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Hi all
I know this gets asked loads of times, but there can’t be many people with the 50% avios tickets about.
I booked First to Nashville originally in Oct 20 for 23rd June 21, these were cancelled, then booked for 7th July indirect. These were cancelled and I rebooked to 27th April this year. The return is now booked for 2nd May. The return flight was cancelled but there are a few options to still get there on the 27th.
I now want to move the flights to June. I’ve been told by You First that it can’t be done because it’s past the year validity. But I was already moved to beyond the validity. Was that just a mistake or a favour for me?
I haven’t really got the appetite to go down the EU261 route, but would it be worth it in this case? Is there a step by step guide of what I should do if I do decide to do it. Would I be likely to win it in this case?
Thanks
Ben
It’s not clear which options you accepted (if any) after the cancellations, but if you accepted changes then you’ve given up your rights under EU/UK261. Are you saying your May return leg has been cancelled and not been re-scheduled with your consent? If so you have your re-routing rights but may have to put up a fight.
I’ve accepted all the changes all along and changed to dates that suited me. I haven’t accepted anything with the latest changes- it was a downgrade on the outbound and cancellation on the inbound. As far as I’m aware, I can get rerouted on a later date? You First said he didn’t know about EU261!
If BA hasn’t made a cancellation of any flight on your booking that you haven’t made a change in answer to, then BA can enforce the one year I would say. Even though it’s unfair given the preceding number of cancellations they did.
Your best bet is to keep checking the flights on your booking in hopes they will cancel one. It just takes one anywhere on the booking and then you have change of date option “rerouting” on the whole booking. If any flight number changes then regardless of timing that counts asva cancellation.
Watch the flights as though you wanted to buy each one new. Don’t watch them from within Manage My Booking as plenty of times BA has not alerted people to changes till very much later. Also check the IAG Cargo site regularly. As of about 3 weeks ahead of the flight, if cargo space is still being sold on it then you can consider it as not going to be cancelled.
If you can consider still flying the outgoing as currently booked then look carefully at your specific fare code rules as generally you will find if you fly the outgoing, after that it’s often not onerous to change the return. Depends how flexible you can be.
I’d not take an FTV as you’d lose so much. I’d wait quite a bit longer and make a few more attempts (likely refused, but worthba try or two). Watch, watch, keep checking each individual flight you have as though you were making a new booking. The instant they cancel anything or give a new flight number, pounce. They may still try to quote the 12 month rule but legally they can’t enforce this, at MCOL you’d win.
On the basis that your latest inbound has been cancelled then you are entitled to re-routing at a date of your convenience. If BA refuses then you need to get a statement from them that this is their final position then either go to CEDR or MCOL. I used CEDR and found it quite easy and effective – all the instructions are on the website.
Ah…just seen your reply above.
If you haven’t accepted a solution for latest changes you can choose any dates to reroute onto including after 12 months without any cost to you.You can also claim reimbursement for the downgrade after your flight. Be sure to keep it that the downgrade is involuntary. Very, very much better if you don’t accept any refund and don’t accept any part of the avios back even if they offer. Refuse any refund, just do the reroute to your new dates, you can be quite open if forced to fly it you will be claiming EU261 following the flight, for the involuntary downgrade.
If they hate the idea of EU261 meaning you can have a rerouting more than 12 months from your latest ticket reissue, they’ll hate the idea of refunding you 75% of what you paid in avios and ‘taxes’ (less about £200 for real tax APD), for each of the 2 seats, based on the refund due for the first seat, even more !!!.
Know that if you change the date other than as a response to a cancellation by them, you will lose the downgrade reimbursement. If you do change the date following a cancellation by them, ask again for a seat in First and if they say not available make sure you keep it clear the downgrade is involuntary. Do not accept any refund of tax or avios pre-flight, you csn tell them you’ll put in a claim for the involuntary downgrade after the flight.
