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We were recently downgraded from premium economy to economy on our return flight from Nashville to London. Two of our seats were downgraded. At the airport they offered me a $193 voucher which I refused however the staff member assured me this was on top of any other compensation i was owed. On the flight, the air steward informed us that she had raised a complaint for us and BA sent me a case reference. This morning they have replied and offered me £100 total. I have replied stating that I was owed more (I’ve read about receiving 75% of the fare difference) but I am confused to what I can actually claim for. We paid £840 and 40000 Avios for 2 tickets one way. Any advice appreciated as to how I can take this forward.
You are correct that you are entitled to more than you’ve been offered. You are entitled to downgrade reimbursement of 75% of the fare and YQ element paid in cash (excluding APD and government taxes). Did you use the words downgrade compensation because it should be downgrade reimbursement?
Is the 40k Avios and £800 an equal split? Ie you paid 20k Avios and £400 for each passenger? If so per EC261/2004 Article 10 paragraph 2(c) you should be entitled to two lots of 75% x 20k and 75% x £400 less any US taxes.
Reply to the email thanking them for their offer but you are actually claiming downgrade reimbursement per EC261/2004 Article 10 paragraph 2(c) as adopted into UK law via the Brexit withdrawal agreement.
You may wish to pit in the calculation of the amounts as above but that’s not strictly necessary.
Edit just realised you said you already replied. Sending another email may confuse matters. Might be worth waiting to see what they come back with.
Many thanks for your reply, when and if they respond I shall quote you. I will have to look into how they charged me as it was for a 15 year old and an adult, so I’m not sure if they offered a reduction in taxes for a teen.
I was also downgraded a September flight from the US to LHR, but paid a cash fare for my ticket.
When boarding the agent at the gate advised that it was a s straightforward process to claim a refund following the flight, and that she had ‘made a note on the system’ to make things quicker for me.
This turned out to be a load on nonsense. The form was very well hidden on the BA website, and then their customer service team did not respond to me for a number of weeks. Eventually they issued me with a £100 credit voucher, but this was rejected.
A couple of weeks later I was offered an alternative in £75 cash refund, which was also rejected.Two weeks have passed and I am yet to receive any further communication from them, however I did dispute the original transaction on my Amex (return flight cost was £1,600).
Amex have decided that I am entitled to a refund of £90 for this downgrade but no calculation or substantiation has been provided- so this amount has been further disputed.The lack of communication from BA throughout all of this has been disgraceful. I have been promised phone calls and priority responses to emails, but these are nothing but lies from BA. I will certainly be avoiding any travel with them again in future.
They have 7 more days to resolve before I can escalate with the CAA.
Did you very specifically and clearly claim 75% downgrade reimbursement of the fare you paid on the downgraded leg? It sounds as though they may be mistakenly trying to refund you the difference, if it wasn’t very big. There are some good threads on here which go into this process in detail.
@barry27 – I wouldn’t rush to CEDR, even if you are entitled to do so in seven days because it will take ages, they aren’t too good on calculating refunds and you have seriously queered the pitch by claiming from Amex.
Whilst you have rejected the offers made by BA/Amex, you haven’t said how much you are actually claiming or what exactly you asked for. I would go back to BA setting out very clearly, perhaps in tabular form, what you paid in Avios/cash/any voucher for the downgraded sector only and deduct any actual disbursements applicable to the downgraded sector.
Provide the calculation of 75% downgrade compensation for each element, how much that means they owe you per person and in total. Send them this calculation saying it is calculated in accordance with the provisions of EC261 Article 10.2(c) and the decision in Steef Mennens v Emirates Direktion für Deutschland and that the offers made so fair fail to compensate you in line with this statutory calculation.
Don’t get hooked up on only using the reimbursement word as this confuses BA and sends the claim off to the wrong people. Use both compensation and reimbursement in your request as the CJEU does.
Give BA 14 days to provide said refund less anything they or BA might actually have paid you.
I wish you luck with yours. I was recently downgraded and put in a claim via the online customer services forms, but as they don’t have an option for involuntary downgrade that I could find I put it under another section for issues with the flight. That claim was closed without any response or way to reopen it.
On 28th I then emailed the claim to the email address I was given at the airport (airport.compensation@ba.com) and have had no reply albeit it’s ‘only’ been about 10 days. Reading other threads, I’m expecting no reply for weeks, if at all, so will then I guess I will have to go to CEDR. I put in that the claim was under EC261 and the calculations for the Avios and cash minus APD etc.
It looks like BA like to dig their heels in with downgrade refunds, which is extremely frustrating. Not only does it cause stress at the airport but then a further fight for the proper level of reimbursements.
Can I ask how to calculate 75% of the fare difference? What base rates should I be working from as I obviously cannot see what a wt+ vs wt fare is now our flight has passed? Thank you.@maybags It’s not 75% of the fare difference. It is a refund of 75% of the fare you paid for the cabin you didn’t get to fly in less any APD or government taxes. The YQ element of the fare should be included.
And the 75% is only for the longest routes (over 3,500km?). Shorthaul below 1,500km pays 30% and medium haul pays 50%
The easiest way to check what is relevant is to check your e-ticket receipt which should give the details. Or use Finnair’s website, key in your BA PNR into their MMB and email yourself the e-ticket receipt.
