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In many cases more then than they’d have to pay for downgrading someone on a sale cash fare – e.g. off peak to Miami works out at just over £1K/person for a one-way downgrade from Club World roughly equivalent to what would be payable on a £3K return cash fare by the time you take the taxes into consideration (and assuming both legs are similarly priced, taxes excluded).
Of course it wouldn’t cost them anything like that if they paid up in Avios without the claimant having to resort to CEDR…
TGLoyalty wrote:
It’s more like – 35k to 45k and £200 per seat vs £700-800.No one is paying £800 for a seat in J, this week, DXB-LHR
This is the kind of thing that completely puts me off putting in the effort to locate business class availability only for BA dump me in PE. Another nail in the coffin of me using avios points for flights
This is the kind of thing that completely puts me off putting in the effort to locate business class availability only for BA dump me in PE. Another nail in the coffin of me using avios points for flights
Well from a selfish point of view that’s one less person getting Avios seats. From a practical point of view your not doing something because of a relatively minor chance you’ll be downgraded. Thousands of people fly economy every day and live to tell the tale.
Well from a selfish point of view that’s one less person getting Avios seats. From a practical point of view your not doing something because of a relatively minor chance you’ll be downgraded. Thousands of people fly economy every day and live to tell the tale.
For what it is worth I’ve been collecting and redeeming BA Miles/Avios for over 20 years and never once been downgraded. In particular, we’ve done numerous (probably nearly 20) 2for1/voucher upgraded Business and First class flights over the past 15 years.
The worst that BA did once was dump us out of our selected First window seats which we”d had for months, into centre seats but still in the F cabin, just before our flight date. First world problems and all that….
TGLoyalty wrote:
It’s more like – 35k to 45k and £200 per seat vs £700-800.No one is paying £800 for a seat in J, this week, DXB-LHR
£700-800 is 75% of the cost of the return sector less actual taxes (what they have to pay as was the Avios/Cash) I think that’s completely realistic especially as part of a BA holiday.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
Out of interest, is the fare difference not also payable on top of the compensation? Surely the compensation is exactly that to cover the inconvenience and the fare difference is due because the product provided is different to what was purchased?
The fare difference between J and Y is often significantly more than 75% of the J fare so doesn’t seem fair.
Out of interest, is the fare difference not also payable on top of the compensation? Surely the compensation is exactly that to cover the inconvenience and the fare difference is due because the product provided is different to what was purchased?
The fare difference between J and Y is often significantly more than 75% of the J fare so doesn’t seem fair.
Not within the scope of UK/EC261. The comparison, for BA at least, will normally be between W and J and I suspect that it is rare to be involuntarily downgraded if you’ve paid enough for a J fare for it to have been more than 4x the equivalent W fare at the time of booking. It makes sense for the airline to target people who’ve paid less and are therefore due less compensation.
Establishing what the equivalent W fare would have been at the time of booking, taking into account things like change and refund restrictions, would likely be difficult in any case, which is probably why EC261 sets percentage refunds. On a like-for-like basis for the J fare to be more than 4x more is probably also less common than you might think.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
Out of interest, is the fare difference not also payable on top of the compensation? Surely the compensation is exactly that to cover the inconvenience and the fare difference is due because the product provided is different to what was purchased?
The fare difference between J and Y is often significantly more than 75% of the J fare so doesn’t seem fair.
There is NO compensation for a downgrade.
The regulation specifically states ‘reimbursement’ and then a % based on the flight distance.
The % reimbursement method is a simple method for calculation and is less easy to manipulate than using the fare difference.
Which Y fare do you take for example? The cheapo fare bucket available months ago or the full fat Y fare bucket of the day the downgrade took place. Airlines would simply use the fare that leads to the lowest payout.
One of the advantages of EU/UK261 methodology is the simplicity of it.
For example for a delayed flight of X hours for a Y length then you get Z fixed amount no matter the fare you paid.
Same with downgrade- a fixed % depending on the flight length
Much easier to calculate and you can’t manipulate it by picking and chosing which fare bucket to use.
- This reply was modified 55 years, 4 months ago by .
But how many people will go through the hassle of CEDR and a small claim if they are downgraded and don’t know what they are entitled to. I suspect overall it is cheaper for them to bump passengers down that have paid with a 241 in the hope that 50k Avios and £400 in taxes as opposed to the £4k per seat, they are currently selling for, is accepted.No passenger in their right mind should accept it and I believe most would seek advice online and see they have a case via CEDR/MCOL.
I’m surprised they continue to use this line when they know they will lose at CEDR/MCOL – the final deadlock letter/email is written knowing it’ll fail and CEDR should just decline to accept them.
No one has actually paid £10k to fly business to Dubai so you 50k + £400 vs £4K is well off.
It’s more like – 35k to 45k and £200 per seat vs £700-800.
Lol I doubt many people are paying £800 for a seat in J from Dubai to London this week 🤣🤣🤣
The experience of the OP in this thread has made me paranoid (and obsessed) already about my flight later this year. It’s a 32 seat Gatwick CW cabin and although only the window pairs are “reserved” so far, BA are only selling 3 more seats in booking class C or 4 in J. This has come down from 9/9/6, 7/6/3, 5/4/2 over the last couple of weeks. (Booking classes J/C/D)
Whilst it’s not oversold yet, when I see the tickets going this quickly, I do get worried we’ll eventually get singled out for downgrade as we are on a 2-4-1. I booked this before the rise in TFCs too, so more reason for BA to see me as a cheap downgrade option!
Trying to be positive:
Given not many seats have been reserved, I do wonder if, by chance there are a high volume of low status flyers (like me) booked onto this flight. This could mean that paying for seating might make enough difference for the cabin to stick?I’m wondering if my best strategy is to do absolutely nothing and view it that BA owe me nothing anyway, or to cash out some Nectar and pay for seating (which didn’t work for poor OP and wife) as and when I see further seats becoming reserved in the cabin.
(I’m not hugely worried where we sit – it almost seems like an additional tax to prevent a downgrade and I’m playing right into their hands!)
I wouldn’t worry about how quickly tickets have sold over the last few weeks. Lots of people use the Easter break as a spur to book their holidays
Also based on the last set of figures you gave BA are only selling 4 seats in CW (the J4) of which 3 are in the C bucket. C is a subset of J not inaddition to it.
Despite the number of posts about downgrades they only happen on a very small number of flights and it’s not something I think you should worry about months and months in advance and nor would I spend more on selecting seats.
I wouldn’t worry about how quickly tickets have sold over the last few weeks. Lots of people use the Easter break as a spur to book their holidays
Also based on the last set of figures you gave BA are only selling 4 seats in CW (the J4) of which 3 are in the C bucket. C is a subset of J not inaddition to it.
Despite the number of posts about downgrades they only happen on a very small number of flights and it’s not something I think you should worry about months and months in advance and nor would I spend more on selecting seats.
Thanks, I realise it is just 4 seats being sold.
I guess it is also about 6 months from the flight, so another prompt for people to start booking. I won’t spend any cash on this yet and will try not to worry. If we were in a position to do annual trips like this, I’d worry even less, but I can’t see us repeating this trip for a very long time. However, in grand scheme of things, its not very significant.For the 3rd time
£800 compo is about £1100 per sector AFTER actual taxes. Which is about £2600-2700 return.
Hop on google flights you can buy flights for that right now (without a sale). In fact £2,800 you can fly out business with BA this weekend
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