Amex decided to cancel all my cards

[Barraclough]

SteveJ wrote:

Ash wrote:

Paypal with Amex is a red flag?

PayPal friends and family with Amex is a red flag

I had suggested paying individuals by PayPal is a red flag but of course you are right and it is paying family and friends which is the red flag.

[Alex V]

Barraclough wrote:

Make monthly repayments from another credit card.

I actually had a balance transfer from another credit card once. It was a couple of months ago, one payment which I did for my own accounting purposes and for which I paid transfer fee. Didn’t realise amex might look bad at that.
But if that was the reason, why would they close my wife’s card at the same time?
On Monday I’m going to file a complaint with FOS, maybe can get some details from them.

[Thegasman]

You won’t get anywhere with an FOS complaint. What they have done is completely legitimate legally/per T&C’s & they don’t have to explain themselves.

Firstly I would check credit report at at least 2 agencies (Experian & another) to make sure there’s no issues there.

I would then write to Amex stating you value your relationship with them & would like to keep cards. Give an explanation for any possible reasons like high spend vs income due to a large one off business expense but you undertake not to make business transactions in future on your personal cards.

It’s not prohibited to pay for work expenses but they don’t like large amounts as with interchange fee cap they will actually lose money on them.

I’d also ask if they don’t rescind then would they consider an application after a year.

[JDB]

Alex V wrote:

On Monday I’m going to file a complaint with FOS, maybe can get some details from them.

You can’t go to the FOS until you have made a formal complaint to Amex and given them up to 8 weeks to give a final decision. As Amex has given you two months notice, the closure is under Consumer Credit Act 1974 S98A(3) so the law does not require the firm to provide any reasons for closure and the FOS cannot order the firm to provide reasons, nor will any court, unless say you were alleging discrimination under a protected characteristic. Firms don’t provide reasons to avoid legal complications, so as not to enter some endless argument with the customer and so as not to give away their internal criteria for account closures that others might then attempt to use to circumvent them.

If you are going to complain, you need to decide what your complaint is about. Challenging the closure itself is pointless as it is an absolute right. If that is your concern you would be better simply to ask them to reconsider their decision, albeit it’s quite unlikely they will reverse it. In respect of not getting your 241 voucher although you were only £100 away so could easily have got that in the two months notice period, you could complain about that – it’s the same issue that people are complaining about re Creation not giving voucher/points in the notice period.

[Alex V]

Thegasman wrote:

You won’t get anywhere with an FOS complaint.

I’m not sure that’s true. Amex advertised BAPP with two main features: welcome bonus and a 2-4-1 voucher. I paid an annual fee expecting to get both these features. And when I have less than 1% left to spend (£98) to get the voucher, Amex abruptly closes my card. To me this looks like amex is just trying to avoid honouring their own rules, so I hope FOS will look into this case in substance. And if I did anything wrong, surely amex will disclose it to FOS.

[Alex V]

JDB wrote:

In respect of not getting your 241 voucher although you were only £100 away so could easily have got that in the two months notice period, you could complain about that

Yep, that’s exactly what I’m going to complain about. And I agree that I need to complain to amex first, that’s what I will actually do on Monday, and will go to FOS once I receive a (no)response from amex.

[Lady London]

I’m sorry but I think it’s completely ridiculous to think Amex would close accounts because of run of the mill business expenses that are claimed from one’s employer and reimbursed by the employer.

My travel, entertainment and sometimes even equipment costs reimbursed by employers have always been huge compared to my income on many occasions. Some employers offered corporate credit cards. But for decades now most of them don’t. In fact at times I’ve resented my employer using me as a source of credit.

Credit cards and charge cards know this perfectly well and this sort of travel and entertainment expense has been a lot of their business. Ditto airlines where most corporate travel agents insist on having the employee’s own card on file – and these days unless very senior that’s often the employee’s own card not a corporate one – the corporate travel agent bills the employee’s card and it’s left to the employee to claim that off the employer. Often with a delayed or fixed expense claim submission and rebilling cycle.

The alternative where it still exists is to take the corporate card. But the issue with that is that these days the employee is still expected to settle the bill and claim reimbursement and to make things worse is still jointly liable if the employer defaults. So still as badly off.

A long time ago corporate cards were paid by the employer directly to the card. Prior to that some firms gave cash advances for expenses. But those practices are long gone.

I simply do not believe any credit or charge card co is going to try to kill employees who are clearly doing loads of T&E expenses and paying their bill each month as it’s really obvious that person is in good solid employment and being reimbursed. If cards start closing for this then the card market will become 10-20% of what it is now.