Not sure if Finnair lets you do that if the flight has been flown though. I have got into the habit of doing it just after I book.
And in your case it is the Avios plus the cash element you paid for each seat.
BA have come back today and said this:
I’m pleased to inform you that you are eligible to receive cash compensation of £75.00 against the evoucher offered. The best way to settle your claim is by bank transfer and it would be helpful if you could send me the following information:
And:
For the specific concern you have raised, I’ve passed on your details to our Refunds team for the difference in fares, they will be in touch with you as soon as possible.Is this on top of what I am owed back or instead of? I find BAs communication very hard to understand! I am reluctant to accept anything incase they tell me they have closed the case and don’t offer me what I am owed.
Thank you.@maybags It’s not 75% of the fare difference. It is a refund of 75% of the fare you paid for the cabin you didn’t get to fly in less any APD or government taxes. The YQ element of the fare should be included.
And the 75% is only for the longest routes (over 3,500km?). Shorthaul below 1,500km pays 30% and medium haul pays 50%
The easiest way to check what is relevant is to check your e-ticket receipt which should give the details. Or use Finnair’s website, key in your BA PNR into their MMB and email yourself the e-ticket receipt.
Not sure if Finnair lets you do that if the flight has been flown though. I have got into the habit of doing it just after I book.
Thank you for clarifying, we paid £520 minus taxes which I know we should receive a portion back. Our flight was Nas-Lhr so we should get 75%
I wish you luck with yours. I was recently downgraded and put in a claim via the online customer services forms, but as they don’t have an option for involuntary downgrade that I could find I put it under another section for issues with the flight. That claim was closed without any response or way to reopen it.
On 28th I then emailed the claim to the email address I was given at the airport (airport.compensation@ba.com) and have had no reply albeit it’s ‘only’ been about 10 days. Reading other threads, I’m expecting no reply for weeks, if at all, so will then I guess I will have to go to CEDR. I put in that the claim was under EC261 and the calculations for the Avios and cash minus APD etc.
Sorry to dredge up an old post but I wanted to ask some advice. I had followed up this claim (invol downgrade from CW to WTP on LHR to EZE) and after an offer of £300 e voucher each and then being ignored by BA, I went to CEDR, asking for 165000 (75% of 220000 cost of flight) plus 2 x £32 which was the fees after deducting airport taxes etc. It was submitted only a couple of weeks ago, so BA have til mid March to reply. I’ve just logged on to my Amex account to find £52 x 2 refunds have gone in a couple of days ago. Logged onto my BA account to see some odd activity, with 220000 redeposit and then a (presumably) dummy LHR to NYC booking on Avios for 1st March, which overall equals a deposit of 87500 Avios. This is half the amount I have asked for via CEDR, no doubt as BA will push the line that as the other ticket was a companion one, I can’t have the Avios compensation for both.
I also notice however I suddenly have a companion voucher back in my account, so it looks like they have tried to cover that by ‘giving’ me back the voucher used for the flights last year. Except it’s no good to me as it expires in mid March.
My question is, am I stuck with having to accept the voucher as it has not yet expired? I asked for the Avios or cash equivalent via CEDR. But can they say they have put me back in the ‘correct’ position by giving me a voucher and half the Avios? Any advice appreciated as I’ll prob have to respond to the arbitration person once BA put something in writing. Thanks!
@Grandad81 – unfortunately, as this isn’t BA’s first rodeo but it is for most passengers, they play games like you are experiencing now. Unfortunately, all this confusion BA deliberately creates can often persuade CEDR that they have done the right thing and resolved all the customer’s complaint.
I wouldn’t wait for BA or CEDR but would write a very firm letter to CEDR and BA advising that BA is not acting in good faith having created a series of transactions entirely outside the CEDR process within which the parties are supposed to be operating. I fear that BA pretends that the crediting of a net 87,500 Avios and the return of a voucher expiring in less than one month (whereas it had xx months validity at the time of use) is somehow a resolution of this claim. That BA should conduct these transactions without reference to the passenger or CEDR must be totally unacceptable to all parties.
While I am grateful that BA acknowledges by its return of the companion voucher, that this voucher was valuable consideration for the purchase of the original tickets, equivalent to the sum of 110,000 Avios, an almost expired voucher cannot be considered to be a lawfully acceptable alternative to the sum of Avios it originally contributed to the purchase of the tickets. BA must therefore offer the sum of 87,500 Avios for both tickets.
For the avoidance of doubt given BA’s underhand attempts to subvert the CEDR process with these obfuscating and erroneous transactions, the second ticket is most certainly not ‘free’ as BA might wish to imply in order to evade its EC261 Article 10 involuntary downgrade compensation responsibilities. The second ticket is paid for with a companion voucher that required the holder to pay £250 to obtain a British Airways Premium Plus American Express card, then to spend £10,000 on that card to obtain a voucher that matches the Avios spent by the holder for a companion. The fact that the voucher is not free can be simply illustrated based on the instant case – passenger 1 paid 220,000 Avios + cash of £xxx and passenger 2 paid with the companion voucher plus £xx. If that voucher were removed, passenger 2 would also have to have paid 220,000 Avios making a total of 440,000 so it is clear that the voucher is valuable consideration. CEDR will also be aware that cases have been systematically decided on this basis and for BA to attempt to suggest otherwise is dishonest.
