Given wrong advice on a child’s passport by BA customer services

[NorthLondon1]

Earlier this month my daughter returned from university with a passport valid until November, but a child’s one (she’s 19) which had an issue date of March. I was aware of the 3 month to expiry date but didn’t know if it applied to a child’s one too. I called BA and the woman (in response to it’s a child’s one with 7 months left but issued 5 years and month before) said ‘aw bless, they’ll send her back’. She also went to the back office (who rearrange flight booking) and confirmed that it was the younger daughter on our family BAEC account, so they had her actual date of birth as well. My husband said that he’d stay with her and try to come later, and I asked if we could cancel his outbound flight but she wouldn’t do that as it was an Amex 241, which meant that I had to lose his booking.
My daughter suffers from anxiety and depression and had a difficult time in her first year at university so it was meant to be a treat for her, but after travelling for 5 hours spent the afternoon and early evening alone in her room because if it. I was so stressed I was shaking and cried!

Anyway, I kept looking and eventually found that Ryanair did the same thing to a family in Glasgow, but refunded them and trained staff. I called BA again and was told I’d have to book new flights for my husband. This cost me 28000 avios and £60. When I complained they refunded me 5000 and refuse to give me any more back. Is there anything that I can to as it was their fault, and really traumatic for us because the customer service team don’t know the rules. Thanks for any help!

[StanTheMan]

What is the problem ? Is the passport valid or not? When is the booking for?
Would you phone the passport office to ask about BA ticket validity ?

[Lula]

This is a very confused scenario. You might want to set out clearly exactly what happened if you want advice or helpful comments.

[JDB]

BA is simply not qualified to offer this type of advice and it’s difficult to understand why you would choose to rely upon BA agents when there is so much information available on official UK or overseas official government websites. While it’s obviously a highly regrettable situation, trying to pin it on BA or seek compensation from them does not seem fair or reasonable.

[NorthLondon1]

It states 3 months must be valid after the ISSUE date on adult passports. I called BA to find out if it was OK to travel on my daughter’s child’s passport (it is) with 7 months left, but was told her passport was invalid by the agent, which was incorrect. The agent said that she couldn’t use it despite being a child’s passport valid until November and she would be turned back (not true). I searched online, but couldn’t find anything on the rules for children’s passports, except later that evening when I came across an article in the Mirror quoting Simon Calder article on Ryanair from last year where they did the same thing and refused. There is literally nothing official stating that a child’s passport is always OK as long as it has 3 months left to run. It states on most official websites that a child’s passport has to follow the same rules as an adult’s one, which it doesn’t in regard to the issue date (not expiry date.) It was issued in March 2018, and expires in November 2023. It needs 3 months left on entry ONLY, not the issue date rule which is what I was given the wrong advice on, as she suggested that it was months out of date for the EU. I’d have thought that BA would know the rules but they apparently don’t and I expected them to respond better after causing us to cancel a ticket unnecessarily after they told me she had an invalid passport.

[StanTheMan]

NorthLondon1 wrote:

It states 30 months after issue and 10 years on adult passports. I called them to find out if it was OK on a child’s passport (it is) but was told her passport was invalid by the agent, which was incorrect, and the agent said that she couldn’t use it despite being a child’s passport valid until November. I searched, but couldn’t find anything on children’s passports, except later on when I came across the Simon Calder article on Ryanair last year, where they did the same. There is literally nothing official stating that a child’s passport is always OK as long as it has 3 months left to run. It states on most official websites that a child’s passport has to follow the same rules as an adult’s one, which it doesn’t in regard to the issue date (not expiry date.) It was issued in March 2018, and expires in November 2023. It needs 3 months left on entry ONLY, not the issue date rule which is what I was given the wrong advice on. I’d have thought that BA would know the rules (they apparently don’t) and respond better after causing us to cancel a ticket unnecessarily.

do you mean the issue date rule about it having to be issued no more than 10 years ago?
So a 2018 issued passport wouldnt have been a problem?

[Froggee]

As @JDB says this is very regrettable. Obviously we don’t know how the conversation with BA went but it does seem somewhat different to the Ryanair situation you referred to where Ryanair denied boarding at the airport incorrectly:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ryanair-valid-passport-spain-flight-b2070315.html

If it were me, I’d accept I made a mistake and move on.

