BA flight HND-LHR cancelled New flight NRT-HKG then HKG-LHR

[ad4mlon]

Hi all looking for help, just had a cancellation email from BA for HND to LHR direct, booked with comp vou and avios. They’ve put us 36hours later with a connection via HKG with a very tight 1hr connection time. In CW with BA and CW with both legs of rebooked flight, called helpline but they’re saying there’s nothing direct on original day and the next day either. What are my options here, if I accept the new booking am I forfeiting any right to compensation from BA outside of the normal €600 each etc. if I were to cancel and book direct with JAL or ANA similar times the flights are close to 15k so not entirely comfortable booking and hoping BA compensate us for that 😅

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Statutory compensation will depend on the reason for the cancellation. Accepting the rebooking does not affect that.

Not sure to what “extra” compensation you think BA will offer but under duty of care they will reimburse hotels and meal costs.

As to rebooking onto JAL/ANA you need to discuss that with BA before booking and paying for anything.

If you cancel the BA flight you have zero chance of BA reimbursing you for JAL/ANA.

[JDB]

Your potential entitlement to compensation would only be if the cancellation is within 14 days of departure and you aren’t rerouted “to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival”.

BA’s rebooking guidelines are published at:

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/traveltrade/bookings-policies/policies/standard-customer-guidelines?clickref=1011lvZQqcmK&DM1_Channel=AFF&DM1_Campaign=UKI_GB_EN_PHG_ALWAYSON&DM1_Site=PHG&dclid=COrglq3rgvkCFcLOGwodp5sBDQ#schedule

BA should be able to rebook you on JAL, if there is any cash availability but is highly unlikely to rebook you with ANA even though they should. You need to check what flights, direct or connecting, are actually available on your date and try to persuade them to book those. Once you accept a rebooking that’s it, you can’t then rebook something without Avios availability.

[yonasl]

1. How you paid for the flight should not change your rights (vs. Somebody that used only cash for instance). This is the most important bit!

2. You have the right for a rebooking so ask to be put on the direct JAL flight same class regardless of Avios availability. You can also take other BA direct flights the days after of before if there is ANY availability

3. Whatever you do DONT accept the new rebooking or cancel or ask for refund

4. Compensation is only due if the flight is in the next 14 days and you arrive to LHR 4 hrs later than planed. In this case it may be the last of your worries.

5. If you are given a flight that departs later they have to pay for the extra hotel nights and food. I suppose that is also the case if you need to spend more nights somewhere else.

Good luck, and try to post what you eventually get for others to use that as reference in the future.

[Jon]

How far ahead is the original flight? That will affect whether/how much delay/cancellation compensation you can get. If more than 2 weeks, you won’t get any. Worth checking whether your travel insurance might pay you something.

BA does have to provide (or reimburse) hotel, meals and airport transfers etc for the extended stay, so unless you absolutely cannot afford to get home 36 hours later than planned, due to work commitments or whatever, the least stressful option is probably to enjoy the extra day/night of holiday at their expense. You may also strike lucky and find your re-routed flights are booked into a fare bucket that earns Avios and tier points… 😉

If you do need to get back earlier than their option, you can try insisting, but you may have a fight on your hands – best bet there is to research flights that would be acceptable to you and get you back in time, preferably with OneWorld carriers as BA is more likely to accept that, eg QR, MH, CX, AY etc, and propose some options to BA. Bit surprised tbh they can’t get you on something sooner than 36 hours – granted maybe not direct, but there surely must be plenty of connecting options that would get you home closer to your original schedule.

Strictly speaking, if there are seats available for cash (the fact you paid with Avios is irrelevant) on a direct JAL flight (or any other airline, but JAL is OneWorld at least) going at a similar time as your original, then BA is obliged to book them for you – but good luck with that 😉

Whatever you do, DO NOT cancel the tickets yourself – once you do that, BA is off the hook completely.

That aside, in case it’s helpful to know, I was told by Cathay Pacific recently that the Minimum Connection Time at Hong Kong is 50 minutes.

[John]

Compensation/rebooking aside, there is no problem connecting at HKG in your situation.

You are likely to be met as you walk off the plane and perhaps even escorted. It is quite possible there will be others on your incoming flight with tighter connections

If the inbound flight is delayed such that you will miss the connection CX may have already sorted you out by the time you arrive, although there would be no further compensation as not a UK/EU airline or departing the UK/EU, and it would complicate any claim with BA based on what hypothetically would have happened.

[SamG]

Pretty sure BA has a JV with JAL on this route so if there are seats available they’d just move you onto it. I’d call back with the specific flight number and see what they say

[ad4mlon]

Thanks for the responses so far, very helpful. I’m in Tokyo right now and the flight was for Sat 15th morning cancelled with 20hours notice urgh. So am having to scramble to get new hotels, sort out childcare arrangements etc. Spoken to 4 different agents so far, couple helpful, couple not. Trying to get back as kids Easter break ending and they’re due in school etc. wouldn’t mind ordinarily but we had a flight 2 weeks ago from BA cancelled after sitting on the tarmac for 4 hours then a night-stop at Heathrow from them and it completely messed up the first few days of the break. Skyscanner are showing me some direct JAL flights and ANA but they are persistently telling me they’re all booked and it’s this or nothing. It’s just another 5hr flight before another 15hr flight BLEH

[Alex G]

JAL has two seats in First to Paris tomorrow, with an onward BA connection to LHR. You could try asking BA to move you to that flight? It would save them about £1200 in compensation plus hotel costs.

