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Currently sat waiting in LHR T5 B lounge with a 10hr connection after BA cancelled the LHR to NCL leg of our NAS to NCL return flight (Avios redemption booking).
The cancellation notification email came after having checked in for both legs of the NAS to NCL journey and around 8hrs before the first NAS to LHR leg was scheduled to depart. We were not automatically rebooked onto an alternative flight so we made a frantic call to BA from the Bahamas where we were able to rebook onto the next available but (much) later LHR to NCL flight.
Our cancelled flight was due to arrive in NCL at 15:45 and the next earliest available flight we were able to rebook onto is scheduled to arrive around 6 hrs later at 22:00. This is also currently showings as being delayed by a further 30 minutes!
I am not currently able to determine the reason for the cancellation, but given that other flights are operating it must not be weather related. If anyone else is able to determine why flight BA1334 on 13 April was cancelled I’d be grateful if you could let me know.
Am I correct that under these circumstances (delayed by more than 4hrs for a journey greater than 3,500km having been rebooked onto the next available connecting flight) we are entitled to claim €600 Euro per passenger in compensation under EC Regulation No 261/2004?
From all the reading/research I have done, this qualifies for compensation on condition that the cancelation (causing the delay) was the fault of British Airways.
Does anyone know (or know how I can find out) why flight BA1334 to Newcastle on 13 Apr 2023 was cancelled?
The inbound for that BA1334 arrived from DUB at 12.18 PM, so if they cancelled it that early I’d definitely submit that claim.
Thanks @davefl, I have already submitted the compensation claim.
Please could you point me to where you found the information about the inbound flight for BA1334 on 13 Apr 2023? I would like to gather some screenshots just in case BA challenges this.
I used the flightaware app. Seach on the flight number, pick your day and then hit the where is my inbound flight button
I am not currently able to determine the reason for the cancellation, but given that other flights are operating it must not be weather related. If anyone else is able to determine why flight BA1334 on 13 April was cancelled I’d be grateful if you could let me know.
Just because other flights were operating you can’t assume the issues with your flight wasn’t weather related.
If BA were told to reduce their flight numbers by ATC because of the weather and they chose to cancel yours because of that then it still dosen’t qualify for compensation. That other planes flew is neither here nor there.
Thanks again @davefl for the flightaware pointer.
@BA Flyer IHG Stayer, I understand the risks associated with making assumptions on limited information. The difficulty I’m having at the moment is gathering sufficient information so that I can make a more informed ‘guess’ at the most likely cause of the cancelation. This is important to me given that the HFP Wiki in this sub-forum states ‘It is not unknown for airlines to issue untruthful statements about why a certain flight was delayed‘.
If Heathrow ATC had asked carriers to reduce flight numbers that day, would that be publicly available information?… given the ‘get out’ this provides the carriers with I would have expected them to want to make this clear in their cancellation emails.
You don’t need to know the reason to submit a claim. You only need to know that if they decline the claim and you wish to take it to arbitration or MCOL.
I claimed for late arrival from a flight from hell on Ryanair last Dec from BCN to ACE where we flew over the runway (pulled out at 1000 ft) and ended up flying on to Gran Canaria, refueled and flew back to ACE landing around 4 hours late. I swear the captain said lack of fuel prevented a second attempt at ACE but can’t prove that, and if that was the real reason then it’s Ryanair’s fault for under fuelling.
Whatever the reason that went on the report, they paid up without a fuss. The hardest part was getting their claim form to recognise my bank details.
Btw, you can use Bott&Co’s online claim form, put some bogus details in that for your name and email and it’ll tell you if you have a valid claim or not.
Put 13/4 in and the reason “I’m not sure” and it says you qualify. Put in the 12/4 which was ontime and it says you don’t. So looks like you’re on a safe bet and they have access to the official database
@timmyg airlines often try to wriggle out of paying compensation hiding behind weather, ATC etc. but the onus is on the airline to prove it, but they won’t generally provide the passenger with evidence (and it’s almost impossible for the passenger to get anything of probative value) but they will ultimately need to provide it to CEDR or in a defence to an MCOL claim. As correctly stated above, the information you have thus far doesn’t really prove anything either way, so if BA denies the claim citing ‘extraordinary circumstances’ but without evidencing it, you should respond to such denial requesting evidence within 14 days which they probably won’t provide. Then go to CEDR not MCOL in case they do ultimately prove their case which would cause you to lose the application fee – £70 for a claim for £520.
So it happened. Received the following in an email from BA today:
‘Your claim’s been refused because BA1334 on 13 April 2023 was cancelled because of forecast of strong winds at London which resulted in air traffic control restrictions.