[JDB]

@Alex V one additional thing you mentioned is that Amex also closed your wife’s account – they do seem to use their proprietary data to consider things on a household basis so, according to reports this often happens which unfortunately makes the closure worse. It can work to one’s advantage for children who seem to be able to open cards with decent limits for which they wouldn’t otherwise obviously be eligible.

[Lady London]

**********Another reply lost after captcha*************** Getting very tired of this.

[dougzz99]

@Barraclough.

Do you have any evidence to support your entirely fictional list of Don’t and probably Don’t?

[NunoBettencourtsPinky]

I find this all extraordinary. Amex give you a credit limit and a card that can be used to transact with merchants/entities who accept their cards (including PayPal). Assuming you’re making transactions within the credit limit and paying it back regularly, I fail to see how any “activity” within those boundaries could be regarded as reason enough to close an account.

[SteveJ]

dougzz99 wrote:

@Barraclough.

Do you have any evidence to support your entirely fictional list of Don’t and probably Don’t?

“Evidence”? Really? They’re just trying to build a list of things to be mindful of. It’s meant to be helpful.

All the items on the don’t ever list have been regularly reported on here over time.

[Ash]

Is there cases where amex with PayPal friends and family has caused card accounts to be closed?

[CH]

Ash wrote:

Is there cases where amex with PayPal friends and family has caused card accounts to be closed?

I think there has been on here, or at least anecdotes – esp if large value transactions. There have been occasional mention of smallish amounts being tried and apparently been ok.
But think the wisdon is whilst it works (much like referring yourself), not something to be considered lightly.

[John]

Can Amex tell what you used paypal for? I haven’t Amex-paypaled money to myself for many years, but it didn’t look any different from an ebay purchase when I used to do it. (Though ebay is different now.)

Until about 2018 I frequently balance transferred from Amex to 0% cards, but it stopped being worth it with crap savings rates. Amex occasionally increased my limits after doing a balance transfer – perhaps it made them think I wanted to spend more as it looks like an earlier repayment.

I don’t see how Amex would know which Morrisons etc. transactions were for gift cards.

[dougzz99]

Ash wrote:

Is there cases where amex with PayPal friends and family has caused card accounts to be closed?

Isn’t this a problem for PayPal rather than Amex.

[Tom2]

Steven wrote:

Rui N. wrote:

@NorthernLass, Genghis did, but eventually got his cards back after an appeal.

He did post on the Creation thread this week, but also said somewhere that the forum format did not appeal to him.

Is that an actual breach of terms? Guessing not given he was successful on appeal but seems an incredibly harsh position for AMEX to take if it was just that.

There are people (not sure if this is what Genghis did) who used to go into shops with 6 different cards and spread payment across all 6. I am not sure if this breaches shop small terms but is clearly against the spirit of the offer.

[Steven]

Rui N. wrote:

Yes it is. @JDB (on the Creation thread) even pointed out today a case that reached the FOS exactly because of that. And the customer lost: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/files/267479/DRN5311667.pdf

Just read that but it’s nothing to do with referrals, this is for abusing shop small offers.

[Tom2]

Steven wrote:

Rui N. wrote:

@NorthernLass, Genghis did, but eventually got his cards back after an appeal.

He did post on the Creation thread this week, but also said somewhere that the forum format did not appeal to him.

Is that an actual breach of terms? Guessing not given he was successful on appeal but seems an incredibly harsh position for AMEX to take if it was just that.

Going into shops armed with 6 Amex cards and splitting payment across all 6 is clearly against the spirit of the offer. The most I ever do is split payment between me and my OH (not her supp card).

[Barraclough]

Alex V wrote:

Barraclough wrote:

Alex V wrote:

They blocked both cards and set them to be cancelled in two months period.
I called and asked my gold card to be cancelled immediately. The only reason I kept it open is that amex persuaded me by giving 20,000 points when I called to cancel. And I felt bad to cancel after that gesture, but now see no reason to pay for extra two months when I can’t even use it. Residual points on the card were moved to Nectar during the close. The only downturn is that I would have extra 10k points in summer when it’s time to renew the card, as I already hit annual spending target.
With BAPP it’s much trickier, given I counted on the voucher, so not sure if I should complain to FOS. As per a similar case referenced in #306129, FOS does consider such cases, and as I haven’t abused the rules (at least I believe so), I should have better chances?

I have no reason to think I would have my two Amex cards closed but if that happened what happens to the MR points accumulated to date? I have about 70,0000 on an Amex Rewards card and 17,000, plus 10,000 to come for passing the 10k spend on a Gold card. I’m not going to panic move them out but would like to know whether there is a potential risk of losing those points earned to date.

