Creation Financial Services bashing

[shub]

Anyone had success booking the free night after the book by date?
The free night voucher previously used to have book by date, the stay can be after the book by date.
However, this voucher issued by creation doesn’t seem to work after the book by dates.

[NorthernLass]

Are you trying to book it in the app? You need to use the website to make the vouchers work properly, they are book by, not stay by.

[shub]

NorthernLass wrote:

Are you trying to book it in the app? You need to use the website to make the vouchers work properly, they are book by, not stay by.

Yes, that was the issue, was trying using the app, Works fine using website. @NorthernLass, Many thanks.

[JDB]

Three more FOS decisions dropped this week. Mr L got no voucher (that he had valued at £350) but £50 compensation for inconvenience, Mr M got no voucher and no compensation, Mr K got his voucher but the £150 compensation suggested by the investigator was appealed by Creation and the the Ombudsman agreed no compensation was necessary.

[Froggee]

I am a little bit fascinated by these as there does seem quite a lot of randomness to the outcomes although this may be caused by Creation sharing the level of naughtiness with the FOS.

Oh well, I’m now booked up for the Intercontinental Park Lane with my voucher so I can see if I complain about that more or less than the Kimpton.

[NorthernLass]

We loved out intern rate stay at the IC in July, @Froggee! The hard product is definitely inferior to the Kimpton but the service was faultless and the location unbeatable.

3 free night certs for us = 3 nights at the Kimpton Seafire next year which is worth about £3k!

[kai]

Sorry if asked already: received the voucher finally but it doesn’t seem to work on Six Senses hotels anymore? Regent is fine.

[ma0nps]

Anyone else still waiting for their voucher? Apologies, but this is a LONG thread, and with the search function out of order, it’s tough to figure out.

I was promised my voucher and any residual points by 30th September, but nothing there…

Thanks,

Nick

[JDB]

Some of the Creationists seem to have become very shy following a further raft of FOS decisions!

Mr G got £29 of points, no compensation, Mr C got his voucher and points + £50, Mr M got £100 for delayed voucher delivery, Mr S got £50 but was refused the 8% interest he sought on his £37.97 pro-rata refund (!).

Mr W was refused his voucher and claimed compensation for financial losses but received none as he offered no evidence of such losses. Another Mr M got £80 for not being able to use his voucher in 2022, neither Mr R nor Mr I got any compensation.

Mr V got £50 because Creation didn’t tell him when they delivered his voucher so says he couldn’t use it for two months of its validity. Mr H wanted compensation for having to complain, the investigator suggested £50, Creation object, no comment from Mr H and Ombudsman awarded nothing.

Many of these decisions relied partly on confidential information received from Creation.

Then there’s the gender neutral X who threw all their toys out of the pram including invoking the ICO although “they were using a service which allowed debit card payments to be made via a credit card which I’ll call C. They were sending funds from Creation via C to another business I’ll call N, then paying the funds back from N to Creation. They argue this isn’t illegal or against the terms and conditions of the account.”

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-4213590.pdf

[zio]

the gender neutral X [ I’m pretty sure this can’t be “Mr X” 😉 ]who threw all their toys out of the pram including invoking the ICO although “they were using a service which allowed debit card payments to be made via a credit card which I’ll call C [LOL]. They were sending funds from Creation via C to another business I’ll call N [ROFL], then paying the funds back from N to Creation.

Yes, the thread does seem to be withering, and having used my recovered voucher last week I have no more skin in the game.

Wondering if the thread has become the HfP record… there was a troll-y thread (possibly deleted?) in the first weeks of the forum which I think made 80+ pages before we grew up.

[Froggee]

I think the Creationists no longer care? I’ve long moved on despite the emotional trauma inflicted on me by Creation. But it’s nice to be kept apprised of the various FOS decisions for giggles.

[JDB]

Froggee wrote:

I think the Creationists no longer care? I’ve long moved on despite the emotional trauma inflicted on me by Creation. But it’s nice to be kept apprised of the various FOS decisions for giggles.

