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Forums Other Flight changes and cancellations help Downgraded at gate… or not?

  • zio 257 posts

    Hi all,

    Looking for advice please.

    Flight home in J from AUS overbooked. Told I’m on the standby list.

    Currently in the lounge pondering life, and there’s only one place to turn for help.

    I have re-read this thread with renewed interest, and have questions arising.

    https://www.headforpoints.com/forums/topic/if-ba-downgrade-me-from-club-world/page/2/

    Is there anything I can do to increase chance of being at the top of this list? eg go to gate before boarding but after check in has closed? How long before boarding would that be?

    If I am to be downgraded is there anything particular I need to do or say to smooth the way to my 75% back?

    Many thanks to any helpful night owls.

    supergraeme 137 posts

    Decline any offers of compensation.

    TGLoyalty 578 posts

    Do you really need to leave tonight? Can always reject getting downgraded … claim your duty of care and eu261 when you get back and relax?

    JDB 4,536 posts

    Do you really need to leave tonight? Can always reject getting downgraded … claim your duty of care and eu261 when you get back and relax?

    EC/UK261 doesn’t give you the opportunity to reject a downgrade, nor requires any airline to pay any additional accommodation, food or transportation costs. BA, as a matter of goodwill, may agree to put you on a future flight and pay accommodation but it’s not an obligation and they may make the offer partly as they know it’s cheaper than the downgrade reimbursement which is your only statutory entitlement.

    JDB 4,536 posts

    Decline any offers of compensation.

    That’s not always the right strategy. Virgin will often offer compensation significantly greater than the statutory reimbursement as will US airlines but while BA staff don’t appear to have that latitude, they may offer future travel in the booked class and cover a hotel, if not food etc. which may suit some passengers.

    zio 257 posts

    Well, really would rather get on this plane though it isn’t strictly “necessary”.

    I’m going to talk to the people at the gate in 5 minutes.

    Definitely not missing anything in this lounge anyway. One gentleman has fallen asleep at the bar and is now complaining about not getting another drink. Another is talking drunkenly on his phone at the bar.

    The whole airport has been a zoo. I think people’s eclipse related vacations are all ending together.

    Many thanks, both, for replying.

    zio 257 posts

    And thanks @JDB too.

    I will report back, possibly with further questions!

    TGLoyalty 578 posts

    @JDB you’re right about delay compo. My bad. I did still think they had duty of care as it’s the airlines fault that they can’t get you home on the booked class but again you’re probably right.

    I also thought compo given to you by the airline at the airport doesn’t preclude you from claiming your statutory rights if it’s less than what you were due? Is due £1k but accept £500 you can still claim the difference when you land?

    Hope you make it back in J @Zio if not 75% compo makes things bearable in hopefully no worse than PE

    zio 257 posts

    WT+ for me 🙁

    Just about to do my sums. Will need my homework checked though please!

    Again, thanks for the replies.

    JDB 4,536 posts

    @JDB you’re right about delay compo. My bad. I did still think they had duty of care as it’s the airlines fault that they can’t get you home on the booked class but again you’re probably right.

    I also thought compo given to you by the airline at the airport doesn’t preclude you from claiming your statutory rights if it’s less than what you were due? Is due £1k but accept £500 you can still claim the difference when you land?

    Hope you make it back in J @Zio if not 75% compo makes things bearable in hopefully no worse than PE

    There’s no ‘fault’ or ‘extraordinary circumstances’ for downgrading and the legislators in 2004 didn’t anticipate four classes of travel. The 75% reimbursement is supposed to be compensation for all the inconvenience and discomfort rolled into that payment. If you were to be offered anything partial at the airport, I would still claim the full statutory amount rather than offset it on the basis is just a goodwill gesture on top, but they can’t trick people into some lower full and final settlement that’s below the statutory requirement.

    zio 257 posts

    No mention of compo at all,

    So the flight was booked with a BUV so I paid 67,500 avios (instead of 100k) + £225 for the return leg.

    Should I be claiming 75% of 67,500 (which values the voucher at nothing) or of 100k (which is more than I paid!)? Neither seems totally logical but what is the correct number?

    Do I claim 75% of the £225? Or do I need to take off the £30 or so of USA taxes and fees listed on my booking email? Because it’s all wrapped up in the RFS number it again isn’t obvious (to me) what the correct number I should be using is.

    So many questions. Thank you in advance for guiding me through the process.

    slidey 295 posts

    Imo that would be 75% of 100k, because otherwise it values your voucher as 0 because it will be gone and you didnt get an upgrade, so in effect your voucher got nothing?

    Dont forget to claim the value of the 75% at the cash value that BA sell avios for rather than just asking for points back.

    zio 257 posts

    I thought for reimbursement I would be dealing in avios? Monetary equivalent only if BA don’t play ball?
    Very possible I have misunderstood though!