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

So you need multiple seats? How many adults and how many kids?

Are you searching the OTA for the number of seats you need or just one as that will give different results.

It may be that BA is being shown a particular number of seats by both ANA and JAL that is fewer than you need but the OTA are seeing a different number?

And are you willing to be split up – one adult and child on one flight and the other adult and kid(s) on another – as that may help with the rebooking.

Have seen this situation before and easier to deal with 2×2 than a single party of 4 even though it may not be the ideal situation.

[SamG]

In fairness to BA I’m looking at Expertflyer and I don’t see any availability in any class on any airline on direct flights to London tomorrow. Likely the OTAs haven’t caught up yet and the booking would fail at payment stage

The only potential option that’d get you back much sooner is Air Canada via Vancouver tomorrow afternoon but for BA to put you on that they’d need to have cancelled the flight within 24hrs of departure. Per the regs you’ve got the right to be on it in my opinion but you’d likely have to buy the tickets and MCOL and I wouldn’t fancy taking a £10k punt on that!

Of course BA will cover all your extra hotel and food expenses so I’d try make the best of it. I’m sure you can find something to do in Tokyo more enriching than a day at school anyway !

[Lady London]

@ad4mlon really sorry for this inconvenience. With 4 of you including 2 children, being switched from an easy nonstop “we can relax once we get on the plane at HND as then we’re going straight home” to a longer flight via Hong Kong on a different airline, is much more stressful than just 1 or 2 of you.

The good news is that many passengers on BA cancelled Japan flights have been (illegally) refused routing on CX via Hong Kong in exactly your situation. Or, BA initially refused and they had to fight to get it.

Hong Kong transits can work with short times but if you land late and miss your connection, ground staff will reroute you and Hong Kong is one of the best airports in the world to get stuck in. Good choices in CX and other lounges if you are lounged but also other facilities.

I would however insist on pursuing a compensation claim for cancellation of the BA flight at the rate of £520 per seat for your 4 seats (it’s every seat even if any are 241 seats). I simply do not believe atc or weather delay caused this although it’s highly possible BA will try to lie but I’d keep pursuing it. As for a 20 hour ahead cancellation it’s BA rearranging their routes for commercial reasons, or mechanical, or crew etc all of which are not exceptional reasons – they don’t get BA out of compensation. ATC instructions, that might exempt them, are very unlikely to be the reason on long haul.

Good luck and please persist on a separate claim (separate from any hotel and 3-meals a day reimbursement claim for you all for any extra stay in Japan and extra travel time) for compensation.

[SamG]

According to flight stats the flight was cancelled at 11:13am local time today for an 08:50am departure tomorrow. So I think you could get the AC option (3 seats remaining so you could bring the kids back?) or anything else you can find per BA’s “rebook any other carrier” element of it’s customer guidelines. You’d likely really have to push the agent to do it though

[Lady London]

Can anyone see Expertflyer or another source that could indicate the reason for cancellation?

[SamG]

You can’t see the code anymore unfortunately. But the allocated aircraft has been sat on the ground for a few days but is now going to Pittsburgh tonight. So I’d guess either it’s still tech or they’re short of aircraft or crew. Highly likely to be a £520pp compo scenario anyway I’d say!

[JDB]

SamG wrote:

You can’t see the code anymore unfortunately. But the allocated aircraft has been sat on the ground for a few days but is now going to Pittsburgh tonight. So I’d guess either it’s still tech or they’re short of aircraft or crew. Highly likely to be a £520pp compo scenario anyway I’d say!

I think that quite a few aircraft have been in the wrong place since Wednesday owing to storm Noa which affected some outbound flights yesterday with consequential delays and cancellations for the returns.

[ad4mlon]

Alex G wrote:

JAL has two seats in First to Paris tomorrow, with an onward BA connection to LHR. You could try asking BA to move you to that flight? It would save them about £1200 in compensation plus hotel costs.

Yeah that was all I could find in the end and BA were no use there. End of easter, crazy prices and demand. Assuming they filled all the directs with other higher ranked Executive Club Members from this flight. I had a similar problem coming out to Japan, delayed on a flight to Singapore for 24hrs ruining a short layover and couldn’t reason with anyone at BA to get a different initial flight out to Japan instead as it wasn’t the contractual destination they needed to fulfil or something to that effect.

I should clarify it’s only 2 adults, childcare arrangements are for children back home with family members that need collecting! I’ll keep this thread updated with compensation claims etc. Should be a whopper, due 2 coming out, 2 going back, a load of expenses, and some flight adjustments hopefully

[Alex G]

Just found out that a volcano has erupted in Russia, causing flights over Alaska to be cancelled or diverted.

