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Creation is declining and trying to hold up original decision i.e. close the account without any recourse.
This is based on re-opening of my previous case based on recent success posted by HFPointers.
What are my rights still?Were you one of the really naughty ones then @roger? Creation seem to be digging their heels in where they seem to be able to prove evidence of foul play. Where they can’t they seem to be paying out.
If Creation are still refusing to payout you’ll need to take to FOS.
Do we label this group as “Destroyer Class”?!
Were you one of the really naughty ones then @roger? Creation seem to be digging their heels in where they seem to be able to prove evidence of foul play. Where they can’t they seem to be paying out.
If Creation are still refusing to payout you’ll need to take to FOS.
@roger will need to make a new complaint with a different subject matter or new facts (and the final decision letter or eight weeks) before going the the FOS if his original one has been timed out. You can’t just reopen an old complaint to restart the clock without Creation’s consent which is unlikely.Were you one of the really naughty ones then @roger? Creation seem to be digging their heels in where they seem to be able to prove evidence of foul play. Where they can’t they seem to be paying out.
If Creation are still refusing to payout you’ll need to take to FOS.
If you were “really naughty” can I just say well done for whatever you got put of it and I hope you win your case too. I never had a Curve account and they closed my account at the same time as the Curve closures and it took me months to get my points (I only had the white card the other one wasn’t available by the time I opened my account, I only had it about 4 months)
They are a bunch of cocks.
They are a bunch of cocks
err yes, I assume you are referring to the cocks that wake you up at the crack of dawn? 🐓
The investigator of my complaint with the FOS has concluded that Creation should pay me £100 in compensation for their handling of the matter. I’ve already had my free night and points.
The investigator of my complaint with the FOS has concluded that Creation should pay me £100 in compensation for their handling of the matter. I’ve already had my free night and points.
That’s interesting because my Investigator refused to make a recommendation for Creation to compensate me!
I rejected the offer (not because of the lack of compensation, I hasten to make clear) and my case is now going to an Ombudsman!The investigator of my complaint with the FOS has concluded that Creation should pay me £100 in compensation for their handling of the matter. I’ve already had my free night and points.
That’s interesting because my Investigator refused to make a recommendation for Creation to compensate me!
I rejected the offer (not because of the lack of compensation, I hasten to make clear) and my case is now going to an Ombudsman!My claims handler suggested £150. Creation appealed. Claims handler then withdrew it. Escalated to ombudsman who sided with Creation. I think its poor from FOS that they don’t penalise the regulated organisation for dragging their feet and being forced to do the right thing and there is no penalty on top for not acting fairly. Also, I spent a lot of time on this with multiple chasing and escalation.
@DanGK the FOS only awards compensation when it considers that your experience is significantly outside the general aggravations of normal daily life. The FOS doesn’t have the power to levy a ‘penalty’ as you suggest and it’s job is to put right any perceived unfairness you have suffered plus instructing an ‘inconvenience’ payment by way of compensation for out of the norm problems you have suffered. An organisation dragging its feet and/or being a party to a dispute between a cardholder and provider is pretty standard. It’s unfortunate your investigator pitched it too high – you would probably have got £50 or £100.
Interesting. Yes, my case handler has sent the letter to Creation and I await their response. Mine wasn’t just the December closure that was in issue. There were some additional points to my complaint.
Just thought I’d check the recent FOS ombudsman decisions while awaiting my own…
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-4137550.pdf
This isn’t my decision, but it’s interesting to see that FOS are allowing Creation off the hook due to the “services and benefits can be removed at any time’” line.
My case handler used the same reasoning to not uphold my case.
A service really fit for purpose lol
FOS sound like a bunch of cowardly amateurs getting bullied by Creation.
It’s unbelievable that people can make these comments about the FOS without a shred of evidence; it’s just senseless and trying to play to the crowd.
If anyone actually read the decision by an Ombudsman in the link provided above, it’s clear the FOS has been provided with confidential information that has persuaded them that the cardholder had acted in a way that entitled Creation to cancel their account and withhold points. Those cases are quite rare and there will have been a serious transgression.
The suggestion that the FOS are ‘cowardly amateurs’ or not ‘fit for purpose’ is as stupid and mindless as it is gratuitously rude about hard working Ombudsmen.
The fact that the FOS got Creation to offer a settlement to a large number of people and provided ex-cardholders with all that was realistically claimed and that was executed in a reasonably timely fashion is testament to the effectiveness of the service. Subsequent complainants to Creation also got the deal agreed and paid quickly thanks to the FOS.
If anyone actually read the decision by an Ombudsman in the link provided above, it’s clear the FOS has been provided with confidential information that has persuaded them that the cardholder had acted in a way that entitled Creation to cancel their account and withhold points. Those cases are quite rare and there will have been a serious transgression.
I find it interesting that the cardholder themselves, who is being accused of something, has no means to defend themselves.
