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If BA complaints are responded by AI, it is the AI with the worst writing skills that I’ve ever seen!
AI might get a lot of stuff wrong, but they say it in proper English.Luckily, if this goes to court, the proof is on the basis of the balance of probabilities.
If you can evidence your presence at the departure and arrival airports at the relevant times, and show the plane ticket, there’s not a cat in hell’s chance an English court is going to find against you claiming you boarded the booked flight. BA legal will surely know this — but even BA legal will want to see some evidence, so my advice would be gather it now. A car park receipt from one end and a cafe receipt from the other would be easier than making DSAR requests. But if you think you need the personal data from anyone request it immediately would be my advice.
I’d love to see the passenger manifest, because if @sturgeon and companion are on it, it proves IB made a mistake, and if they’re not, it raises some questions about IB’s record keeping!
I’d love to see the passenger manifest, because if @sturgeon and companion are on it, it proves IB made a mistake, and if they’re not, it raises some questions about IB’s record keeping!
My thoughts too. Hope all is well on the trip NL
Wow – this is ballistic even by my knee-jerk reactions! 😁 Ask BA to make it good. They will, and probably throw you an Avios bone. Common sense will prevail! Manifests, boarding gate logs, CCTV will all be kept for more than 30 days (they are relevant to longer-term security). You don’t need to go all “Sherlock Holmes” to confirm your flight as some have suggested.
I think you have highlighted a good travel maxim – a SNAFU is exactly that; make sure you have funds/means to resolve it in the short-term, then claim at your leisure.
@lhar – it’s good to read a breath of common sense on this thread. I have never read as much overkill and over the top (and ultimately unhelpful) suggestions to resolve a relatively simple situation. DSARs, photographs on board, CCTV etc.!! Just not serious.
But its not a simple situation, is it? If it was, BA would have sorted it before it got to the stage of sturgeon being forced to buy another ticket.
BA is insisting that sturgeon was not on the flight. BA should have ready access to the data, but they have refused to honour the contract.
Under the circumstances, it would be wise for Sturgeon to gather as much evidence as possible to prove his case in the “Small Claims Court”. How else can they prove their claim if BA continue to display breath-taking incompetence.
BA are not to be trusted. It is a pity that the Small Claims Court cannot award punitive damages. Whilever BA can get away with such egregious behaviour, they will continue to do wo.
And you will doubtless continue to defend them.
@Alex G – I don’t care, but it’s really quite offensive to bang on about me ‘defending’ anyone when it’s patently untrue. You make other untenable assertions such as “BA should have ready access” to the passenger manifest of another airline and reference a refusal “to honour the contract” without considering the precedent facts.
As with any of these problems that people post, one needs to separate the emotion, guessing, finger pointing etc. from the actual facts and relevant issues to enable prompt resolution. Too many cases are lost by overkill or overstatement of case and here the fundamental facts are being totally obscured.
It is perfectly simple, but unfortunately not a situation that was likely to be resolved by the call centre.
Accusing me or BA of various things doesn’t assist.
I agree with Alex G and others about gathering any available data and I’m not clear why JDB and others think things like DSARS are over the top. Let’s take a step back a moment – BA have been given the opportunity to resolve this issue and haven’t. There’s either an issue e.g. with the accuracy of underlying data (such as the manifest) or BA have not looked into this matter with sufficient rigour. If it’s the former there’s clearly an underlying issue that needs fixing. Having independent data which clearly provides evidence of this fact, would enable BA, IB etc to see there is a problem which requires a root cause fix. If it’s the latter, DSARS and other approaches mentioned would force BA to properly look into this matter. JDB might have a point if the DSARS were being requested in a vexatious manner, but this is clearly not the case. Perhaps responding to the DSARs is onerous for BA, but I have more sympathy for travellers who have to face ordeals like this. Unfortunately, companies will only sort out their awful processes and response to problems when they are hit by costs and inconvenience.
BA should have ready access to the data, but they have refused to honour the contract.
