification-and-experiential-rewards where they explain how any good loyalty scheme has to include gamification and can’t just be based on ‘spend x, get y’.

    “Gamification offers a compelling solution by infusing transactions with elements of fun and challenge while tapping into the intrinsic human drive for achievement and reward. This dynamic approach not only boosts customer retention but also strengthens brand advocacy.

    Brands aiming to enhance their loyalty programs and build deeper customer connections should explore the transformative potential of gamification. We believe that as brands strive to maintain customer loyalty in a time when consumers are more and more conscious about where their money goes, we’ll see an increase in these brands incorporating gamification into their strategy.”

    • ChrisBCN says:

      6 Feb6 February 13:30

      Makes me wonder of there is a hidden Easter egg game nobody has found yet….

    • ed_fly says:

      6 Feb6 February 13:35

      I was interested to read the ‘gamification and loopholes’ quote from colm lacy yesterday – the points game is how I refer to this hobby.

• Bunter25 says:

  6 Feb6 February 11:24

  BA really need to change the rhetoric, for the three decades I have had involvement with the organisation there has been yearly spout about investing in the customer, onboard proposition, IT, punctuality drives blah blah blah. Where is the money saved from the FF scheme going to be invested. The lounges are third rate, Club Suite is not exactly ground breaking, LHR/LGW are worse to pass through than Lagos at times, and the net zero strategy is pie in the sky (lets all jump on the SAF band wagon).

• pete says:

  6 Feb6 February 12:49

  so i can fly 23 returns (46 sectors) to dublin on BA – credit these to my Royal Jordanian FF number and get One world Emerald for £1600 What am i missing here ? im sure ive read Robs post incorrectly haha

  • LittleNick says:

    6 Feb6 February 12:54

    I presume that is correct, you just need to do a lot of flying

  • JDB says:

    6 Feb6 February 13:42

    In principle yes, until RJ decides or another OW airline persuades RJ to decide that some of those flights must be on real RJ flights. This sort of has the if it’s too good to be true factor even if it is only going to be relevant to true airline warriors.

    • pete says:

      6 Feb6 February 14:04

      wow ok – so you can renew gold for half the price it would of cost before ?? until the goalposts move again of course…

      • JDB says:

        6 Feb6 February 16:13

        Yes, the goalposts being moved in another scheme doesn’t seem to be at the forefront of people’s minds in their panic to escape from or spite BA. Some of the RJ terms for instance are quite interesting! That’s just a taster.

        “RJ may, from time to time, change the number of Tier Miles / Segments Count needed to qualify for eachMembership Tier without prior notification”

        “RJ may reduce the Member’s tier level at its sole discretion depending on the
        Tier Miles/ Segments earned during the relevant Validity Period without
        incurring any liability on RJ towards the Member whatsoever.”

        • David S says:

          7 Feb7 February 14:49

          Just as valid for BA to change the goal posts again next year and the year after that. They could make Silver 10,000 tier points

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