As this is the route home from TYO to LON, it will have added to the difficulties.

BA may try to claim exceptional circumstances, which could mean duty of care but no compensation.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flights-canceled-alaska-russian-volcano-eruption-ash-cloud-shiveluch/

[ad4mlon]

good to know thanks, the JAL flight half an hour later has departed and a JAL flight left 00:10 this morning going the same way. They’ll struggle with that excuse

[Skywalker]

ad4mlon wrote:

good to know thanks, the JAL flight half an hour later has departed and a JAL flight left 00:10 this morning going the same way. They’ll struggle with that excuse

Doesn’t mean that they won’t still try to use it 😀

[philco78]

Also try AY via Helsinki. BA have a agreement with AY on this route

[Lady London]

ad4mlon wrote:

Alex G wrote:

JAL has two seats in First to Paris tomorrow, with an onward BA connection to LHR. You could try asking BA to move you to that flight? It would save them about £1200 in compensation plus hotel costs.

Yeah that was all I could find in the end and BA were no use there. End of easter, crazy prices and demand. Assuming they filled all the directs with other higher ranked Executive Club Members from this flight. I had a similar problem coming out to Japan, delayed on a flight to Singapore for 24hrs ruining a short layover and couldn’t reason with anyone at BA to get a different initial flight out to Japan instead as it wasn’t the contractual destination they needed to fulfil or something to that effect.

I should clarify it’s only 2 adults, childcare arrangements are for children back home with family members that need collecting! I’ll keep this thread updated with compensation claims etc. Should be a whopper, due 2 coming out, 2 going back, a load of expenses, and some flight adjustments hopefully

Hum the contractual obligation on each leg (out or back) is from origin to final destination if it’s a connection (ie up to 23hrs 59min break between flights) and is not for any connecting stops. So in order to reroute you an airline is entitled to miss out connecting stops or substitute others, within reason if yours was a connecting journey ie onward flight with 23hrs59min or less gap. A ‘stopover’ is a stop longer than 23h59m in which case the contract is to the stopover destination then a new contractual obligation ‘from’ the stopover place.

So if you were ‘connecting’ via SIN rather than stopping over, actually they should not have refused you direct routing instead in case of irrops as their contract was from origin to destination.

If you were stopping longer in SIN than 23hrs59min then yes, their contract was to SIN. Then another contract from SIN. So actually in refusing your offer to accept a direct routing inatead, they may have given rise to a claim for 2 separate flights,instead of just 1 or none. If they wanted to be that literal about contractual obligations 🙂

[ad4mlon]

Update on this, sat on the flight from HKG to LHR now only a couple of hours from home. The JAL flight landed 30mins late into HKG and the air stewardess was very concerned so it was extremely stressful. She said there was no other flights and no CW seats on any flights the next day either. Those that said HKG were good at this were right, they were incredible, we finished the taxi and connected to bridge at 22:40 and the flight was for 23:10, first off the plane and had to run through the airport with a fella onto the skytrain, through a checkpoint, through new security check and to the gate and we were the last ones on at 23:00. Our bags definitely didn’t make it, the AirTags are still showing them at T1 in HKG but not a big deal, figured they wouldn’t make it.

Have no idea what we’re entitled to from BA from all this. At minimum we’re getting £520pp on both legs of the journey. I think I’ll have to file my own complaint to get reimbursed for this direct flight back split into an indirect and the stress, maybe avios and cash back. The outward journey was messed up but it was the same flight I’d paid for just 18 hours later in the same seats.

Are you entitled to compensation for hotels booked and not used or is it only new bookings to cover additional nights etc? For example, on our outward flight we had a hotel booked in singapore, we missed that booking and obvs paid for it, are we entitled to a reimbursement from that from BA? We booked a dayuse room for 8 hours upon arrival just to get some sleep and showers etc. I assume we’re entitled to a reimbursement for that. but will they argue that them paying for that room negates them having to pay for the other?

[ad4mlon]

Lady London wrote:

So if you were ‘connecting’ via SIN rather than stopping over, actually they should not have refused you direct routing instead in case of irrops as their contract was from origin to destination.

If you were stopping longer in SIN than 23hrs59min then yes, their contract was to SIN. Then another contract from SIN. So actually in refusing your offer to accept a direct routing inatead, they may have given rise to a claim for 2 separate flights,instead of just 1 or none. If they wanted to be that literal about contractual obligations 🙂

The first leg was a separate flight we’d organised not from BA for 36hours later. The BA leg was direct to SIN. But seeing as we were literally going to Tokyo later that day and they’d cost us the day before we were trying to connived them to adjust it and go direct to Tokyo to help us out.

[SamG]

Glad you made it !

You’re entitled to £520ea per flight, assuming BA caused the delay each time

You’re also entitled to duty of care whilst waiting- hotels, transport to/from, food (not alcohol)

You can also make a customer service complaint, suggest you do this separately

BA won’t pay for any consequential losses including your Singapore hotel arrangements etc. This is for your travel insurance.