I would therefore ask CEDR to insist that BA return to the CEDR/ADR process, rather than seeking to undermine the integrity of the arbitration service.
Thank you so much JDB, that is incredibly helpful and I’ve done exactly as you have suggested. Thank you!
Hi. UK261 Art 10, as noted above, covers downgrading and refers to Art 7.3 with regard to how the payment is to be made. Art 7.3 says payment shall be paid “in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.”. You can therefore insist on your reimbursement being in cash in accordance with UK261 and this would be further argument to reject a nearly out of date companion voucher. BA would not be complying with UK261 if they tried to reimburse you otherwise. I have taken BA to CEDR on two downgrading occasions and used this argument to get a full cash refund for both Avios and BA non-tax charges for both passengers on a 2-4-1 reward flight. Good luck.
You don’t want to be reading the words cited above too literally! If you pay in Avios/miles, an airline can refund/reimburse/compensate you in that same ‘currency’ in respect of involuntary downgrades. What an airline can’t do is to refund with miles if you have paid cash, unless you have given express consent. Article 10, (but not Article 7) also provides for payment within seven days which is usually rather optimistic.
If a case needs to be escalated to MCOL the claim needs to be expressed in £ as it does at CEDR, save you can generally opt for Avios if you wish.
Just wanted to say thanks again to you all for the advice given on this thread. Finally got the conclusion from CEDR and BA have had to give the full Avios owed in line with the advice given – 165000.
Thanks again all, definitely worth following up via CEDR.
Just wanted to say thanks again to you all for the advice given on this thread. Finally got the conclusion from CEDR and BA have had to give the full Avios owed in line with the advice given – 165000.
Thanks again all, definitely worth following up via CEDR.
Good to hear of the win, particularly as BA wins the majority of cases that aren’t settled so go to adjudication by CEDR.
Good to hear of the win, particularly as BA wins the majority of cases that aren’t settled so go to adjudication by CEDR.
Why is that? Is it poor prep/strategy or just “wishful thinking” of passengers?? Having done MCOL many times (for non-airline related issues) I wouldn’t even start if I wasn’t sure of winning (or having a good case).
@lhar – it’s a mixture of all of the above. Fanciful or excessive claims, outside the scope of CEDR or made out of time would make up a lot of the fails that never get off the ground. Thereafter one sees disputed versions of events, poorly presented cases or misunderstanding of how the rules work or are applied. Claims involving vouchers and downgrades seem to be particularly contested currently. I note from a recent case reported here that CEDR seems to adopt a tougher line on downgrade compensation than BA has ever done.
The figures do fluctuate a lot per quarter, but for the last available one Q4 2024, CEDR opened 3,199 cases v BA and 473 (c.15%) were rejected from the outset. 2,833 cases were decided of which 2283 were settled by BA, but we don’t know how many were settled partially or in full – when percentages were published, very few were actually settled in full. 550 cases went on to adjudication, of which the passenger won 226 and BA won 324 and again we don’t know if those that went in favour of the passenger were part or full. That was a particularly good quarter for passengers!
Interesting. BA must know a slam-dunk when they see it, and must know what CEDR will decide. But it does suggest that there are some spurious claims that should have been shot at the pass.
I hate to admit, but I have claimed when flights were 3hrs 20min late (no fault of BA). And at the same time 14+ day cancellations where I’ve had to purchase new tickets at a higher price.
Ultimately, EU261 was written 20 years ago and is not fit for purpose. It wasn’t 20 years ago. I don’t have a solution, other than to make people whole. That requires airlines and customers to be honest, and be fair and reasonable. Good luck with that 😁
@lhar – 261 isn’t ideal but I think suggesting it’s not fit for purpose is a bit excessive!
The legislation and CJEU decisions are extraordinarily passenger generous and compensation levels from twenty years on are ridiculously high vs today’s fares.
The Commission, at a recent meeting of airlines, acknowledged that the current cost of EC261 was an excessive burden that unduly disadvantages European airlines. So, changes are actually unlikely to be in favour of the passenger.
The issue is probably that too many passenger claims aren’t fit for purpose!
The legislation worked well during covid and the application of the law has evolved and continues to evolve as does the handling of claims by airlines so passengers need to adapt as well. Yet we still see some posters giving very stale advice and perpetuating myths based not on their knowledge but something they think they read!
Eu261 downgrade is badly thoughtout treat a once class downgrade same as a say 3 class.
Take an example
First overbooked by 1 seat
Business full
PE full
Space in economy.From a customer service prospective , logical route
Move 1 First to Business
Move 1 Business to PE
Move 1 PE to economyHowever this will cost 75% F plus 75% Business plus 75% PE. and 3 disgruntled passengers.
Whilst just moving 1 First to Economy would cost only 75% First , plus of course one absolutely livid First passenger .
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