It has already been pointed out that the data which BA had ready access to was Iberia reporting that the outbound had not been flown, and on that basis they cancelled the return.
It has also been pointed out that call centre agents are never going to be empowered to dismiss that Iberia data, so sadly it’s not something which is going to get a rapid resolution via a phone call, it will inevitably take some time to unpick.
@phil – at this point it is entirely vexatious and pointless. The issue only arose at the weekend and the BA call centre is hardly in a position to check an IB manifest or see what went wrong. When did they have time to look “into this matter with sufficient rigour”? It’s just not serious at this point.
Others at BA can deal with that and they will look into it. DSARs are a powerful tool but should only be used when necessary and most definitely not as a first gambit. If someone really is desperate to create unnecessary work for themselves and others, far better to give BA a timeframe to resolve the issue, failing which move to the next stage. Keep something in reserve.
JDB – Let’s put aside the fact that BA and IB are part of the same group for a moment. They have commercial agreements in place which enable the two to pass data between each other and presumably processes to resolve issues as they arise. If the processes worked as they should, this would be a simple matter to resolve. Even if I accept your assertion that BA has not had the time to resolve this, BA COULD have said to the customer – “we’ll look into this as quickly as reasonably possible. If we can confirm you boarded the flight we will refund the cost of any replacement ticket you buy in full.” That should be the absolute bare minimum they should offer.
Can you explain why this DSAR request would be vexatious? DSARs are a legal right. You don’t even need to give a reason to request one so there is no “bar” that is set for when one can be requested. It might be vexatious to submit repeated requests in quick succession, but no one is suggesting this.
I’ve certainly used DSARS to great effect previously – and yes, early in a dispute process because it’s short-cut what would have been a lengthy back and forth. You are the one framing these as some kind of weapon, advising that they be kept in reserve. I find your views on the use of DSARS somewhat puzzling…
@phil – if you don’t understand why it is vexatious and wholly inappropriate to seek a DSAR as an opening shot before BA has had any opportunity to investigate, how call centre staff are not and will never be empowered to make the commitment you write (and the same applies to most organisations), nor could possibly have access to the data you claim, how BA and Iberia may be part of the same group but are entirely separate legal entities etc. there’s really no point in discussing the matter.
There’s a professional and business like way to go about these things that will always get better results than the thuggish approach.
It sounds like IB gate staff messed up and perhaps didn’t actually board you, possibly because there was a seat change and the system will not board you until the agent has resolved the seat mismatch between the scanner boarding pass and what it has stored. Then later they offloaded you as noshows while the crew on board resolved the issue themselves without contacting the ground staff, and I’m guessing as well the crew didn’t do a headcount (for ground staff to compare the total on board Vs boarded figures).
The noshowing and cancelling of the return journey is automatic, so the poster is probably not on the passenger manifest. In which case better to focus on getting proof from the airport that you arrived at.
Also tell BA you think the seating issues were due to not being boarded correctly, because the boarding system will prevent duplicate seats and refuse to board and you were never officially given a new seat number
This seems the most likely scenario to me. The manifest mentioned by some as the gold standard of evidence then may well be wrong. I’d agree with the suggestion of gathering as much evidence via DSAR’s as possible as BA and IB might well dig their heels in on the basis of their incorrect data.
JDB – the reason I asked you to outline why you feel this is a vexatious request is because this is dealt with within current legislation. In the event that a vexatious DSAR is made, the business has the right to not comply with the request. The ICO provides useful guidance to what would constitute a vexatious claim and I’ve seen nothing above that would get anywhere close to meeting this threshold.
I understand all of the concepts you list – I negotiate commercial contracts for a living. I’ve had a great deal of experience in negotiating data protection, IS and a range of clauses in B2B contracts (mostly within FTSE 100 organisations).
It’s disappointing that two informed individuals with knowledge of these matters cannot have a genuine different opinion without the other claiming that the other party “doesn’t understand”. You are simply wrong to describe the DSAR described above as vexatious. You have had the opportunity to state why you believe this to be the case, but all you have stated is personal opinion not grounded in the law.
