Creation Financial Services bashing

[Tom]

So when do we all pile in on Creation?

• This topic was modified 54 years, 3 months ago by .

[rich]

From now! I’m not one of the naught boys so still have the IHG card but have just timed out on 5 purchase transactions as their system took over 5 mins to send through a one time passcode. They really are poor, but I want the points so will stick with them!

[dst87]

I mean, it’s only a matter of time, right?

[NorthernLass]

I’ve been promised a response by Dec 8th. I probably won’t poke them again till New Year though, as I don’t want my Xmas trip to be suddenly cancelled by IHG! Did we ever hear anything else from Air Crash Investigator?

[Nick_M]

My account was due to be closed, they have just dropped the credit limit to £30 over what is currently owing… I assume that it has actually been closed for any new transactions and is just part of the process whilst there is a balance?

[apcd2]

Emailed my complaint for missing points yesterday and added a reminder to my calendar for 8 weeks time to escalate it to the ombudsman. They’re within their rights to close accounts for any reason but I can’t imagine how they expect to defend not awarding points in the interim and without informing the customer. Hopefully a few hundred FOS complaints will focus their minds.

[QFFlyer]

My Creation accounts have been restricted since 3/12 as expected. Still open and limits unchanged, but for all intents and purposes dead. Fee refunded on mine but not OH’s black account. Complaint in and acknowledged, response by 23/12 apparently, we’ll see.

[Graham-Walsh]

Emailed them again today to find out where my points are etc.

[SteveJ]

Need an alternative to top up Che. Everyone seems to charge cash advance fees. Solihull’s rubbish IT was good for many uses!

[cinereus]

I thought there were tons of options for topping up Revolut?

[marks7389]

My response is due 17th December but I’m not holding my breath. They’re obviously seeing much the same complaint many times over, so if they really wanted to resolve things amicably and before people start raising complaints to the FOS it wouldn’t be hard despite the complaint volumes. It will be interesting to see what happens but they must also know that as soon as they provide a response to one complainant others are going to know what that is very quickly.

NorthernLass, personally I’m not worried about IHG taking action on the back of Creation’s decision to cull a portion of their client base that they’ve decided is unprofitable. That’s absolutely what this is; I can’t see how anyone has broken Creation’s terms by using Curve, even the small minority who were taking the p*ss with manufactured spend. At worst IHG may be ambivalent to all this (which given my interaction with IHG customer service last year wouldn’t greatly surprise me). At best I’d hope they are asking pointed questions of Creation as to why and how they’ve made such an almighty mess of a product carrying their branding.

[SteveJ]

Cash advance fees are the main issue. Interest charges can be avoided/minimised with immediate payment, but many (most?) cards dont let you avoid a cash advance fee. Saying that I do need to trial run/small test payments from my remaining cards to see what is possible.

[Scallder]

My deadline to hear about my complaint was 8th Dec. Had email saying they needed more time but wouldn’t say how long.

Had a FOS complaint in last year which took over a year to be resolved. Anyone likely to jump straight to small claims court? I’m thinking of doing that and then going for pro rata fee not refunded but cost to buy, say 80,000 IHG points. I k ow that’s not the most expensive reward night available, however I can show from my own stays that had some free nights around that level.

Needing to do this for both my wife and I so hopefully will be able to get a good result in terms of cash for buying the IHG points, at full cost.

[JDB]

Before going to MCOL, you should read the link to the Civil Procedure Rules in the MCOL guidance. It refers to litigation being the last resort and that ombudsmen should be used first where available. In this case you have a statutory recourse to the FOS, so you will be expected to use it. If I were Creation (which, contrary to popular HfP opinion, I am not) I would apply to have your application struck out with costs and you will be at risk of costs etc. for non compliance with the CPR anyway. If you don’t win at the FOS, you can MCOL afterwards but don’t necessarily expect a different answer. To the extent that you have had your fee refunded, so you are just chasing your anniversary night award it isn’t clear if that is actually claimable at MCOL?? It looks more like a ‘loss of opportunity’ claim??

[Tom]

Hi JDB, I assume based on recent posts that you work in Financial Services, you seem to have a good understanding of how these things work. I am really interested in your advice about how we should structure our claims (FOS or otherwise) with Creation. I’ve had my annual fee refunded but I am still owed a large number of points that are being withheld, plus I had hit the 10k spend for the free night since my last anniversary. Do you think it’s worthwhile pursuing? and what angle would you take?