What’s to stop Creation from bending the truth or simply making up stories to get out of paying?
@JDB It sounds to me as those who were abusing the system and complained have been found out and that those who had their accounts closed as part of the aftermath have had a fair result. There has to be some secrecy in banking otherwise how would fraud or other investigations be carried out without tipping off alleged criminals? I do wonder however, if as shown in recent press, that financial institutions ‘hide’ behind this legislation from time to time.
If anyone actually read the decision by an Ombudsman in the link provided above, it’s clear the FOS has been provided with confidential information that has persuaded them that the cardholder had acted in a way that entitled Creation to cancel their account and withhold points. Those cases are quite rare and there will have been a serious transgression.
I find it interesting that the cardholder themselves, who is being accused of something, has no means to defend themselves.
What’s to stop Creation from bending the truth or simply making up stories to get out of paying?
The thing that stops them bending the truth is honesty. Financial services rely on the provider and the customer being honest and by and large both parties do act correctly. The penalties for dishonesty within financial services may not involve criminal sanctions, but will likely mean you will never work in the industry again and it’s a large and generally well paid to lock yourself out of.
If Creation as a company were found to have acted dishonestly rather than unfairly, the repercussions would be very severe.
Equally, in the case of Creation, very few people have found themselves in your position or that of Mr G – most had their accounts closed on two month notice. That would seem to suggest they have something over and above the bulk of the closures.
FOS sound like a bunch of cowardly amateurs getting bullied by Creation.
It’s quite ridiculuous. Creation dares to withhold relevant stuff during the process, then magically discovers it, and FOS is like “meh, what can I do, 50 quid it is”.
Just thought I’d check the recent FOS ombudsman decisions while awaiting my own…
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-4137550.pdf
This isn’t my decision, but it’s interesting to see that FOS are allowing Creation off the hook due to the “services and benefits can be removed at any time’” line.
My case handler used the same reasoning to not uphold my case.
Reading that I’m not sure what Mr. G did but it’s odd he was quick to accept £50 and not query the lack of points or pro rata fee refund
FOS sound like a bunch of cowardly amateurs getting bullied by Creation.
It’s quite ridiculuous. Creation dares to withhold relevant stuff during the process, then magically discovers it, and FOS is like “meh, what can I do, 50 quid it is”.
What ‘relevant stuff’ are you alleging Creation has withheld? It’s a very serious allegation and not one that should be made without facts and evidence.
Just thought I’d check the recent FOS ombudsman decisions while awaiting my own…
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-4137550.pdf
This isn’t my decision, but it’s interesting to see that FOS are allowing Creation off the hook due to the “services and benefits can be removed at any time’” line.
My case handler used the same reasoning to not uphold my case.
Creation tried to use the services and benefits can be removed at any time line with me.
I comprehensively tore this to shreds with them, they still refused to budge and I gave this to the ombudsman in response to it.
Transfer of points ceased at the point of the closure letter being issued.
1. When I received the closure letter I rang Creation customer services to ask what was going on. They told me that they couldn’t give a reason for closure but when I asked if the account would work as normal until closure they told me it would. They lied to me or unintentionally misled me if they weren’t trained correctly. This call was recorded. (Admittedly not everyone has this weapon)
2. The account remained available to existing customers (and for some time after my closure new ones) with the old Ts and Cs. These terms remained online on Creation’s website as a PDF stating 1 point per £1 spent. The accounts terms didn’t change, they were simply refusing to honour them (this one I feel is hard to wriggle out of)
3. When you view your account online with Creation it shows your current points balance. This continued to increase with every point spent until the day of closure, not from the point the letter was sent out. They were at this point wilfully lying about points being earned (pretty much impossible bullet to dodge)
4. My final statement was sent out after the letter closure. It stated on it “continue to use your IHG platinum card for the following benefits” one of the benefits listed was 1 reward point per £1 spent. They had given me it in writing, after the transfer of points stopped, that I would continue to earn points on spending. Banged to rights.
My thoughts in essence
They have to honour the points. For people with the paid account that are trying to claim the free night vouchers, they may be able to get out of it if you met the threshold with manufactured Curve spending as they could potentially argue it wasn’t real spending and you didn’t meet the threshold. They may have a point here. If they don’t honour any benefits though I’d expect they’d have to refund your annual fee.
Just thought I’d check the recent FOS ombudsman decisions while awaiting my own…
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-4137550.pdf
This isn’t my decision, but it’s interesting to see that FOS are allowing Creation off the hook due to the “services and benefits can be removed at any time’” line.
My case handler used the same reasoning to not uphold my case.
Reading that I’m not sure what Mr. G did but it’s odd he was quick to accept £50 and not query the lack of points or pro rata fee refund
There is no option to query an Ombudsman decision which is the second stage and final. You could theoretically launch a Judicial Review at huge cost and risk, but that only considers the process by which a decision was reached rather than the decision itself.