When you’ve flown it put in the claim for the 75% times 2 ( so for both seats at rate for the first seat). If they foolishly refuse you will then do an MCOL claim in which you claim each avios due back at 1.6p. MCOL awards money, so this is how you do the claim as 1.6p is BA’s standard selling price per avios. If they’ve got any sense they’ll give back the 75% avios part as avios, as well as 75% of the cash when you claim, except for the £200 or so taxes without making you MCOL as this will cost them less cash. Don’t accept anything back before you’ve flown it as BA may try to claim you settled.
PS please let us know how you go.
Sorry. Should have been clearer. The outbound was downgraded and the American Airljnes connection was cancelled, or changed flight number. The return is definitely cancelled. I can only get a connecting flight back, which I haven’t decided on.
Doesn’t Virgin fly to Nashville these days? You can insist on being re-routed directly if that suits you.
Sorry. Should have been clearer. The outbound was downgraded and the American Airljnes connection was cancelled, or changed flight number. The return is definitely cancelled. I can only get a connecting flight back, which I haven’t decided on.
please specify exactly which physical airline each of your flights is operated by (ie whose aircraft you’ll be sitting in) plus which exact flight(s) are currently still cancelled that you haven’t made any change to the booking in response to.
Basically people on here say if your return leg is on a non-European airline such as AA, even if it has a BA flight number, EU261 won’t cover you. On the outward leg then provided you depart from Europe or UK on any airline at all, even Timbuktoo Airways, EU261 rights apply.
It looks like the return flight from US has been cancelled and the operating airline is American Airlines (BA only sold you the ticket). In that case EU261 does not apply for the inbound. You need to see whether your outbound will be cancelled/significantly changed in which case you can request re-route for the outbound and due to downgrade also 75% compensation post-flight. For the inbound, I think you’re only option is a refund.
You should have insisted initially on being re-routed/moved the flight with BA. By taking the American Airline option for the return, you have inadvertently relinquished in part your EU/UK261.
This is what happens when people accept any re-route presented to them by the airline, in this case BA. I hate when BA tricks people like that and I hope that people who read this here now will think twice next time before accepting a change.
Thank you all!
Sorry to confuse everyone. All flights are BA.
Booked 6/10/20 to Nashville – Avios Sale. First Out, Club Return for 23/6/21 – 28/6/21. At the time Nashville had direct first class. This was cancelled so booked via Chicago and connect to American on 7/7/21, return direct from Nashville on 12/7/21. These flights were then cancelled, so booked, still via Chicago for 29/4/22, return direct 2/5/22.The latest is that my direct return was cancelled- I have not rebooked anything. My options are that I can still fly on 29/4/22 because there are a couple of connecting flights – which I can get in First, but I’m sure that on the basis of the return flight being cancelled, then I should be able to change the whole lot. I haven’t accepted any changes to this part yet, but I’m being told that I can only fly on those days.
I hope that’s a bit clearer! Maybe I was a bit lucky earlier on in the booking chain that they changed it so many times?
Lady London and Meta, I do remember all of your informative posts from the original chat threads, but I’m struggling to find them. Thank you for your help!
So your return flight has been cancelled by BA and was a BA flight (not AA or other partner)? If so then you do have UK261 rights.
Ok. EU/UK261 applies then the outbound leg on the American is outbound, but it applies due to the ECJ ruling (prior to Brexit) which deemed that connecting flight even though it doesn’t touch EU forms part of one ticket originating in the EU. Given that return is direct with BA, I’d go for re-route/downgrade compo.
For MCOL:
1. Send LBA to legal department at Waterside (give them 21 days to respond). Be clear on you re-route rights and quote relevant legislation and articles
2. Depending on the response proceed to MCOL claim. You might have to purchase a new ticket, but if you’re confident that prices are not going to go much up, obtain three quotes and demonstrate the cost that way.