Well, they cared enough still, in recent months (so over 18 months after the closures), to be insisting on getting an Ombudsman to review preliminary decisions that didn’t buy into the narrative of ‘I didn’t do anything wrong’ and ‘I have been hard done by and terribly inconvenienced’ and chasing a £ or two of interest, while neglecting to mention that they had been having it off large for years. None of the various Ombudsmen bought into the ‘victim’ stories at all. Some complainants also cared enough still to be insistent on knowing why their accounts were closed; as if they didn’t already know!

Anyway, they have contributed to the closure of some accounts just caught up in the wake and now the total closure of the card so everyone should thank them for that.

Quite possibly some of the same ‘victims’ playing Amex, something that suits the firm but not something Amex wishes to pay for themselves, so they have gone for fee increases instead. Something else to thank churners and retainees for.

[Dan Hurley]

I would have liked to know why my account was closed. It was closed in 2021 at the same time the accounts that were swindling points via Curve were closed. I never had a Curve account though.

I don’t feel the slightest bit of sympathy for Creation the way they’ve behaved though. Curve are the ones it will have cost the most I suspect, I don’t feel sorry for them either as they were the architects of the card that facilitated this.

[Dan Hurley]

I don’t understand why Creation hid behind the fact their Ts and Cs said they didn’t have to give a reason for closing accounts.

Why didn’t they just say what it was?

[JDB]

Dan Hurley wrote:

I don’t understand why Creation hid behind the fact their Ts and Cs said they didn’t have to give a reason for closing accounts.

Why didn’t they just say what it was?

Creation was not hiding behind any T&C’s – the law provides for any credit card provider to close accounts on giving two months notice (or immediately in some circumstances) without giving any reason. The FOS has referenced that in every decision where it was challenged. The cardholder can close their account immediately without giving any reason.

There also was not any single reason for account closures and some were unwittingly caught up because their activity exhibited some of the characteristics of the worst gamers.

The reason that card providers very rarely give reasons is that it changes nothing and they don’t want to get into some sterile argument. Also, in giving reasons, they risk making it easier for others to avoid getting their accounts closed if they understand the triggers. In some cases, the card provider might be accused of ‘tipping off’ by giving the cardholder reasons for account closure, particularly if their activity has been reported.

[Dan Hurley]

I wouldn’t have thought giving reasons “changed nothing” the Ombudsman in a number of the cases have looked and stated there was a legitimate reason for closure.

They risk making it easier for others to avoid account closure if they know what the triggers are….
Surely that’s a good thing?

Getting into a sterile argument?
The Ts and Cs said they can close accounts for any reason. They don’t need to argue their corner any more than simply say this is the reason do they?

There also was not any single reason for account closures and some were unwittingly caught up because their activity exhibited some of the characteristics of the worst gamers.

Not sure how I could have done that without using Curve. If I’d used Curve legitimately (for example to use the card via Fitbit Pay which Creation don’t support directly) but not abused it, I could have sort of understood if I’d got caught in the crossfire. As it is I haven’t got a clue.

[Harrier25]

…and this is about to change for current accounts where soon they must give the reasons why they are closing accounts, brought on by the Farage debacle, and I’m sure in the end it won’t stop with current accounts, and neither should it.

[JDB]

@Dan Hurley – in response to your points – the Ombudsman validated the closures because while the Consumer Credit Act 1974 provides for closure without reason, cardholders are also protected by FCA principles including that firms can’t treat you unfairly so the Ombudsman, in the published decisions determined that the closures were neither unreasonable nor irrational based on the additional confidential information received.

No firm tells you the ‘triggers’ or criteria they use for assessing credit, account closures etc. because it simply encourages people either to try to circumvent them or to run up to those thresholds which they anyway wish to keep flexible. It’s like people insisting on knowing how much PayPal F&F you can do with Amex; of course they won’t tell you.

