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Hi All,
Another query about cancelled flights that I was hoping to get some advise on. I checked the forum and there are lots of posts about BA and cancelled flights however, others have sensibly posted questions before taking action, which I did not.
In summary, I was offered rerouting 48 hours after a cancelled flight so booked a flight with another carrier myself. I then cancelled the BA flight on MMB, which I now know was not the thing to do. As far as I can tell the BA website does not mention forfeiting rights to compensation by requesting a refund. My question is whether I am still entitled to compensation?
Details:
– (Outbound) Heathrow to Lisbon at 12pm. Cancelled with 2.5 hours notice due to ‘operational constraints’. Rerouted onto the 14.55pm flight (new flight no.) that arrives at 14.50pm. I booked CE but BA were using the middle seat and I ended up in one.
– (Inbound) Lisbon to Heathrow at 3.55pm. Cancelled with 7 hours notice – same reason. This was at the start of BA’s week of meltdowns so the website and app were down for a few hours. When MMB was finally working I was offered a flight in 2 days time. I had to get back home so booked a flight on Easyjet for £270. I paid £70 for the original BA flight.
Essentially, I would like the £200 extra that I paid. It has been 7 weeks since I submitted claims for both flights but have not received a response from BA. I believe I am at least entitled to compensation for the outbound flight so the next step would be to write to BA before engaging CEDR etc?
There was a thread a few days ago started by someone in a similar position to you (I thihk it was an IOM flight). Opinions differed, as I recall,
Just to clarify, which flight did you cancel on MMB, the original one or the rescheduled one? I think if the latter you would technically still be entitled to compo as this would relate to the original journey cancelled be BA. You needed to get home so you were justified in booking the alternative as well – though you might need to show that you tried to contact BA to ask for a better option than the one they gave you if pursuing a separate re-routing claim.
Your timings aren’t clear outbound. If you arrived +3hrs late then you get the compo cash. I imagine BA are inundated at the moment so I’d wait a bit longer for this
Inbound you have the right to refund or rerouting. You took the refund option and BA has no further obligation to you. Travel insurance may be an option here . You should still get the compensation though ? Though it may be helpful to have proof of the options offered not being within a few hrs
You could also try asking for compensation for being sat in a middle seat, suspect this would be some Avios
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
More of a general question but what is that right procedure?
– got flight from A to B on day 0 cancelled and rebooked to day 1 that you don’t want to take
I have seen different opinions and things people have been doing. So let’s see if I got this right:
1. Accepting the new flight will forfeit any compensation and refund of any kind (it is a new flight so you are not technically delayed)
2. You can get a refund and try to book something else
3. You can use the airline website to select another flight they propose
4. You can contact them and manage to get on another airline
5. You can, after failing to reach them or get to an agreement, buy another ticket and hope they refund that
So questions:
– in which case 1-5 do you have the right to get compensation if you are late to your destination by 3-4hrs (depends)?
– if you do 5) what do you do to your original booking? Do you accept the new schedule but do not show? Do you cancel? What is the right process as the airline may claim you simply gave up and you are not their problem
– any other scenario I missed?
Thanks!
What is not clear is from OP when the flight was cancelled by BA. 14 days or more before the flight or less than 14 days before the flight. This will determine the rights under EU/UK261.
1. Accepting the new flight will forfeit any compensation and refund of any kind (it is a new flight so you are not technically delayed)
Not true. You are due compensation if flight was cancelled within 14 days and new flight arrives after the temporal thresholds.
1. Accepting the new flight will forfeit any compensation and refund of any kind (it is a new flight so you are not technically delayed)
Not true. You are due compensation if flight was cancelled within 14 days and new flight arrives after the temporal thresholds.
Agree. I did a bit more reading as I wasn’t 100% sure myself but the remedy (refund/reroute) and the compo are two seperate things. It should be easy with a BA booking too as they’d usually rebook you so it’d be recorded how many hours (/days!) later they were planning to get you home
You do forfeit the right to the cost of the rerouting though if you take a refund, so the OP still lost out but 2 lots of compo should soften the blow and a potential travel insurance claim there as well
@Londoner the timings aren’t clear your outbound flight, but if you arrived three hours+ late on the rerouted flight you are entitled to compensation of £350
For the return flight, as you went and made your own arrangements your gave up your rights both to compensation and duty of care and if you did not cancel the BA flight but were a no-show you might not get that refund back either. This is set out in 4.2 of the EU261 Interpretative Guildelines:- “However, where an air carrier can demonstrate that when the passenger has accepted to give his or her personal contact details, it has contacted a passenger and sought to provide the assistance required by Article 8, but the passenger has nonetheless made his or her own assistance or re-routing arrangements, then the air carrier may conclude that it is not responsible for any additional costs the passenger has incurred and may decide not to reimburse them.” which will likely still apply in practice.
You are reliant on BA’s goodwill or insurance (? BAPP travel inconvenience) as the law is not on your side. It has been reported in recent weeks of BA paying up in one case on a return from Austria after much pressure, and EasyJet refusing to pay up re an IOM trip where the pax booked his own flight and EasyJet won the ADR.
