Business Platinum forced closure – is it fair I lose my points?

[MingTheMerciless]

I’ll hold my hands up – I’m an avid churner but stopped self referring about 4 years ago.
circa 30 days ago player 2 referred me for bus plat as I had hit my 13 month lockout.
a large spend on ebay allowed me to hit the SUP immediately, I also made use of the £200 amex travel cashback and the £75 dell cash back.

Today I discovered that they have canceled my card without notice and forfeited my MR points (Circa 58k worth).

If they don’t want me as a customer, fine, close my card but withholding earnt MR points seems very creation like.

I’d welcome everyone’s views…

Ming

[Guernsey Globetrotter]

Ironically in this instance it is Amex that has been merciless ! 😉
Sits back with popcorn to await the arrival of @JDB in the thread…

[JDB]

Amex’s ability to do this depends on the reason for closure. If it is for a breach of the terms or any information in the application subsequently discovered to be inaccurate, the terms expressly permit them to remove points, an element that was missing from the Creation T&Cs. If you adopt a live by sword approach, you have to accept the die by the sword as well…

[The Savage Squirrel]

SUP “immediately” may be the key? I can imagine that a massive spend item on Ebay, made the instant you got the card, would be one of the biggest fraud/default-risk markers there is.

[Thegasman]

“Large spend on eBay”. I don’t suppose you know the seller well & they were benefiting from a £1 selling fee & selling an item that may not actually exist or is essentially worthless?

[PeteM]

Thegasman wrote:

“Large spend on eBay”. I don’t suppose you know the seller well & they were benefiting from a £1 selling fee & selling an item that may not actually exist or is essentially worthless?

I don’t think those exist anymore – the best I now get is “80% off variable selling fees”. But happy to be corrected.

[Colin MacKinnon]

My business has just sold a ride-on high-lift mower on Ebay with 80% off fees for just over £4k

The machinery auctioneers wanted to charge me 22% plus VAT and charge the purchaser another 22% plus VAT. And I would have had to deliver it to them.

I don’t think it would have sold for more at the local auction.

So I don’t think it would be unfair if another business had bought my mower on Ebay and paid with a business card?

[memesweeper]

Colin MacKinnon wrote:

So I don’t think it would be unfair if another business had bought my mower on Ebay and paid with a business card?

No, I don’t think it would be unfair. But I do think if it was your first Amex or PayPal or EBay transaction it would be suspicious as hell though. Exactly the sort of thing that makes an account get flagged for automated stop or manual review.

[zapato1060]

The Savage Squirrel wrote:

SUP “immediately” may be the key? I can imagine that a massive spend item on Ebay, made the instant you got the card, would be one of the biggest fraud/default-risk markers there is.

This is the thing with Am, they stipulate one goal. You reach that carrot, regardless whether you done it on the same day card arrives should not entail closure of account. The MR points recollection is a different point entirely. I dont see that the OP has done anything wrong if he legitimately bought something as its no different to us who get a card and think “as soon as I get it we’ll put Xmas holiday on there”.

[Thegasman]

PeteM wrote:

Thegasman wrote:

“Large spend on eBay”. I don’t suppose you know the seller well & they were benefiting from a £1 selling fee & selling an item that may not actually exist or is essentially worthless?

I don’t think those exist anymore – the best I now get is “80% off variable selling fees”. But happy to be corrected.

I still get e-mailed £1 offers fairly regularly but then I hardly ever sell anything on eBay.

Colin MacKinnon wrote:

So I don’t think it would be unfair if another business had bought my mower on Ebay and paid with a business card?

That would be fair. I recall people on here suggesting that an easy way of MS is to utilise an eBay £1 selling fee promotion to list something of value that may or may not exist. Get a close acquaintance to buy & pay using Amex. Rinse & repeat when the opportunity arises.

[Lady London]

As a mature person of a certain age and experience and financially active, why shouldn’t someone only decide to incur the expense of a card when it’s financially useful for them? It’s perfectly rational bwhaviour.

What I’d be more worried about is is this not just indicative of the card being managed in a way that seems unfair, given it’s an offer to financially viable adults of a certain financial level, but is this indicative of the person’s profile history being examined.

In which case, although normally this would not make the most sense, I’d tbink seriously as to whether any MR points on other cards held by that individual should be moved out pronto. Then watch for any similar steps taken by the provider on any account held by any finacially associated person eg at same address.

As hinted by @Ming this may be indicative of 2 things : the exorcism of past self referrers by Amex that was done in the US, is now being done at least segment by segment in the UK market, andbased on all we hear recently it sounds like Amex is on a mission to reduce their credit exposure and declining to leave credit where some analysis is saying they don’t get to keep nearly all the gravy.

[MingTheMerciless]

JDB wrote:

Amex’s ability to do this depends on the reason for closure. If it is for a breach of the terms or any information in the application subsequently discovered to be inaccurate, the terms expressly permit them to remove points, an element that was missing from the Creation T&Cs. If you adopt a live by sword approach, you have to accept the die by the sword as well…

🙂 Absolutely Merciless

I’m all for living and dying by the sword. I’m certain that the application was accurate, AMEX have stated it was a credit review that resulted in the closure however I don’t see why a credit review would have been undertaken within 30 days of account opening given they did a credit check as part of the openeign procedure… which leads me to think it was the ebay transaction (Not Paypal Friends and family).

In my defence the “is it fair” tag was added by the HFP team. I’m no angel when it comes to this game!

Perhaps it’s karma from the double points escapade I went on in covid times… double points then only base points refunded if the payment is refunded. My extended family were very indecisive about the fully flex flights they kept asking me to book.

[Rob]

Yes, we added ‘is it fair?’ to make the topic of the post clearer – although that is a fair summary of the first post!

[JDB]

@Ming I’m afraid a big eBay transaction was probably unwise and coming from a pro – hmm! Re ‘credit review’ shortly after opening, it isn’t that unusual as they seem so desperate to issue cards at the moment that as long as you pass the basic application checks, they will send the card and ask questions later. A ‘credit review’ also isn’t quite what it says on the tin, but just cover for anything they feel like. They are getting much stricter about many things.

As to the ‘fair’ added to the thread by HfP, that’s quite interesting as another poster has highlighted (I believe correctly) that there is already a stewards enquiry into Amex offering business cards essentially to absolutely anyone (ie including those without any business properly so called) without those people necessarily being told or realising that they are not afforded some consumer protections. Other card providers have complained re unfair competition, merchants suffering higher costs and cardholders have complained where transactions have gone wrong not having appropriate remedy.

It is of note that while Amex has to comply with the two months notice of closure rule (unless they have cause for immediate termination), they still often suspend the card immediately and cease future benefits and/or remove ones already earned as in this case.

[zapato1060]

So in essence, if your playing extract your MRs.

[Peter K]

zapato1060 wrote:

So in essence, if your playing extract your MRs.

Or stop. Or even better, don’t even start taking the Mickey.

[sloth]

Peter K wrote:

zapato1060 wrote:

So in essence, if your playing extract your MRs.

Or stop. Or even better, don’t even start taking the Mickey.

It never ceases to amaze the people who take the mick and then start whining when they get bitten…if you are going to take advantage of situations then you can’t start moaning when it goes against you