@Harrier25 – there is already statutory provision in respect of the basis for credit card closure unlike bank accounts and I doubt it will change. Bank accounts are considered to be different in that they are totally essential to carry out every functions which credit cards aren’t.

You should also be careful what you wish for! If card providers were obliged to provide reasons for closure, you can be sure that the reasons would go on your credit record. In the case of most Creation closures, those reasons would be a serious red flag for other providers. Those who have decided to escalate their claims to an Ombudsman after rejecting an investigator’s have unwittingly opened up a can of worms for themselves.

[IanG]

JDB wrote:

Some of the Creationists seem to have become very shy following a further raft of FOS decisions!
https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/decision/DRN-4213590.pdf

In my case, Creation offered to settle a few weeks ago with the explicit offer of a free night voucher after confirming to FOS I was eligible (I declined the bulk settlement offer in March and indeed never received anything by “mistake” afterwards), and I accepted. It was hinted to me that the ombudsman was about to find in my favour as per my suggestions (I only asked for the voucher + nominal compo), but given the discussion up thread about Creation fighting even tiny compensation proposals I was happy to take the voucher to bring it to an end.

[Peter K]

JDB wrote:

Some of the Creationists seem to have become very shy following a further raft of FOS decisions!

Surely the reason it has gone quiet on this thread as most have had the matter settled 🤷🏻‍♂️

I appreciate you still have interest in this from the other side of the coin, hence bringing it to the fore again, but most have moved on.

PS For disclosure, I have brought no claim against Creation in any form so have no skin in the game.

[Rui N.]

Exactly, except in one case (where the card was closed immediately, ie it was a different case), everyone in this thread got at least their points, free nights and refunds that they wanted. Some even got compensation. Why would anyone keep discussing a dead topic?
But some people seem to want to dwell on how wrong they were and that no one would get anything from these cases.

[robkeane]

Creation has been well and truely hauled over the coals for not doing basic account closure stuff correctly. It was reported here and elsewhere that customers were told that they wouldn’t not get a partial refund for the annual fee, and this was borne out by their failure to automatically do so for the 1800 or so account closure, and only, nearly 2 years later, when told to do so by the FOS did they reluctantly do it and are now doing it for anyone that raises a complaint with them without going to the FOS. One wonders how much many customers did not get refunds, because they did not raise a complaint. Similarly with points that have been accrued, they are now giving them to all those that raise complaints directly with them, but only after the various FOS judgements.

Which company of any merit thinks they can charge an annual fee in in say July, close the account a few months later without reason and just keep all the money? And none of that “customers were having it large” argument, financial companies have an obligation to treat customers fairly, regardless of the scenario.

Interesting to note that for many years, creation’s payment portal has been happy to accept credit cards as a form of payment…and it’s not an oversight, they have historically listed credit cards as a valid form of payment. It is only in more recent times that they “advise you not to use credit cards to make payments”. And it’s advice only, they still accept credit cards for payments against their credit cards. Not exactly evidence of a company that doesn’t like the practice. Virtually all other issuers have their payment portal set to prohibit credit cards being used for payment.

As it transpires it’s probably good for the credit industry that they are no longer an issuer of new credit cards.

[Lady London]

Good comments @robkeane.

Did you just say at the end that Creation is out of tbe credit card business now? Issuing no new cards of any sort in the UK?

[robkeane]

Lady London wrote:

Good comments @robkeane.

Did you just say at the end that Creation is out of tbe credit card business now? Issuing no new cards of any sort in the UK?

Yes, they have had no new credit cards available for some time now, the IHG white one was the last one you could apply for, and now it’s gone too. If you go to creation.co.uk and click on credit cards, there is nothing to apply for. They are still pushing a rather useless replacement for those that have the white one, but no new applications.

[Dan Hurley]

Shame they don’t have any new cards available, now I know how to do it I want to buy some premium bonds.