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Forums Payment cards American Express American Express Business Platinum and HMRC

  • stokesy43 3 posts

    Hi,

    I’m thinking of signing up for the American Express Business Platinum car to get the 40k bonus but I have a few questions first.

    1) I was considering paying my corporation tax bill with the card. Does HMRC accept Amex Cards?
    2) The fee for using my Capital-On-Tap card would be about £210 would this be the same for Amex?
    3) Does this represent a good value for money. i.e. if the card is £650 + £210 for 40k points.

    Yes I get some value from the benefits but not convinced its worth it.

    Cheers
    Stokesy

    Peter K 547 posts

    1. No
    2. See answer to 1
    3. Depends what you value 40k points at. Most would value at about £400 for 1p per avios.

    trader363 114 posts

    Agreed with Peter – especially on point 3. I definitely wouldn’t advise spending more than £800 for 40k points. If you value the Dell Credit (i.e were going to spend £150 at Dell anyway) then I would factor that into your calculation. Also the referral bonus is frequently 35k points per referral, so take that into account too.

    Where I do see this working is:

    1. £650 Fee (ignore the £210 – don’t pay that just to pay off your corporation tax as it’s not worth it).
    2. Offset by £150 Dell Credit
    3. 90k Points from referrals
    4. 40k Bonus

    You are then “paying” £500 for 130k points, which I value at £1,300.

    To add, you have access to lounges, travel insurance etc so this could save you more which I see as offsetting the annual fee.

    Rob
    HfP Staff
    2,174 posts

    Remember that Bus Platinum will still do pro-rata refunds after October, as its not a credit card ….

    trader363 114 posts

    Oh wow, didn’t realise that, thanks

    Rob, do you think they will expand the “no pro-rata refunds” policy to Business cards in the future?

    stokesy43 3 posts

    Agreed with Peter – especially on point 3. I definitely wouldn’t advise spending more than £800 for 40k points. If you value the Dell Credit (i.e were going to spend £150 at Dell anyway) then I would factor that into your calculation. Also the referral bonus is frequently 35k points per referral, so take that into account too.

    Where I do see this working is:

    1. £650 Fee (ignore the £210 – don’t pay that just to pay off your corporation tax as it’s not worth it).
    2. Offset by £150 Dell Credit
    3. 90k Points from referrals
    4. 40k Bonus

    You are then “paying” £500 for 130k points, which I value at £1,300.

    To add, you have access to lounges, travel insurance etc so this could save you more which I see as offsetting the annual fee.

    Thanks for the response, I guess if they don’t accept it then its all a bit of moot point. But for the sake of clarity a couple of follow ups.

    1) The only business expenses I have are Corp Tax and VAT so the only way of me getting the bonus would be to pay those.
    2) Where do the referrals come from? I’m only a service company so I don’t have any employees just me and the wife.
    3) Did I read somewhere as well that if you spend £10k in a month the points earned are doubled so effectively I would earn ~60k points (40k bonus + 10k spend + bonus 10k for monthly spend)

    trader363 114 posts

    1) Why only business expenses? You can put personal expenses on there – I’ve never used mine for business expenses

    2) Just asking friends and family – remember, you still get the 35k points if you refer someone for ANY american express card (even the nectar one)

    3) Yes that’s correct!

    🙂

    JDB 4,181 posts

    1) Why only business expenses? You can put personal expenses on there – I’ve never used mine for business expenses

    2) Just asking friends and family – remember, you still get the 35k points if you refer someone for ANY american express card (even the nectar one)

    3) Yes that’s correct!

    🙂

    Maybe others won’t be as lucky as you, value their Amex relationship and/or don’t feel comfortable breaching the clear term: “you must not use the card for personal transactions.”

    trader363 114 posts

    The fact that Amex have applied offers with the below retailers to my card (hencing incentivizing spending at these retailers via the Business card), shows that they do not care whether it’s a personal or business expense.

    Heart Magazines – Country Life & Good Living
    Hussle Gyms
    Fanatics Sportswear
    Stitch Fix
    Regent Seven Seas Cruises …

    JDB 4,181 posts

    The fact that Amex have applied offers with the below retailers to my card (hencing incentivizing spending at these retailers via the Business card), shows that they do not care whether it’s a personal or business expense.

    Heart Magazines – Country Life & Good Living
    Hussle Gyms
    Fanatics Sportswear
    Stitch Fix
    Regent Seven Seas Cruises …

    Oh yes, of course that entitles everyone to breach the terms!

    There are also actually reasons why all the above could constitute business spending. A previously cited example of Ann Summers was perhaps a better one. Retailers don’t want to pay the higher fees and Amex is supposed to monitor the proper issuance and use of business cards (ask CoT about this) but as with many things is conveniently lax vs other card providers.

    TooPoorToBeHere 259 posts

    To me, the value of it depends on how you value the points/Avios, and what else you might do with the money you spend on the annual fee inside the company.

    If you’d otherwise dividend the money to yourself and you’re an additional rate taxpayer then you’re paying 20% corporation tax and then 39% income tax on it, so you might be inclined to buy any old shit that’s deductible to avoid that. If you get good Avios redemptions (for example you don’t mind where you go and you don’t travel during school holidays) this is worth it.

    If you’d otherwise pay the money to a non-earning partner tax-free and you can’t redeem Avios for flights then it’s unlikely to be worth the hassle.

    I second that Amex aren’t going to care, or know, whether the transactions are business or not. My Ltd’s Amex doesn’t appear in its books, haven’t deducted the fee, never been touched by a business transaction…same for the Tide accounts that got opened + immediately closed to claim the £100 SUBs in the past.

    TGLoyalty 385 posts

    Remember points and personal cashback are outside the scope of tax. However, business cards AREN’T you must declare cashback etc as income which is therefore taxable. So you business Amex offers are worth less than if they were the same offer on a personal credit card.

    Obviously if you run a loss making business this makes much less difference unless you intend to make a future profit (hopefully you do)

    memesweeper 1,184 posts

    Remember points and personal cashback are outside the scope of tax. However, business cards AREN’T you must declare cashback etc as income which is therefore taxable.

    I always took the view the cashback was company money. Logged it as a negative bank charge on the accounts. Card was paid off with company funds, annual fee from company funds, MRs/Avios were mine, however.

    I now have a “personal” business card. I dont run it through the books, pocket the cashback as well as the MRs/Avios, pay the annual fee myself.

    I dont think HMRC or Amex will care provided you don’t mix and match these approaches.

    TGLoyalty 385 posts

    Believe me in a tax investigation they do ask who card holders are for a card used extensively to pay invoices and expenses.

    Will they care you are using a personal card? No

    Will they care you’re using a business card but not declaring any of the costs/income? depends if it’s worthy of caring about.

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