How to get reason for cancellation

[yonasl]

Hello, Wizzair flight cancelled a few weeks ago an hour before take off (20th May). I believe there was some stuff going on as my dad was stuck for 1-2hrs return flight from Sofia on a BA flight because of “German air control issues/strike”.

FlightRadar24 shows the plane that was supposed to fly us landing on time in LTN.

When I raised an EU/UK261 claim Wizzair simply replied the reason for the cancellation was “exceptional circumstances” but did not give more info. I have chased them for the details but is there some sort of official way of getting the reason for a delay short of going to CDER?

[NorthernLass]

If Wizzair are refusing compensation it looks as though the only option is CEDR (if they are signed up to that) or MCOL, and the airline would have to reveal the reason for the delay if the defended the case. I’m not sure how easy it is to enforce a ruling on a foreign airline though, do they have offices in the UK?
Strike action is NOT classed as exceptional circumstances; this has been upheld in previous rulings. You could try sending a letter before action reminding them of this, and advising them that your next step will be to take legal action.

[Rantallion]

I believe a German ATC strike would be an exceptional circumstance for UK261 purposes as it’s completely outside the control of the airline.

[NorthernLass]

I thought it was one of those sets of circumstances which had been held to be not extraordinary, but it may only relate to strike action by staff of the airline you’re flying on. I’m sure I’ve seen a successful case reported at some point.

[Lady London]

The airlines are required to enter reasons for cancellation into official aviation records.

I believe expertflyer may have access. I’m not sure if only for 48hrs, or only free of charge access for flights cancelled in past 48 hours. I suggest you get the flight number, route, date and post on flyertalk asking if anyone could access the officially filed reason for cancellation for you.

Strikes were ruled not to be exceptional circs exempting airlines from compensation. IIRC it may have been a Ryanair case. Like NorthernLass IIRC it was only not exceptional, if it was airline’s own staff striking. I would view that judgment limited in further application.

However after mechanical failures, staff sick/stuck in traffic/not turning up, and weather often not ruled exceptional if it turns out other operators’ flights were still operating flights on that route at the time you were cancelled by a ‘weather’ excuse… all of those have been solidly ruled out by repeated judgments, that said these are within the control of the airline so not exceptional… and Covid is now close to impossible for airlines to use an an excuse as no sudden recent deterioration…. the latest trendy excuse airlines are trying is ‘air traffic control limitations’.

However with ‘strike’ or ‘air traffic control’ claims to be exceptional circs, there is one big recurring issue in at least 50% of cases I’ve seen here. In fact I’d say the issue with airlines trying to claim these occurs in probably 75% of cases where they try it.

I will take a bet that tbe reason why your flight was cancelled was due to a problem of whatever type, with the incoming aurcraft. To be valid as an excuse, the exceptional circumstance has to be related to the flight itself, and problems with the incoming flight are not an exceptional circumstance on your flight, even if they would be with the incoming flight.

The legislation assumes airlines should have backup aircraft and crew ready even at farflung locations. Fair enough as otherwise airlines would just ‘daisychain’ delays always blaming a previous flight. Instead, the clever LCC’s like Easyjet ‘daisychain’ delay recoveries, taking aircraft off routes that are on time, so that lots of flights may be delayed a little as there is a daisychain of aircraft reallocation, but no flight gets delayed by over 2 hours, everyone is a little late but not late enough for compensation. Sounds like Wizzair did not have enough aircraft on the day to play this game.

So I think this is worth pursuing until it’s clear the problems were with the incoming flight and not your actual flight.

[ChrisC]

Wizz aAir use Aviation ADR as their arbitration service.

ADR have far more airlines signed up than CEDR.

CEDR is an arbitration company and should be be used a shorthand for any arbitration service

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/how-the-caa-can-help/alternative-dispute-resolution/

[meta]

You can claim at a point of departure or at a point of arrival. Sometimes you can also claim in the country of your main residence, for example if you had a connecting flight with non-EU, non-UK leg only being cancelled/delayed.

To be able to operate from UK, any foreign airline needs to be registered with service address. Just find info via Companies House.

Reason for cancellation can be found out for free via Expertflyer for 48hrs after cancellation or I think a week on paid version. Otherwise you can contact the landing airport to find out what has been filed. It takes a while though to obtain such info from the airport.

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[ChrisC]

ChrisC wrote:

CEDR is an arbitration company and should NOT be be used a shorthand for any arbitration service

Gah typo!

[yonasl]

Thank you all for your help!

So:

– FlyerTalk forum message never got a reply. This one is so much more active for certain, more in detail, queries

– Wizzair initially said they will pay no compensation as the cancellation was due to “exceptional Circumstances”. We emailed back asking for documented evidence. They replied 48 later saying they will give us EUR 400 …

PS:

I emailed Luton to ask for the reason of the cancellation:
– They replied they had asked Wizzair for the information and they replied “exceptional circumstances” and thatLuton only keeps track of the reason for the cancelation on their systems
– I asked what the reason was since they have that
– They replied “exceptional circumstances” … go figure
– Now that Wizzair is paying compensation I have asked Luton to confirm why their reason is “Exceptional” if the airline is obviously changing its mind about it. Seems unfair others querying the airport will get the wrong answer

… Once again, seems that unless you know your right airlines won’t proactively help

• This reply was modified 54 years, 4 months ago by .

[ChrisC]

Which board did you put your query on in flyer talk?

[Lady London]

Well done @yonasi. Thank you also for challenging Luton *****y airport. Cheap, low quality, lying, lazy, deceptive.

It just goes to show we must challenge, challenge, challenge.

If only there were punitive elenents in EU261 that would really hit airlines in the wallet for initial refusals, outright lying, ignoring claims and failure to pay out promptly. If only.

[meta]

Well done and congrats @yonasl.

Re:Luton Airport – probably some intern/clueless staff, they should just read out ATC logs, not ask WizzAir.

@LadyLondon – I always wondered, given CAA does not want to intervene, a legal action at higher courts could change this practice. You would need to work out the damages though.

As a side note, I was really surprised recently when Croatia Airlines responded to my compensation claim for a last-minute cancellation within 3 days and the amount was in my account the next day.