More of a general question but what is that right procedure?
– got flight from A to B on day 0 cancelled and rebooked to day 1 that you don’t want to take
I have seen different opinions and things people have been doing. So let’s see if I got this right:
1. Accepting the new flight will forfeit any compensation and refund of any kind (it is a new flight so you are not technically delayed)
you still get the compo if you’re delayed past the thresholds. FROM Europe/on an EU carrier this can also apply if you have to travel +1hr earlier. This was a new ruling in the EU in December so would not apply to BA from the UK
2. You can get a refund and try to book something else
Yes
3. You can use the airline website to select another flight they propose
Yes4. You can contact them and manage to get on another airline
Yes. Even if they do not agree, have them note your preference, that they refused and that you’ll be using your right to reroute regardless
5. You can, after failing to reach them or get to an agreement, buy another ticket and hope they refund thatYes
So questions:– in which case 1-5 do you have the right to get compensation if you are late to your destination by 3-4hrs (depends)?
All
– if you do 5) what do you do to your original booking? Do you accept the new schedule but do not show? Do you cancel? What is the right process as the airline may claim you simply gave up and you are not their problemIdeally contact them and discuss the rerouting option and if it isn’t satisfactory have them delete any unwanted sectors, but leave the ticket. DO NOT CANCEL. DO NOT ASK FOR A REFUND unless you a) don’t want to travel at all or b)your rerouting option is cheaper (or near enough that you want to take the hassle free route!)
It varies by airline, Easyjet / Ryanair each flight is it’s own “entity” and isn’t so critical. If you don’t take the outbound you can take the return no problem. On BA and most legacy airlines ideally you’d always have any sectors deleted that you won’t fly. A rebooked sector isn’t confirmed and in theory can be safely missed but be careful that you haven’t accidently accepted it/confirmed it in MMB.
If it’s your outbound flight it is especially important to have spoken to them if you’re planning on using the return, though again, in theory, missing an unconfirmed rebooked outbound sector shouldn’t impact your return.
However your rights depending on you giving the airline an opportunity to assist. So ensure that if you cannot speak to the airline you’ve got got good evidence that you tried – phone records, Twitter DMs etc.
– any other scenario I missed?
Thanks!
@SamG – unfortunately, although it seems quite ridiculous, the law doesn’t take account of when BA would have got you home if you had accepted their re-routing. If the pax had accepted to travel two days later, he would have been entitled to the €400 compo, plus two nights in a hotel, taxis, telephone/internet and all his food so a total cost to BA of c. €1000. The fact that the pax doing his own thing saved BA this potential cost doesn’t get you anywhere per the statute! Makes no sense, but I think many have suffered from this anomaly.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
@SamG – unfortunately, although it seems quite ridiculous, the law doesn’t take account of when BA would have got you home if you had accepted their re-routing. If the pax had accepted to travel two days later, he would have been entitled to the €400 compo, plus two nights in a hotel, taxis, telephone/internet and all his food so a total cost to BA of c. €1000. The fact that the pax doing his own thing saved BA this potential cost doesn’t get you anywhere per the statute! Makes no sense, but I think many have suffered from this anomaly.
I’ll dig out the links I found later but it seems like you still get the compensation unless they offered a reroute within a couple of hours. I thought the same, if you take a refund then that is it, but seems not.
This is Citizens Advice for example (bolding mine)
If your flight is cancelled
You have the legal right to either:
a full refund – including other flights from the airline that you won’t use in the same booking such as onward or return flightsa replacement flight to get you to your destination
if you’re part-way through a journey and you don’t want a replacement flight, you also have a right to a flight back to the airport you originally departed from.
Ask for a refund or replacement at the airport if you can. If not, you can claim from the airline later.
You also have a legal right to:
help with costs – if the cancellation delays you 2 or more hours
compensation – if you’d be delayed 2 or more hours by the replacement flight offered and you were given less than 2 weeks’ notice
What is not clear is from OP when the flight was cancelled by BA. 14 days or more before the flight or less than 14 days before the flight. This will determine the rights under EU/UK261.
Hi – both flights were cancelled by BA on the day of the flight. 2.5 hours notice for the outbound and 7 hours notice for the inbound.
There was a thread a few days ago started by someone in a similar position to you (I thihk it was an IOM flight). Opinions differed, as I recall,
Just to clarify, which flight did you cancel on MMB, the original one or the rescheduled one? I think if the latter you would technically still be entitled to compo as this would relate to the original journey cancelled be BA. You needed to get home so you were justified in booking the alternative as well – though you might need to show that you tried to contact BA to ask for a better option than the one they gave you if pursuing a separate re-routing claim.
Hi – I cancelled the original (LIS to LHR) flight on MMB after I booked a new flight with Easyjet. I did not accept the reroute option that was 48 hours later. I was concerned that I may be seen as a ‘no show’ and would not be able to get a refund after the original departure time.
With the outbound flight (LHR to LIS), I accepted the reroute on MMB as I was offered the next flight available on the same day.
