An interesting day – Iberia Plus will reveal its new status system

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• Ken says:

  12 Feb12 February 08:32

  “Improve the travel experience”

  Why would anyone infer this ?

  It’s about making status related to spend, reducing costs or attempting to increase incidental revenue.

  Clearly some people might gain, it seems certain that more will lose out.

  If everything becomes “in line with revenue passengers” then why bother with a loyalty scheme at all ?

  • BJ says:

    12 Feb12 February 09:25

    Queues at check-in are longer, fast track security is slower, lounges are busier and dirtier, ptiotity boarding is a shambles, seats are blocked from paying passengers etc all because through number of elites has hotten out of control. I’ve been flying over 40 years, I know what I see and I believe the main cause has been increasing numbers of elites.

    • Paul says:

      12 Feb12 February 10:51

      This is nonsense. Over 40 years more people are flying, BA have introduced more premium seats but have then refused to invest in the infrastructure to support those seats. They set the scheme rules, they managed and controlled. The set the benefits, they set the expectations. Consequently customers bought into the “loyalty scheme”
      Do they have the right to change it. Of course they do but the changes and the manner they were communicated was disingenuous at best. Do I have the right to be angry about that, damn right I do! Now, having been hoist by their own inaction, they plan a cull but then dress it up as something I wanted and campaigned for.

      • Belfast Boy says:

        12 Feb12 February 11:44

        Tough

      • JDB says:

        12 Feb12 February 11:52

        It’s not a loyalty scheme but a frequent flyer or rewards programme. BA has sensibly and predictably upped the ante to those extracting too many benefits relative to their value to the airline.

        You need to spend much more than today’s cost of BA gold to get to top status in many types of rewards schemes. You even now need to spend £15k to get a companion voucher or £20k for the Barclays voucher on the free card!

        If you were looking for loyalty, you should have got a labrador.

        • Scott says:

          12 Feb12 February 12:29

          This makes the assumption that a large percentage of those getting gold etc. then fly multiple flights in on cheap tickets, eat and drink ££££ worth of stuff etc.
          You may find a lot of GCHs might not have that much further disposable income to over utilise the benefits.

        • BJ says:

          12 Feb12 February 12:56

          😀

          Based on the comments on these status articles it should be an emotional support Lab too.

      • BJ says:

        12 Feb12 February 12:51

        @Paul I might be wrong but I doubt that BA of 2024 has a significantly different fleet size, number of routes or number of passengers compared to those at the time of its creation in 1974. This is despite taking over British Caledonian, Dan Air, NMI and BMED if that was a different company too. You can research and report back if you wish, I’m happy to be corrected.

    • Giboo says:

      13 Feb13 February 07:04

      Ok boomer.

      Ever considered there are more people on the planet?

      More cars on the road etc.

  • BJ says:

    12 Feb12 February 09:30

    IMO loyalty scheme would be better focused on redeemable miles not TP. Redeemable miles could easily be used to buy what status gives you if you choose.

• Barrel for Scraping says:

  12 Feb12 February 08:38

  If BA had hoped nobody would notice then why did they give all the travel blogs advance notice of the announcement so that you had your articles ready to go exactly on the time of the official announcement? If they wanted nobody to notice surely they would have not told anyone in advance and left them scrambling to put something together?

  • Rob says:

    12 Feb12 February 08:38

    We got 2 hours notice, on 30th December.

    • Barrel for Scraping says:

      12 Feb12 February 08:52

      Yikes! Well done on the quick turnaround then

• BJ says:

  12 Feb12 February 08:57

  No, not those in themselves but some roll-back at BA and in the wider industry including AG/KLM and QR show that a critical mass of data be it hard stuff like booking data or soft stuff like publicity data can reach a critical mass resulting in change.

  I am aware of IAG but I sometimes jyst use for BA and IB collectively.

  • BJ says:

    12 Feb12 February 08:59

    That was @BA Flyer IHG Stayet

  • G says:

    12 Feb12 February 08:59

    Lets face it, IAG are BA and Iberia. Aer Lingus, Vueling and Level pale by comparison.

  • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

    12 Feb12 February 12:18

    “I am aware of IAG but I sometimes jyst use for BA and IB collectively.”

    Well don’t.

    They aren’t interchangeable! IAG is more than just BA and IB. As well as the other airliens there is also IAGCArgo and IAGLoyalty.

    Also IAG gives it’s subsidiaries considerable leeway in how they operate.

    • BJ says:

      12 Feb12 February 13:00

      Take it up with @Lou…

      I’ll try to get iy right but I think mist understabd what you’re saying regardless.

• Lou says:

  12 Feb12 February 09:12

  Out of interest, does BA care if everybody disappears to IB? Those same people are going to use BA flights if they’re next door to Heathrow

  • yonasl says:

    12 Feb12 February 09:22

    They do if the whole plan of the new £7,500/£20,000 thresholds were to attract more business to BA specifically. If I can get to silver flying everyone BUT BA by god I will do that (and then make sure I use it when flying BA in economy with all the added perks hehehe).