3. Wait 28 days for them to acknowledge (possible extension of 14 days).
4. Then hearing, but hopefully BA settles or rebooks you
5. Following the trip contact CS to demand downgrade compensationAdvice: be factual, provide timeline in your LBA and MCOL submission
You might also want to try S75 claim with the credit card provider if an option to buy a new ticket proves to costly. In that case, you’ll need some sort of final response from BA.
Yes you should be able to change your dates “reroute” all flights on your ticket both ways.
This time also, when you choose your return flights, still make sure you are on BA. Ideally BA as the only flight on the return but if not, then the first flight of your return. (Any other European airline would do but no way will BA book you on one – they will try to force an AA-operated flight if they are having trouble finding one of their own.
I don’t think this has been a problem for you so far but just to clarify that even if you are rerouting a booking that was all or part paid by avios, the airline is not allowed to say they can only book you into an available award seat. If there’s any type of seat on the plane in your cabin class then you have a right to be booked into it in this case.
Scrutinise any BA flight number carefully. Make aure BA’s operating it not AA on the way back as that keeps your EU261 rights unquestioned. 4 figure flight numbers on BA tend to be the evil ones in this respect:-)
Thank you all so far.
So just to confirm, my return is with BA anyway.
And just so I know, I am entitled to move it to June now, as that will be much more convenient for me?
Thanks
Yes you have the right to choosea later date to be rerouted on that is convenient to you.
Convenient to you (the passenger) is literally the exact wotding in EU261. You can google it. A UK law with same contents was done at Brexit.
The legislation states no time limit. Everyone has their own reasons for finding a particular date convenient. Just be reasonable. Your choice.
We’ve seen reports of BA settling, losing at CEDR and losing at MCOL on this very point.
Thanks again
The reason I want to rebook is that my sons communion has been set for the weekend I was to be away I thought it might be easier to negotiate with BA than the church!
I just don’t understand the mentality of BA. I WILL use my 50% avios flights – the church will change the date- so either way I will get on a flight for half price! The funny thing is, is that’s the flight they are willing to book me on, on my original dates, are double the price of the flights that I want!
Is it worth a twitter DM to explain all of that, rather than on the phone?
Hi all
Just an update to this. I will be taking BA to CEDR because I think it will be the most straightforward thing to do.
I’ve had email conversations with YouFirst who are adamant that they will not extend my booking. I have asked them to confirm that a couple of times which they sort of have. Will that be enough for CEDR?
I’ve also sent a complaint through the main complaints website, had a reply in which they gave me 10000 avios, but no acknowledgement of my problem.
Is there another way that I should be sending my complaint to? And what is the “deadlock” letter that CEDR need?
Thanks
Ben
You’ve tried enough times so no deadlock letter as such, needed. Just put all your attempts into the timeline that you submit.
Go Letter Before Action as meta advises then CEDR if you chose that instead of MCOL. Personally I’d give BA only 14 days in the letter as they’ve been asked enough times.
It’s really strange BA (says they) can’t do this as @lumma posted a very long time ago that for cancelled flights, IATA lays down the procedure that overrides standard ticket validity. IATA instructions are to endorse the ticket “INVOL” and this lifts the validity restriction. BA is supposed to conform to the industry procedures IATA lays down.
If BA or its cr4p IT can’t handle this requirement then there is nothing to stop them just issuing a new ticket. It’s perfectly possible to keep the audit trail between old and new ticket.
Thank you!
Sorry if I am being thick. Should the LBA letter go through the complaints website or is there another place to send it. Never done one before so just want to make sure it’s right.
Thanks again
See the process that I outlined above! Instead of MCOL, you just submit to CEDR and follow their procedures. It’s pretty evident what you need to do for CEDR once you start the process.
Thank you meta and lady London
I’ll let you know how I get on!
Thanks
Ben
Let us know how you get on.
@bd85uk, will be watching this thread with interest on how you get on. Just going through the process of getting my cancelled 50% 241 in club to SYD rejected due ticket validity. Called twice with same result, second agent know of the first attempt. Complaint put in and awaiting reply before I assume I will be going down the CEDR/MCOL route.
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