Using the term “thuggish” to characterise the approach described earlier in this thread is laughable. There is much in your response above that I would not characterise as “professional and businesslike”…
We need a “like” button 😉
I think any argument that DSARs are vexatious is significantly weakened when you consider BA regularly act in bad faith: in 100% of my complaints in the last 2 years they have failed to respond within 8 weeks. In half they ‘secretly’ closed the complaint without telling me, without any email notification. In the one complaint I have let run because it is <£20, rather than escalate to CEDR, it has hit 6 months without a response. It is a UK261 claim for costs, which the statutory requirement is it is paid within 7 days. 100% of my CEDR claims have been settled in my favour. One of them was invariably because a DSAR request proved that BA had deliberately acted in bad faith in an attempt to minimize my ability to claim by cancelling my flight when I asked them not to, and they said they wouldn’t.
BA have clearly taken the business decision to allow this poor customer service. Responding in kind by anticipating their failure to respond and starting DSARs early is not vexatious in this environment that BA have chosen to create (or if you’re kind, allow to perpetuate).
We need a “like” button 😉
Indeed.
I’ve always said BA will sort it out eventually.
it’s a pity and very bad customer service that BA does not have a way of expediting this quickly, an emergency route. There should be a process to get this to someone with relevant authority, before the the return flight. For all BA knew the customer could be stuck abroad with no means of return ( whether one should go away without contingency funds is a separate debate).
However BA is not alone in refusal being the first response. This seems to be the norm in the hope that people give up.
I do hope you tried to check in for your return?
Rather than hypothesising (catastrophising), just ask BA to make it good. It is poor it wasn’t resolved earlier (before the return flight) but we all know it needs to get to the right person/dept to get resolved.
As for DSAR requests, given that it is airside I’m not sure that the law applies (IANAL). In any case it can easily be refused on grounds of security. If the OP took it to a small claims, then there is already ample data to show on the balance of probabilities that the flight was taken.
Let BA investigate and refund you, rather than escalate it. The process takes time, and I am sure eventually all will be right in the world. If you want to escalate/expedite then fill in a small claim and send to BA before filing – it might make it to the legal team that will resolve it quicker.
I sent my complaint to BA yesterday but saw no clear option apart from raising a general complaint about a booking. Attached all receipts and evidence I’ve had and I’ve asked for a full refund for the inbound ticket they cancelled, a full refund of the £670 one way Madrid to London tickets we had to book the day before, and compensation in either Avios or cash for everything that happened.
I also emailed it to Sean Doyle and the press office but I doubt that would mean a thing.
I think it’s sensible to request cctv evidence of us boarding the plane (well, going through the boarding gate) as then it’s literally irrefutable unless we either vanished or got thrown off the plane. Gatwick have replied very quickly to just request ID and some details so they can try to pull this cctv.
I already know it’s going to take ages for a response and I’m heavily out of pocket. They called me about a month ago regarding a complaint I made about a flight which took place November 2023. Any way to escalate this complaint assuming I’ll hear nothing for weeks and weeks?
For the person who asked if I checked in to the cancelled ticket, no I couldn’t as the ticket disappeared at least 36 hours before the flight and check in wasn’t open.
My whole life experience is that if you ask for something reasonable you will get it. If you rub someone up the wrong way, you will get nothing.
How about this…. We got on the plane. The computer says we didn’t, and cancelled the return flights. We had to buy new flights. Please refund us the cost of the flights.
Sometimes if you just state the facts it’s a lot easier for everyone!
Appreciate this was a totally crap situation, and not making light of it.
BUT, what would have happened if you would have turned up with your beautifully printed out eticket procured from the deepest darkest corner of the internet, a la JDB ???
BUT, what would have happened if you would have turned up with your beautifully printed out eticket procured from the deepest darkest corner of the internet, a la JDB ???
Well before 1995-ish, you’d probably get on board with a printed/written travel coupon! Just let the process take its course and all will be resolved.
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