    • Willmo says:

      12 Feb12 February 09:27

      I don’t think the average flyer will know enough / care enough to switch to IB in big numbers.
      Some will switch, but not enough.

      It’s a bit like the inconvenience of taking one of those cheap Aer Lingus flights out of Dublin.
      An inconvenience that some price-sensitive, highly aware people will take – but not enough of those people exist to cannibalise revenues in a meaningful way.

    • Lou says:

      12 Feb12 February 09:29

      If I understand correctly. It costs BA regardless if a BAEC Silver or IB equivalent uses the perks on a BA flight. Maybe there are other savings to be had, such as in the call centre etc. if everybody clears off to another OW loyalty programme

    • Paul says:

      12 Feb12 February 10:55

      Can we please stop using these spurious figures of £7,500 and £20,000. It almost as bad as people quoting prices ex VAT but a great deal more complex to calculate. It will take a great deal more than £7,500 pr £20,000 to obtain a silver or gold card and no one can actually tell just how much because the programme has become so complex. Unless taxes and fees are a fixed amount on each ticket then it is impossible to say for certain exactly what you spend will need to be to achieve status. Moreover, for the leisure market you can multiply those amounts by 2 unless you holiday alone!

      • JDB says:

        12 Feb12 February 11:07

        It’s not complex to calculate! The breakdown is clearly set out when you book. If you want to make a rough calculation when travelling in any class above economy from the UK the big number to deduct is APD and if from LHR another £50 for long haul PSC.

        • yonasl says:

          12 Feb12 February 12:00

          Unless you are being sarcastic your message perfectly illustrates how complicated it has become.

        • BA Flyer IHG Stayer says:

          12 Feb12 February 12:21

          @yonasl

          It’s the same system they use to calculate how many avios you earn (without the complexity of status multipliers)

          If you can’t be bothered to spend a few seconds looking at the fare breakdown and adding 2 numbers together then that’s your fault.

      • Larry says:

        12 Feb12 February 11:28

        holidays earn TPs on the total amount, so if you book everything as a BAH then those two figures are indeed accurate

      • Zain says:

        12 Feb12 February 11:41

        You actually don’t need to spend £20k plus taxes, if you know where to look! BA silver and gold can be had for a lot cheaper.
        There are dozens of blogs and websites that list detailed examples step by step so I’m not sure why people consider BAs estimates as gospel.

• HSR1234 says:

  12 Feb12 February 09:34

  Any thoughts on whether they will change the redemption rate. I had been contemplating booking a trip to Costa Rica. I will kick myself if the cost goes up, I might book this morning and probably cancel tomorrow (for free within 24 hours?) if there is no change to the redemption rates announced.

  • Rob says:

    12 Feb12 February 09:43

    It won’t change overnight even if they do.

• BJ says:

  12 Feb12 February 09:37

  My guess is BA, IAG just want to make status harder to get so they can then raise more money by selling it near the year end. Remember harmonisation of the status year? While I’d love them to reduce elites by 50% I don’t believe that’s their goal, raising money is much more likely it.

  • Rob says:

    12 Feb12 February 09:42

    I think lounge access will be buyable via the new BA app, when launched, for £50 or so. Whether they let you buy fast track etc too is a different question. There will also be tight restrictions on cabin baggage etc, because the IT will be there to handle it.

    The £700m investment in the new app is designed to generate a strong annual return on ancillary revenue.

    • BJ says:

      12 Feb12 February 09:47

      So what about selling status Rob, do you see them doing that in a big way or not?

      • Rob says:

        12 Feb12 February 09:54

        No value in selling status unless you do an easyJet Plus type package but you can sell all the bits of status.

        I am expecting easyJet to come out with an easyJet Plus match for BA elites early next year – I think this would worry BA more than, say, Virgin or Flying Blue running matches.

        • BJ says:

          12 Feb12 February 10:06

          So it essentially boils down to the same thing – reduce the number of elites now to turbo charge the sale of the various bits and pieces once the app comes online. Interesting on EasyJet Plus, yes I could see them more worried about that.

        • BBbetter says:

          12 Feb12 February 10:12

          @BJ, that was apparent from day 1 when they announced it. No surprises there.
          The surprise was in the thresholds set for retaining status.
          Typical British public reaction though – how dare a private company can start charging me for what I was entitled to in the past?

        • BJ says:

          12 Feb12 February 10:38

          @BBbrtter, why should they be surprised though, they’re never surprised by redeemable miles devaluation but just as outraged? I can still see them sell status too, why have coffee with cream or sugar when you can have both.

        • ChrisBCN says:

          12 Feb12 February 11:44

          Well, Iberia do sell status already of course – pay for their credit card and you get Plata (equivalent to Bronze). A little limited, but it works.

    • CJD says:

      12 Feb12 February 10:26

      Isn’t fast track usually buyable directly from the airport anyway?

      I get access to fast track at GLA through paying for airport parking.

      • Rob says:

        12 Feb12 February 12:45

        Yes, you’re right, I forgot Heathrow had reinstated fast track. However, if it was integrated into the BA app then sales would multiply massively.

    • JDB says:

      12 Feb12 February 10:34

      Restrictions or charges for excessive hand luggage cannot come soon enough! The volume of bags some people bring and the delays that creates for security and boarding is out of hand.