If you feel very strongly that BA explicitly told you that your daughter could not fly and in effect forced you to make these unnecessary changes then you could of course ask for a recording of the telephone call as is your right. You could then play it to a third party (friend) and see if they genuinely agree that you were explicitly told your daughter could not fly or if perhaps there was ambiguity in that you expressed concern that she might not be allowed to and therefore you wished to change the tickets.

You can then decide whether you might wish to take it to arbitration, write to the CEO or perhaps decide that life is too short.

[NorthLondon1]

A 2018 child’s passport is absolutely fine if it has 3 months on it. Even if months past the issue date.

[StanTheMan]

NorthLondon1 wrote:

A 2018 child’s passport is absolutely fine if it has 3 months on it. Even if months past the issue date.

Exactly, so why did you cancel the flights?

[NorthernLass]

What kind of trip does this refer to – when you say your daughter came back from university had she flown back from somewhere or were you taking her away for an Easter break (which necessitated her returning home first)? If so, where were you travelling to? Not all countries have the same rules, of course.
I don’t understand the comment about “sending her back” – if her passport wasn’t valid, the likelihood is that she would have been denied boarding in the first instance and never got as far as being sent back from anywhere.

[NorthLondon1]

Well it looks like I have to, but they gave me the wrong advice and caused a lot of stress and expense. 23000 Avios is a lot to me as I don’t fly in my job. I appreciate that you all fly a lot, but the government and passport office don’t give any clarity on children’s passports. That’s why I called BA – for clarity, and THEY didn’t know the rules either. I just wanted to know if they tell you that you can’t fly and you can if they should do anything about lying to you, but apparently that’s OK.

It would be good if the government clarified things on their website, but I know that’s never going to happen! I did call the Passport Office helpline afterwards about expediated passports, explaining child’s passport, 7 months left, issued March 2018 and the man I spoke to there also gave the wrong advice about it too, so I’d say it’s a problem that many people face. I just wish we’d gone to the airport but I was really upset and didn’t want to be turned away as we were told we’d be.

[NorthLondon1]

NorthernLass wrote:

What kind of trip does this refer to – when you say your daughter came back from university had she flown back from somewhere or were you taking her away for an Easter break (which necessitated her returning home first)? If so, where were you travelling to? Not all countries have the same rules, of course.
I don’t understand the comment about “sending her back” – if her passport wasn’t valid, the likelihood is that she would have been denied boarding in the first instance and never got as far as being sent back from anywhere.

The rules are the same in the EU. She came by train from Scotland. I cancelled my husband’s flight as he offered to stay with her and try to get an emergency passport mid-week and join us. Both ways were cancelled as they wouldn’t let me cancel only the outbound. She couldn’t be left alone, as it was her the holiday, and her birthday at the end of it.

My point is – BA told me that her passport was invalid but it was. They didn’t know the rules. They cost me a lot of Avios and £60. They think that’s fine! yes, it’s not the end of the world, but as far as customer service goes it’s shocking on both counts. They didn’t even apologise or say that they would look into staff knowing the rules, so the moral of the story is don’t trust BA, as when they mess things up for you it’s your fault!

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

This is all very confusing. Not helped by including a lot of irrelevant information.

A child passport is only valid for 5 years so can you please just give the issue date and the expiry day and where you were travelling to.

If it was issued as you write “5 years and month before” and had an issue date in March and expiry in November then that means it included unused time from a previous passport and that – for some countries – is an issue as they do not include the carry over time when they calculate whether a passport is valid for admissions purposes.

[NorthernLass]

@NorthLondon1, I’m just trying to get a better understanding of the issue! You didn’t mention the EU initially, so it could have been any country’s rules.
I don’t think many of us do trust BA though, to be honest, which is why the general response is that it may have been unwise to rely on any information they gave you.

At what stage did you cancel your booking though as it should have mostly been refundable up to 24 hours before departure?

[The Savage Squirrel]

@NorthLondon1 this next advice may seem unkind but it really is meant in a kind way.

When you are describing issues and asking questions here, you do it in a very random and scattergun way that has left many posters really quite confused. Me too. This was not just one post – it is all your posts. Much important information is missing. Much irrelevant information is included.

If you phone up help lines and talk to phone agents and ask questions or seek advice, and you do this in a similar way to the way you post here, then you are going to get wrong answers. A lot. This is because agents will have misunderstood or misinterpreted the situation or question, so will be answering a different question to the one you asked, or are basing their answer on information and circumstances which they were not able to fully and correctly understand.