@Dan Hurley – the cases of Mr G and @stevenhp1987 are different as their accounts were closed without notice for reasons Creation won’t share with the cardholder, but have confidentially shared with the FOS something they are entitled to do. This puts those cardholders in a very different position. It would appear that this peremptory closure only affected a small number of people and in the case of Mr G took place some time before the mass closures.
Here’s my story.
My account wasn’t closed as part of the mass culling of Curve wielding customers. I lost it a few months before that when Wirecard went down, leading to Curve switching off MCC passthrough and thus increasing the number of merchants Creation’s card could be used with. Creation hard coded in an unpublished limit of £700 a week spend with these merchants, but Curve was recharging to MCC 8999 so this limit was bypassed. My account was terminated with no notice as an error at Creation’s end meant my available balance wasn’t accurate, leading me to inadvertently go over limit. I raised this with them but it was never investigated.
Another bug at Creation’s end meant they could not shut an account unless the balance was 0. I had over £15k limit between the three cards and a good chunk of that had been spent at point of closure. They wiped the balances with “goodwill payment” credits.
Creation’s problem was they didn’t do things properly. The FOS and complaints system is quite formulaic and by what felt like a careless approach, they left themselves exposed. Examination of a few case studies before making a complaint greatly informs how the process works and leads to a higher chance of a complaint being upheld. Some of the things that the FOS are obliged to uphold are ridiculous in the sense they basically open up a loophole, especially some of the affordable lending cases. But the more pertinent point is the financial institutions need to do things properly – not doing so means the customer will win if their case is presented properly. Anyway, I digress.
Had Creation given being over limit as a reason for closure, I’d have had no recourse. But they didn’t, they closed the accounts all ham fisted and just pointed to the term that allowed them to close an account immediately, which made it extremely easy to contest it. Immediate closure meant the 90k odd points I’d earned in that week following the previous statement weren’t paid out and they said they wouldn’t be honouring the issue of the free night certificate for that year. So I raised a formal complaint.
Creation’s staff didn’t understand my complaint. They said they would not be issuing the points or the free night certificate, but sent me £150 for the previous certificate arriving late, which was baffling as it wasn’t only irrelevant to what I’d complained about, but I did receive it. I escalated the complaint to the FOS.
It took a long time, but the FOS found in my favour and required Creation to award £100 compensation, the points and issue a pro-rata refund of the card fee. The free night certificate did turn up months late despite Creation saying it wouldn’t, so I withdrew that element of the complaint. Then another free night turned up out of the blue.
Creation contested this conclusion and told the FOS something that was not true. They tried to say I hadn’t earned any points during the billing period the account was closed. This was very easily disproved as Creation had issued statements for that period clearly showing the points that had been earned and that 0 had been transferred. I didn’t make a big thing of Creation’s “error” there – I just sent the statements through and left the FOS to draw their own conclusions.
A second time, the FOS found in my favour but Creation tried it again. I don’t know what they said exactly but the FOS asked me to explain the transactions on my account. These showed iCard topups, a card account that could be topped up with frequent free load promos and earned 4 points per £1 on account of being based outside of the UK. Leopay topups, which was the same but based in the UK and another source of cheap/free points. Sainsbury’s Saveback, Skrill loads and Revolut topups, before they went crazy with the MCC dancing. I just said it was personal spend, as opposed to business spend and nothing that was forbidden in the card T&Cs.
And that was the truth. In all the years I had the cards, there were genuinely no clauses in Creation’s card terms that forbade that type of spend. On occasion these sort of transactions triggered calls from Solihull, but they just wanted to make sure it was me making the transactions and not somebody who had stolen the card. They were happy for me to carry on every time and even whitelisted some of the merchants. Not long before the closure, I got another call. This time it was from someone working BNP Paribas in Ireland and it was someone from that department who signed the account closure letter.
Anyway, back to the FOS, Creation gave up at this point and agreed to pay up – the points, or some of them at least arrived after a few days and the money after a few weeks. I dread to think how much it cost them to reject the complaints then repeatedly contest the FOS’ findings vs giving two closure notice and just blocking spend. But that’s their preferred way of running their business and far be it for me to cast judgement on that.
I hate to think how much running these cards was costing Creation. Clearly at some point a couple of years ago, somebody was appointed to stem the losses hence the customer cull, the addition of categories to the cash advance list and the increase in categories being charged immediate interest. But despite this their credit card portfolio still crashed and burned. It was known since at least 2017 about the interchange fee cap so that was the time to tighten things up. Though I guess it was only when Curve introduced their debit cards around 2019, it eventually increased the volume of spend and gaming and it just took a bit of time for them, along with most of the rewards card issuers to catch up.
Ah well. I didn’t end up out of pocket so to me it’s just one of many crazy episodes in the rewards game. Some of the stuff that happens, you really couldn’t make up. Hope everybody else gets the points and nights they earned.
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