@Londoner the timings aren’t clear your outbound flight, but if you arrived three hours+ late on the rerouted flight you are entitled to compensation of £350
For the return flight, as you went and made your own arrangements your gave up your rights both to compensation and duty of care and if you did not cancel the BA flight but were a no-show you might not get that refund back either. This is set out in 4.2 of the EU261 Interpretative Guildelines:- “However, where an air carrier can demonstrate that when the passenger has accepted to give his or her personal contact details, it has contacted a passenger and sought to provide the assistance required by Article 8, but the passenger has nonetheless made his or her own assistance or re-routing arrangements, then the air carrier may conclude that it is not responsible for any additional costs the passenger has incurred and may decide not to reimburse them.” which will likely still apply in practice.
You are reliant on BA’s goodwill or insurance (? BAPP travel inconvenience) as the law is not on your side. It has been reported in recent weeks of BA paying up in one case on a return from Austria after much pressure, and EasyJet refusing to pay up re an IOM trip where the pax booked his own flight and EasyJet won the ADR.
Thanks. What I am trying to understand is the difference between duty of care and compensation. I understand that I essentially waived the duty of care rights for the return flight but I thought the compensation would still apply as the flight was cancelled on the day of departure.
For the outbound flight I took note of the time the rerouted plan landed, which was 2 hours and 55 minutes after the original flight was due to land. Reading up on this, it seems that the delay may be calculated when the doors open so it may just be over the 3 hour threshold. If not, 50% of the £350 would almost cover my incurred costs.
@Londoner – re your outbound, you need to ascertain the precise arrival time as it is so close to three hours, and I would set about this now, prior to BA’s response in case that is negative. I am hoping that others can advise how best to obtain the relevant evidence.
For the return, some on here do say you are still entitled to the compensation if you make your own arrangements, but I don’t see that being clear and neither the statute nor the Interpretative Guidelines offer specific support. If you make your own independent arrangements to go on another flight following a delay, you don’t get the compo. For cancellation?
Thank you so much @samG really feel like we should build some sort of decision tree available to everyone to answer these questions that keep coming.
Rather than reinventing the wheel I suggest reading the excellent comprehensive thread on EC261 over at FlyerTalk.
The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
It has answers to frequently asked questions and if you’re registered with the site you can ask questions and other flyertalkers will respond.
Alternatively ask here if the guide and posts don’t cover your query.
Rather than reinventing the wheel I suggest reading the excellent comprehensive thread on EC261 over at FlyerTalk.
The 2021/22 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
It has answers to frequently asked questions and if you’re registered with the site you can ask questions and other flyertalkers will respond.
Alternatively ask here if the guide and posts don’t cover your query.
This is quite a long thread but interesting thanks:
I still miss a more concise article as the thread is the back and forth (like in here) of multiple people/cases/scenarios.
What I believe we should have is a more specific article that splits the different situations and what should one do (for instance most don’t make it clear you should not accept any options or would be forfeiting some of your rights).
The trouble is that although there are similarities in each situation there are often variables that can make decisions and actions different.
Generally though the airlines should always have duty of care obligations and should proactively remind customers of their rights, the reality being they hardly ever do this in practice unless passengers reminds them. So understanding EC261, particularly articles 5 to 8 is useful.
Also never rush to do anything. Usually that is when people make mistakes and forfeit their rights. Also airlines are pretty good at rescheduling passengers particularly if on one PNR on a multi-leg itinerary. Often if you wait, you will find that the issue resolves itself. Plus it gives you time to identify better options which you can go back to the airline and suggest. Remember it is your right and choice to re-route, or refund or travel at a later date, airlines often unilaterally do something but you do not have to accept it. But you should also give the airline the opportunity to try to resolve the situation. It is only in cases where they don’t that DIY comes into action but have evidence first of the airline doing nothing, eg no cancellation email or text, no options offered, no duty of care given etc. Also record your attempts to contact the airlines, times and dates etc.
Also remember that you usually have one go at free changes so use the free change opportunity wisely. After that you get into fare re-pricing and reward seat availability etc.
You are entitled to compensation and duty of care even if you made your own arrangements provided that you can demonstrate that a) you informed the airline and can show evidence that you did b) the airline refused to accommodate you ´at earliest convenience’ (this is direct wording from EU261). Airline does not get a choice to re-route you days later on their own service if there are other airlines flying on the same day or earlier. You can also show that by rebooking yourself you have mitigated the extra costs for the airline. I had this with BA before where they tried to put me from Saturday to a Monday flight. Successfully claimed and got compensation plus duty of care. Legal didn’t even try to fight it after LBA.
If you have not tried to contact the airline at all, then it won’t fly, but if you did and weren’t informed fully of your rights under Article 15 (2) you can go back and request it.
All
As a data point – I received an email from BA yesterday informing me that I was entitled to 400 euros for the cancelled outbound flight. The email also noted I would receive a (TBC) monetary compensation for being seated in the middle seat of the CE cabin. This was 4 days shy of the 8 week period so I am glad that I do not need to go down the CEDR route.
No response on the second cancelled flight but at least I will not be out of pocket.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
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