    TGLoyalty 578 posts

    Unless they’re are giving you your voucher back I’d be claiming 75% of the 100k and £225 less actual taxes and fees but RFS complicates things as you’re not really paying them.

    Hopefully someone else with experience of actually claiming after RFS came in can help

    Yeah Avios + cash if BA play ball and £ value if they don’t.

    JDB 4,536 posts

    @zio you should claim for 75% of the full Avios amount pre use of the voucher as the voucher is part of the total consideration. At this stage you can only ask for the Avios (rather than the cash purchase price thereof as suggested above). For the cash element, you are entitled to 75% of the RFS you paid for that leg, less the actual taxes/charges paid out and these should be detailed on your confirmation. BA will likely fob you off with paying the difference or recently seems to be offering a confusing mix of a voucher (with a lower value cash alternative) and some Avios. If whatever they offer isn’t satisfactory to you, you should push back and if still no satisfaction, go to CEDR or MCOL where you can then claim the cash purchase price of the Avios as either of those claims need to be expressed in cash terms.

    Matt 343 posts

    Not seen any reports previously relating to downgrades after using a Barclaycard upgrade voucher, but as suggested I would treat it as being equal to the avios it saved you. That’s the same way as companion vouchers should be treated in this scenario.

    I suspect that BA will not see it that way, so you will probably have to go to CEDR, but you should win there.

    slidey 295 posts

    Its such bullshit that you can book a specific cabin only to have the airline refuse to give you what you paid for with basically zero consequence.

    AJA 1,089 posts

    @zio that was unfortunate. But remember that you are claiming downgrade reimbursement (not compensation)

    I think you should be claiming 75% of 100k plus 75% of the cash which is what the J seat would’ve cost. The fact that you paid less because of the BUV muddies the waters but that’s BA’s issue not yours.

    Lady London 2,117 posts

    Yeah, BA views the extra avios or voucher payment made for J as them buying an option from the passenger to choose to seat the passenger in J. (in exchange for the credit they gave the passenger in the ticket towards J =the strike price of the option, over and above the minimal cost of a Y ticket they sold)

    Meanwhile BA continues to make all efforts to try to sell that seat in J, that the passenger thought he had bought, but that BA has only bought an option to put him in J on.

    BA does not have to execute that option, and they won’t if they can sell the seat. Even if BA doesn’t execute the option the option purchase can’t be unwound and the passenger is stuck with the strike price for J still being locked in the ticket – as it was a credit towards a J seat BA viewed as optional over and above a Y ticket BA had sold the passenger that he can’t unwind if BA is still willing to fly him on that flight but in Y.

    This is what BA’s behaviour looks like they are systematically doing according to reports on here over time.

    I will take a bet BA’s internal systems maintain 2 different numbers for seats unsold in a class on a flight.

    The first one being seats unsold, with any seats they have sold involving voucher or avios payment added back in. That’s what BA continues to try to sell.

    zio 257 posts

    Well it wasn’t in the comfort I was hoping for, but I’m back safe and sound which is the main thing. Unlike my bag which has lost a wheel en route, so that’s another thing to chase up next week. 70 bags apparently left in Austin too.

    Little doubt that a solo traveller on an avios ticket was the easiest target.

    So no, I didn’t get what I paid for which is a disappointment and indeed a bit annoying. However, if I do get back 75k avios and near enough £150 I will have had a flight I didn’t pay for. It could be worse!

    Thank you for all the help and support. I’ve said it before- this is a wonderful community.

    TGLoyalty 578 posts

    @Zio glad you and your luggage made it back (mostly in one piece) and exactly as you say getting the flight in PE for free isn’t be so bad.

    Hopefully you’re flying J again soon

    Alex G 454 posts

    You should claim back the cost of buying 75000 Avios, which is about £1337. Plus £150. Don’t let BA off lightly by accepting Avios instead of cash.

    You may need to fight this through small claims, but it should be worth it.

    BA Flyer IHG Stayer 2,170 posts

    If you paid in points the airline is quite entitled to reimburse you in points because that’s how you paid for the ticket.

    Taking the points isn’t letting them off lightly.

    PeteM 737 posts

    Its such bullshit that you can book a specific cabin only to have the airline refuse to give you what you paid for with basically zero consequence.

    Agree – and the compensation is really pretty derisory when you compare W and J on a long flight!

    Blair Waldorf Salad 1,147 posts

    Its such bullshit that you can book a specific cabin only to have the airline refuse to give you what you paid for with basically zero consequence.

    It really is such a gap in air passenger rights. If a politician knocks at my door, I’ll certainly raise it but I doubt anything will be done. No votes in it. What we need is a story about some national treasure being downgraded, suffering a DVT and the papers running with it.

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