      • BJ says:

        12 Feb12 February 10:47

        I always travel HBO but always ensure my back complies with with and dimensions as U don’t want to have to check it. My small bag always fits under seat in short-haul.and I never take two larger bags even when J tickets allow. My pet hate is people sitting further back on short-haul entering the aircraft and putting their bags above the first 10 rows of seats.

        • JDB says:

          12 Feb12 February 11:12

          @BJ – the problem is people pushing their luck with ‘small’ bags becoming large backpacks on top of a large wheelie bag. They often bash people as they go down the aisle on short haul flights. There are just too many of these people for it to be tolerated given the cost/burden it imposes.

          There’s an understandable reluctance of BA staff to get into altercations about this – I have seen passengers get very aggressive about threatened confiscation.

        • BJ says:

          12 Feb12 February 13:10

          If LCC can enforce the rules then BA and all the others should too.

    • Dubious says:

      12 Feb12 February 14:54

      That sounds like they might eventually take a leaf out of Qatar’s book and unbundle lounge access on some Business Class (era, ‘Club’) fares. Although on shorthaul that would loose a key part of the differentiator over Economy.

• David S says:

  12 Feb12 February 10:26

  Two thoughts – what’s the point of being tight and charging for cabin baggage when they are fitting aircraft with bigger overhead bins.
  Apologies if it has been asked before but if flying a redemption booking long haul in J, do we in future earn Avios on the non BA component of the cash supplement?
  And how can it cost BA so much to build an App unless McKinsey are helping. All the Airlines I flew in Asia recently had brilliant Apps and I’m sure they didn’t spend anything like that much cash.

  • JDB says:

    12 Feb12 February 10:38

    The problem for BA re IT/apps, like the banks, is all the legacy systems they have mainly resulting from takeovers. They still have bits of BCal, BMI and even Dan Air. Probably some other bits. You then have BABS being linked to Amadeus of which BA wasn’t quite a founder member but even those that were, such as Iberia don’t have brilliant IT. Amadeus has not fared well vs Sabre. European legacy carriers have a great many issues and unavoidable high costs not faced by Asian or ME carriers, or even US ones.

    • Mark says:

      12 Feb12 February 11:16

      On what basis do you think Amadeus has not fared as well as Sabre? Amadeus has a market value of €32bn versus $1bn for Sabre. Its share price has almost doubled over the past 10 years, whereas Sabre is down 90%. Sabre is massively levered, 32x debt/equity or 10x EBITDA. It is essentially on life support and losing share to Amadeus over time.

      • JDB says:

        12 Feb12 February 11:38

        @Mark – I’m not talking about the financial situation of either company which shouldn’t impact the customer booking experience.

        Amadeus has been good at developing B2B solutions for airlines but terrible at anything passenger facing. Most people will tell you that the web and app experience is far superior with US airlines vs any European Amadeus based airline.

        Amadeus has shown itself not to be as scaleable or adaptable as Sabre and doesn’t interface well eg with BABS. It’s very telling that if you take a tiny Sabre based airline like Aerolíneas Argentinas, its app and website offers far greater functionality to the passenger than say BA or LH. You can also observe that even a fairly newish well resourced airline like Qatar has really pretty poor un passenger friendly IT – it’s also Amadeus.

        Essentially, Sabre had a vision built with IBM which was cutting edge at the time. Amadeus and its founder airlines went in a different direction. Those decisions from 40 odd years ago are coming home to roost.

  • Rob says:

    12 Feb12 February 12:46

    BA won’t pay to retrofit existing aircraft with the bigger bins. I’ve had this discussion with them. Whilst other European airlines have done it, they prefer not to spend the money and start charging instead. The phrase Lamming (I think it was) used was ‘a commercial solution’ to the baggage issue.

    • sigma421 says:

      12 Feb12 February 13:36

      Great to see their relentless focus on premium.

    • JDB says:

      12 Feb12 February 16:40

      The advantage of charging vs spending on retrofitting, isn’t purely commercial but encouraging behavioural change by reducing volumes of hand luggage. A lot of people will be unwilling to pay extra, so will check in a bag instead. That should help speed the current ludicrously slow short haul boarding partially created by excess cabin baggage.

• Henry Young says:

  12 Feb12 February 11:24

  Has anyone found a good strategy to get their Iberia account reset from -90,000 ? The consequence is I will never fly Iberia again – ever – until they fix the consequence of their own stupidity over that promo a few years back. I got the transfer to BA done in time – idiots !!!

  • daveinitalia says:

    12 Feb12 February 11:30

    Ask them to close your account and then after it’s closed then ask them to remove your personal data. But why would a negative balance stop you flying them? You can just credit to BA

    • Mark says:

      12 Feb12 February 11:41

      Can you not just open a new account with a new email?

  • Zain says:

    12 Feb12 February 11:50

    Why have you kept a dormant Iberia account active for the past 8+ years?

    • JDB says:

      12 Feb12 February 11:56

      Yes! The above strategy should have been implemented immediately upon transferring the 90k out!

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