I had under 1k points on the gold card (as I normally move everything to BA), and the lady on the phone offered to transfer them to Nectar. As I understand it was the only option for under 1k, otherwise I could move to BA or other places. So don’t worry about the points.

Alex V wrote:

Barraclough wrote:

Alex V wrote:

They blocked both cards and set them to be cancelled in two months period.
I called and asked my gold card to be cancelled immediately. The only reason I kept it open is that amex persuaded me by giving 20,000 points when I called to cancel. And I felt bad to cancel after that gesture, but now see no reason to pay for extra two months when I can’t even use it. Residual points on the card were moved to Nectar during the close. The only downturn is that I would have extra 10k points in summer when it’s time to renew the card, as I already hit annual spending target.
With BAPP it’s much trickier, given I counted on the voucher, so not sure if I should complain to FOS. As per a similar case referenced in #306129, FOS does consider such cases, and as I haven’t abused the rules (at least I believe so), I should have better chances?

I have no reason to think I would have my two Amex cards closed but if that happened what happens to the MR points accumulated to date? I have about 70,0000 on an Amex Rewards card and 17,000, plus 10,000 to come for passing the 10k spend on a Gold card. I’m not going to panic move them out but would like to know whether there is a potential risk of losing those points earned to date.

I had under 1k points on the gold card (as I normally move everything to BA), and the lady on the phone offered to transfer them to Nectar. As I understand it was the only option for under 1k, otherwise I could move to BA or other places. So don’t worry about the points.

That’s a relief! Thanks.

[Alex V]

Andrew J wrote:

SteveJ wrote:

Andrew J wrote:

So they closed your BAPP but not your Gold and then you called to cancel your Gold anyway?

OP said they notified him they’d be closing both in 2 months and blocked any usage.

Seemed odd to call to close the account then, that’s why I was a little confused about what actually happened. (As an aside, why do you assume Alex V is male?)

Accidentally I am a male, so maybe it was an educated guess?
I called to cancel my gold card to get annual fee reimbursed pro-rata. If I hadn’t called, I would have been charged for 2 extra months while I couldn’t use the card anyway. Need to do the same with BAPP, just waiting for pending transactions to go through.

[Barraclough]

Alex V wrote:

Barraclough wrote:

Make monthly repayments from another credit card.

I actually had a balance transfer from another credit card once. It was a couple of months ago, one payment which I did for my own accounting purposes and for which I paid transfer fee. Didn’t realise amex might look bad at that.
But if that was the reason, why would they close my wife’s card at the same time?
On Monday I’m going to file a complaint with FOS, maybe can get some details from them.

Others will know more than me but it does seem strange for your wife’s card to be closed at the same time as yours suggesting I suppose that the reason for closure has something to do with an interaction between your cards. I can’t remember if you have referred your wife for a new card to obtain a bonus (or vice versa) but even if you did that is part of the HfP recommended route to maximise Amex points so I don’t think it can be that –
see https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/01/22/how-a-couple-can-earn-186875-avios-from-american-express/

Best of luck sorting it out and do keep HfP in the picture if you appeal or go via FOS.

[Barraclough]

dougzz99 wrote:

@Barraclough.

Do you have any evidence to support your entirely fictional list of Don’t and probably Don’t?

SteveJ wrote:

dougzz99 wrote:

@Barraclough.

Do you have any evidence to support your entirely fictional list of Don’t and probably Don’t?

“Evidence”? Really? They’re just trying to build a list of things to be mindful of. It’s meant to be helpful.

All the items on the don’t ever list have been regularly reported on here over time.

Thanks Steve, that is exactly what I had in mind!

[Rui N.]

Steven wrote:

Just read that but it’s nothing to do with referrals, this is for abusing shop small offers.

No one said this was about referrals. Where on Earth did you get that idea from?! The conversation that post was a part of was clearly about offers. EdIT: just went back to page 1 and you were even part of that conversation, which makes this post even stranger.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[Steven]

Rui N. wrote:

Steven wrote:

Just read that but it’s nothing to do with referrals, this is for abusing shop small offers.

No one said this was about referrals. Where on Earth did you get that idea from?! The conversation that post was a part of was clearly about offers. EdIT: just went back to page 1 and you were even part of that conversation, which makes this post even stranger.

Rob had queried about the referral of spouses not long before.

I had thought when the reference to Genghis getting shut down was for the referral of a spouse but I now see it seemed to be for the shop small offer.