[jj]

Tom, you should definitely use FOS before MCOL. If you don’t follow the correct process, you risk having your claim rejected.

The correct claims process for all products regulated by the FCA is:

1. Claim to the company itself. The rules allow you to make a complaint by any reasonable means, but it’s best to use the complaints process that they must publish. They have 8 weeks to provide you with a final decision.

2. Once you have a final decision or the 8 weeks have elapsed, you can take the complaint to FOS if you are unhappy with the outcome. FOS charges a substantial processing fee to the firm, but it’s free for you. FOS has two levels of decision, adjudicator and ombudsman, so the initial FOS decision is not necessarily final. A FOS ombusman decision is binding on the firm but the consumer may choose to reject it.

3. If you aren’t happy with FOS, you can claim via the normal court process. Although you can start with the courts, your claim is likely to be rejected until you have first exhausted 1. and 2.

It’s important to understand that FOS doesn’t work like a court: previous decisions aren’t binding, and they will look beyond the contractual position in an attempt to find fairness in accordance with the FCA’s 11 principles for businesses and 6 TCF (Treating Customers Fairly) Outcomes. This typically favours consumers: the well-publicised billions that the banks had to repay on PPI claims were mostly against products that followed existing FCA guidance and which supported by legally watertight contracts that had been reviewed by the best legal minds in the land – but the FOS decided the products were unfair so the contracts had to be unwound.

So, if you have to go to FOS, read the FCA’s 11 principles and 6 outcomes, and couch your complaint in those terms. Based on the way that Creation has behaved, you will almost certainly succeed.

[cinereus]

Tom wrote:

Hi JDB, I assume based on recent posts that you work in Financial Services, you seem to have a good understanding of how these things work. I am really interested in your advice about how we should structure our claims (FOS or otherwise) with Creation. I’ve had my annual fee refunded but I am still owed a large number of points that are being withheld, plus I had hit the 10k spend for the free night since my last anniversary. Do you think it’s worthwhile pursuing? and what angle would you take?

Same as any claim. Simply cite the relevant principles and legislation and it’s all common sense logic from there.

I wouldn’t hold much hope for the FOS having enough balls to do anything. Be prepared to have to submit a proper skeleton for MCOL.

[JDB]

I’m not convinced you will get very far, but it’s worth a try. There is still the outside chance of a full or partial climb down by Creation and IHG’s position may get clarified soon, all of which will make it clearer as to whether it is worthwhile to go to the FOS. Obviously, you need to complain to Creation first and wait 8 weeks + to get a final decision. You can go to the FOS after 8 weeks even without the decision, but then all you are doing is rehashing your complaint, not appealing the decision, so you are at a big disadvantage. Either way (for the complaint/FOS) keep it clear, concise and specific (ie not just saying you have been unfairly treated; spell out precisely why/how) and reference the terms or other documents as applicable. Various people have suggested collating all the bits of poor service they and others have encountered which is appalling advice as that is just noise that is irrelevant to the disposition of your case. If they have said something specific to you in a call, subsequently not honoured, obviously that is relevant but whether someone got a credit limit increase during the closure period is immaterial and just a distraction. You should provide a brief chronology of events – the letter, any subsequent calls, letters etc. and put this as a front page to a single PDF with all the correspondence, notes/transcripts of calls, statements showing points and 0 transferred + any other relevant docs. For the FOS, I would look at their form, cut and paste the three headings of their online form and write them in a document to cut and paste once you have a final version. Then attach the aforementioned PDF.

Precision is important – I have read hundreds of FOS decisions and all Creation decisions relating to cards in the last few years + a few of their loan ones. They are very good at winning on small technical points. A particular moment of danger seems to be that they are remarkably effective at getting preliminary decisions overturned by a final Ombudsman decision, so even if you win at the preliminary decision stage, you make wish to consider adding anything new or that they have missed as otherwise Creation will. In this process, bear in mind that unlike in a court process, you don’t get to see their submissions which works to their advantage.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 3 months ago by .

[JDB]

@cinereus – what are you suggesting to @Tom and others is the relevant legislation to “simply” cite in respect of points/free night vouchers?

[JDB]

@jj – if you are going to give a reading list to people, they also need to read the terms and conditions (card terms + points ones) which they have signed up to. I’m not sure which part of those terms you are suggesting might be unfair once you have actually read them which I don’t think you have.