On the day you were due to travel, Air Traffic Control restricted operations out of a block of air space your aircraft needed to travel through. I’m afraid this was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.‘
Is there any way to independently verify if BA is being truthful? If I ask BA for evidence of this, are they obliged to provide it?
…I keep being drawn back to the following statement in this threads Wiki:
‘It is not unknown for airlines to issue untruthful statements about why a certain flight was delayed.‘
13th April was when Storm Noa hit – easily discovered via a google search
By the way I checked this boards fixed posts
https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/wiki-your-guide-to-cancelled-flights-baggage-delay/
and these words do not appear in it
‘It is not unknown for airlines to issue untruthful statements about why a certain flight was delayed.
Just because a couple of posters post that sort of stuff in threads does not mean it’s true.
@BA Flyer IHG Stayer – Storm Noa hit the day before on Wednesday 12th. Easily discovered via a google search. The weather was calm at Heathrow on Thursday 13th. I should know, I was there having landed smoothly on a flight from NAS about 3hrs before the cancelled flight. Not inferring anything from that. Just stating a fact.
And a simple ‘CTRL F’ will find that statement in : https://www.headforpoints.com/2022/07/10/what-rights-do-you-have-if-your-flight-has-been-cancelled/
The above aside, I appreciate all contributions to this thread, even the unhelpful ones.
@timmyg the onus is on BA to prove ‘extraordinary circumstances’ existed if they choose to cite them in order to get out of paying compensation. However, it’s unlikely they will provide evidence to you so your only option if you think they are trying it on is to go to CEDR to whom they will have to provide evidence in order to win. Don’t go to MCOL in this situation because if they provide evidence, you’ll lose the case and your application fee.
Don’t rely on the fact that Storm Noa was on the Wednesday and the fact you landed smoothly from Nassau the day after the storm is proof of nothing. The storm was much worse than anticipated and caused significant ATC restrictions, go arounds and then diversions so many aircraft and crews were displaced such that the schedule was affected for several days and EC261 allows for this sort of disruption on previous rotations. I have no idea whether your flight was in fact affected by this, but is is quite possible.
Thanks @JDB
I do understand that flight and weather data and my experiences and observations at Heathrow that day aren’t proof of anything. I also completely accept that there may have continued to be ATC restrictions in place.
The issue is that I have just gradually lost trust in BA since COVID hit due to several other bad experiences with them (numerous cancelled flights and more than one instance of delayed baggage, some of which resulted in compensation, others that didn’t). So when another flight gets cancelled by BA for ‘weather related reasons’ on what was a calm day, I am naturally suspicious. I am just disappointed that there appears to be no way to independently verify this.
That said, I’m not sure I have the energy to pursue this further through CEDR. I may however try my luck at asking for a gesture of goodwill (Avios?) for the distress we faced on our last day of holiday due to not being automatically rebooked onto the next available connecting flight. We simply got lucky as I happened to be checking my phone as the cancelation email arrived and was therefore able to quickly call and take the last two seats that were available on the day we landed in LHR.
If you don’t have the energy to persue it yourself and I understand how incredibly stressful CEDR/MCOL can be, how about giving it to one of the ambulance chasers like Bott a chance. I did a dummy run on their site for your flight and they think you’re eligible. At least you’ll get something with almost zero effort and no win no fee.
(never used them personally but their checker seems to have validity)
@timmyg the idea of having some central list of cancellation reasons has been mooted in the EU and UK but it’s not really very practical as it still requires self reporting, so doesn’t really improve on the current situation. The CAA does occasionally publish lists of “pre tactical cancellations” but unfortunately it’s a bit ad hoc. I wouldn’t be worried about going to CEDR – it’s simple and informal and the worse case scenario is losing £25 which would be highly unusual in any event, and extremely unlikely in your case as it’s only being brought in the face of BA’s refusal to provide evidence. MCOL is a whole different ball game that wouldn’t be recommended in your particular case.
If you did choose one of the firms that pursue these issues in exchange for a % of your compensation, I wouldn’t use Bott & Co. They are very fair weather operators, only look after themselves and their ‘checker’ is a nonsense. AirHelp is a consumer advocate that has brought a lot of cases to the ECJ to the benefit of us all.
I’m in the middle of a £1000 CEDR claim for a late arriving BA flight from Miami back in October caused by a delay of the inbound flight.
BA are vigorously defunding the claim at every juncture and provided a lot of similar “evidence” regarding the inbound flight. Whist a long slow process up to now, it’s been pretty easy so wouldn’t recommend using a claim firm.
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