The main thing I’d take from this whole experience is the need to explain any situation in a concise logical sequence, and ask precise questions after doing that, to get the information you need. This is particularly important when phoning call centre staff who are not getting any information conveyed by facial expression or gesture and may not be working in their native language.

Having a few pre-call notes in front of you made in the form of a flow chart can often help you to do this.

Sorry if this does not help with your current problem, but it should at least help prevent a repeat…

[BA Flyer IHG Stayer]

Having read the OPs posts afew more times I conclude (as I sort of did in my first post) that the BA is correct and that the daughter would indeed be ‘sent back’ due to an invalid passport.

Being a child does not give any exemption over expiry dates or any other immigration requirements.

A childs passport is valid for 5 years

That this passport was apparently issued in March 2018 and expired in November 2023 shows that it had approx 8 months off the previous passport added to it (it was issued before extensions ceased to be granted)

However many countries – including many European ones – now ignore any extension period so as far as they are concerned the passoort expired in March 2023 (5 years after its issue date) and is no longer valid for entry into their country and given a 3 months validity rule would have been invalid for entry from around last December (depending on the 5 year after issue date)

[NorthernLass]

I’m not sure this is correct – the requirement that the passport needs to be less than 10 years old means a child’s passport will always comply with the EU entry requirements. An extension is not going to take it beyond this, so as long as there are still 3 months remaining it would be valid for entry.

The issue with adult passports is that extra added months take them beyond the 10 year rule. This wouldn’t apply to a child’s passport, which is only valid for 5 years to start with. I think this is where Ryanair got it wrong in the case mentioned above.

This is how it has been reported in the media:

“Passport validity rules for children visiting the EU
Children aged 16 and under will be issued a child’s passport. The maximum validity for this type of document is five years and nine months. This means that all children’s passports meet the first of the two passport requirements for third-country nationals travelling to EU countries, which are as follows.

issued within the 10 years before the date you enter the country (ie no more than 10 years old)
valid for at least three months after the day you plan to leave.
As such, so long as a child’s passport meets the second rule, it will be valid for travel to EU and Schengen area countries.”

[Tracey]

I agree with NorthernLass. the issue is that most EU countries won’t accept a passport over 10 years old, so any months left over from a previous passport and added to the new passport take you over the 10 years and it won’t be valid in that time. For child’s passports this won’t be an issue as 5 yrs plus a few months validity passed over from an old passport will never make them over 10 years old.

[yonasl]

Isn’t the problem here that the girl in question is already 19 and leaving away from her parents but we keep referring to her as “the child”?

[Froggee]

I don’t think the whole judgey thing is constructive or really what HFP is about. If you want to go flame people there are plenty other forums out there where that seems the norm.

[NorthLondon1]

The EU rules are that children’s passports are all valid, even if more than 5 years past the issue date as long as they have 3 months left on entry.
It is irrelevant that the holder is 18+. If it was issued the day before their 16th birthday and they were 21 it would be valid as long as it had 3 months left.

It looks like some of you also didn’t know that.

The staff at City airport did and she flew, but we were misled (being polite here!) By the ‘experts’ at BA who take no responsibility and haven’t apologised apart from ”we’re sorry that you didn’t have the best experience’ generic email.

[Littlewestiepup]

A child’s passport is valid 5 years and are issued up to 16. 15+5 = 20, possibly 21 with extra months added! They knew she was 19 with a child’s passport issued 5 years earlier. How much intelligence does it take to work out 19-5? If you can’t do that you really shouldn’t be working for customer service. Plus I said it was a child’s passport. They really didn’t understand the rules.

yonasl wrote:

Isn’t the problem here that the girl in question is already 19 and leaving away from her parents but we keep referring to her as “the child”?

[Anna]

I’m not sure why they would be expected to know the rules? It’s not their job. A lot of CS agents are based (or are from) outside the U.K. and EU so probably don’t have a clue about the passport rules.

[dougzz99]

Littlewestiepup wrote:

A child’s passport is valid 5 years and are issued up to 16. 15+5 = 20, possibly 21 with extra months added! They knew she was 19 with a child’s passport issued 5 years earlier. How much intelligence does it take to work out 19-5? If you can’t do that you really shouldn’t be working for customer service. Plus I said it was a child’s passport. They really didn’t understand the rules.

Why should they? It’s not an airline’s job to sanity check the legitimacy of your documents.