[jimboandthejetset]

I am just below the points threshold to “earn” Spire next year. If Creation send me the points it owes me for the last two months, I would be over the threshold.

I know this is academic for status, as the status will be rolled forward. However I suspect IHG will reward those who would have qualified with a slug of points… and I will miss out on those because of Creation.

So, should this come to pass, am I allowed to claim the loss of that extra reward as a consequential loss from Creation’s actions?

[Roger that]

I thought I might have escaped the purge as I can still open my IHG app account page. This is up to date, except that a monthly payment has been rejected – as advised by email from the payee.

Boo hoo! So now I join the list of claimants.

Coincidentally my Marriott Creation card account bill arrived today. No changes except the card image has changed from black to white.

[LostAntipod]

I complained to Creation in October set an end Oct deadline. They replied Dec 1 rejecting all my claims, namely
– award of free IHG night or cash alternative, since I met the spending threshold, and by false promises, denied the opportunity to direct that spend to other reward programs;
– annual fee refund, since they terminated my account a month prior to the end of the account year;
– I noted that they did not comply with S98A of the Consumer Credit Act (1974), subsection 4 (b) and (c), and FCA Principle 6

I am checking these forums for a bit more feedback before I hit up the Ombudsman. I have already needed to use the Ombudsman once this year, after being screwed over by AGEAS Insurance on the market value of my car following an accident. I did have to wait a few months, but I received over £2000 that AGEAS were unwilling to pay until the FOS intervened – at the bottom end of what I expected but happy nonetheless since it was free. I provided a lot of detail and all correspondence to the FOS, which made their job pretty easy as I had the insurer bang to rights. So I am optimistic they will find that Creation have done the wrong thing here.

[JDB]

LostAntipod wrote:

I complained to Creation in October set an end Oct deadline. They replied Dec 1 rejecting all my claims, namely
– award of free IHG night or cash alternative, since I met the spending threshold, and by false promises, denied the opportunity to direct that spend to other reward programs;
– annual fee refund, since they terminated my account a month prior to the end of the account year;
– I noted that they did not comply with S98A of the Consumer Credit Act (1974), subsection 4 (b) and (c), and FCA Principle 6

I am checking these forums for a bit more feedback before I hit up the Ombudsman. I have already needed to use the Ombudsman once this year, after being screwed over by AGEAS Insurance on the market value of my car following an accident. I did have to wait a few months, but I received over £2000 that AGEAS were unwilling to pay until the FOS intervened – at the bottom end of what I expected but happy nonetheless since it was free. I provided a lot of detail and all correspondence to the FOS, which made their job pretty easy as I had the insurer bang to rights. So I am optimistic they will find that Creation have done the wrong thing here.

LostAntipod wrote:

I complained to Creation in October set an end Oct deadline. They replied Dec 1 rejecting all my claims, namely
– award of free IHG night or cash alternative, since I met the spending threshold, and by false promises, denied the opportunity to direct that spend to other reward programs;
– annual fee refund, since they terminated my account a month prior to the end of the account year;
– I noted that they did not comply with S98A of the Consumer Credit Act (1974), subsection 4 (b) and (c), and FCA Principle 6

I am checking these forums for a bit more feedback before I hit up the Ombudsman. I have already needed to use the Ombudsman once this year, after being screwed over by AGEAS Insurance on the market value of my car following an accident. I did have to wait a few months, but I received over £2000 that AGEAS were unwilling to pay until the FOS intervened – at the bottom end of what I expected but happy nonetheless since it was free. I provided a lot of detail and all correspondence to the FOS, which made their job pretty easy as I had the insurer bang to rights. So I am optimistic they will find that Creation have done the wrong thing here.

Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 98A 4 (a)(b) and (c) do not apply – that is for removing credit, not closing your card. It is 3. that applies here and requires no reasons to be given. Once they moved to immediate closure they will be relying on paras 5 or 7 where again no reasons need be given. It is worth getting these things right (check with someone other than me!) as if you have strands of your claim that make no sense, it detracts from any good points you may have. It is surprising you haven’t had a fee refund as many seem to have had that.

Whatever the reason/cause (and who caused it) for not reaching the anniversary date, that makes it a bigger mountain to climb to get the voucher. Previous cases may not technically be precedents, but the decision has been the same in multiple cases and multiple firms, even if the firm has closed an account.

[LostAntipod]

Actually i based that CCA 1974 language on researching prior HFP comments. But thanks for commenting, I appreciate it.