Missed connection tonight

[Angelamc11]

I’d appreciate some thought on tonight’s escapade from those familiar with UK261.

I missed my connection to ATH tonight, when I had a 1 hr connection time from a domestic flight. This was for several reasons. BA app says we departed at 4 mins late. Which is untrue as we were still at the gate 15 mins after departure time. I know there is taxi time but we took off at least 10 mins later than I would have expected.

Pilot announced around 20 mins to landing that we were in a holding pattern to land at LHR and would have some delay and be bussed to the domestic arrivals. Before that point I was still hopeful as we had made up some ground. We then did a touch and go when we came in for a very bumpy landing. We seemed to hit the ground with quite a thud, must admit it was a bit scary. Pilot announced this was due to winds.

My flight is rearranged for tomorrow. I was only in Athens on business and originally due to be home tomorrow night. I’ve had to rearrange remaining 3 flights and will now be home Thursday with 2 unexpected nights at LHR.

Am I likely to receive UK261 for either the outbound or inbound? TIA

[NorthernLass]

It depends on the reason for the delayed departure – if it’s weather-related then no compensation is due.

Was your trip on one booking (I.e. so the tight connection was allowed by BA’s booking system)? If so then you should be able to claim duty of care for extra hotel costs and meals.

If you’ve had to arrange extra nights in Athens for business then I think that’ll be down to your insurance.

[Angelamc11]

AFAIK weather was fine leaving Belfast and most of the delay was due to a combination of leaving late and then being bussed. We landed within 5 minutes of the touch and go.

Yes all in one booking. I’m having to fly in and out of ATH same day, which I’m not looking forward to.

[cabal of rabid baboons]

I’d imagine that you’re a shoo-in for UK261 outbound with the unexpected hotels and meals covered if no alternative flights offered.

[LD27]

I was standing on SW trains platform this afternoon (not far as the crow flies from LHR) and it was extremely windy. So much so that after a couple of very strong gusts a number of us found somewhere to shelter as we were concerned about being blown onto the line.

[Colin MacKinnon]

Had a similar situation in December: EDI-LHR-JFK. Avios flights. The only route offered for avios when we booked was the last flight to JFK and a 60 min connection.

There had been some really horrid weather, and it was forecast to get worse as the day went on. Of course, our EDI-LHR was late getting in, took ages to board and then, as we approached LHR, the pilot said the airport was going into bad weather ops, so we’d have to hold. So missed connection.

We had to arrange own hotel and were auto rebooked next morning.

I thought a 261 claim had no chance, but we followed HfP advice and made two claims: one for the meal and hotel (which still hasn’t been paid) and another for 261.

For the 261 claim, I just said our flight from Edinburgh was late, so we missed our connection. We were rebooked on to a flight (BA5678) which arrived 14 hours after the scheduled arrival time for our original flight (BA1234).

The 261 was paid within a fortnight.

[Angelamc11]

Ty for the advice very helpful. The wind at Lhr was only the icing on the cake. The pilot said we would be delayed landing/arriving due to the missed time slot and being put in the holding queue, getting bussed, so the wind was really not the issue in the delay. I’ll put it in and see how I go. TY

[cabal of rabid baboons]

It’s a shame the extra two nights weren’t in Athens as BA will be on the hook for accommodation and meals.

[JDB]

The expression ‘touch and go’ is more commonly used for a planned manoeuvre or training. What occurred would be described by ATC as a ‘go around’ and these have been very frequent at LHR in the last two weeks.

The proximate cause of the delay was the go around so it seems a little churlish to be asking BA for compensation when they took an emergency action for your safety.

As a regular traveller, a one hour connection time in winter and with the forecast weather was incredibly high risk, notwithstanding the MCT. It’s almost as if one hoped BA would have to pick up some hotel and food costs. The earlier little elements of delay were entirely routine and the weather made it highly likely/almost certain the arrival rate would be reduced.

I wouldn’t have scheduled client meetings in Athens on that basis because I hate letting anyone down, let alone a client.

You ask about compensation for the outbound and also the inbound. There hasn’t yet been any cancellation or delay for the inbound, so what would the basis be for any compensation for this flight rearranged voluntarily by you?

[Angelamc11]

@JDB there are many incorrect assumptions in your post. There is nothing I would want more than to be at home having dinner with my family. Anybody who frequently spends time alone in hotels, knows this is not a holiday or something to hope for. Some of us consider that time invaluable.

My business in ATH doesn’t involve a meeting with a client – there is more to business than meeting people.

I am arriving in ATH a day late and arriving home a day late. At considerable expense and inconvenience.

Leaving late and then getting bussed certainly took up more time than the 5 minute go around, which the pilot termed a touch and go.

[JDB]

@Angelamc11 – if you were on BA1417, the go around was actually around 13 minutes according to the records – 16.28 to 16.41. Absent that, your flight would have arrived on schedule. The weather has been terrible at LHR for over two weeks and today’s winds accurately predicted, so the likelihood of a delay was very high indeed and there is a reason why the MCT has been increased to 75 minutes. Most other flights around the time of yours unsurprisingly had a hold given the reduced flow rate and a Korean Airlines flight had a go around within minutes of yours.

My point was simply that it was very foreseeable such that all that inconvenience and cost could so easily have been avoided, so it seems a bit harsh to ask BA for £350 for something that really shouldn’t be pinned on them.

[Angelamc11]

Flights are not just as easily cancelled and reorganised when the weather doesn’t suit us, as you are suggesting. If only life was that simple. However, I asked for opinions and while I disagree somewhat with yours, I thank you anyway. It’s always good to have different perspectives.

To add, we almost landed at half 4. Regardless of the go around, we were being bussed to arrivals. It would never have been feasible.

[HampshireHog]

So why did you book a connection with only 60 mins?

[SamG]

MCT domestic to Europe is still 60mins. Though I agree with the others, you’re asking for trouble booking it!

All you can do is put in a short factual claim and see what they say. The delay and the hold were also likely due to a reduced flow rate due to the weather so I can’t see you getting any compensation. You are owed your duty of care outbound t least.

Consequential losses from further changes of plans likely wouldn’t be owed so you’d need to try claim those from BA or your insurer but I’d do those in separate claims to avoid delaying the first

[Angelamc11]

Perhaps I’ve been lucky, but this is the first the 60 min connection was an issue for me. Normally, these flights arrive in 10/15 minutes early from BHD. From row 1, I’m usually in the arrival hall very quickly.

[JDB]

@SamG – the T5 MCT from domestic to any international flight increased to 75 minutes last month. While that is the published minimum, given the weather yesterday and, in fact, on many days so far this year even 75 mins isn’t very realistic.

[Alex G]

SamG wrote:

MCT domestic to Europe is still 60mins.

Not according to BA.

https://www.britishairways.com/content/information/airport-information/flight-connections#:~:text=Minimum%20connecting%20times,and%20international%20flights)%3A%2075%20minutes

And personally, given the need to be at the gate 20 minutes prior to departure, I wouldn’t be happy with anything less than two hours.

[strickers]

@JDB A go-around is not an emergency procedure, it is very much considered a normal manoeuvre, albeit an uncommon one. It can happen for a number of reasons, weather as in this case, debris on the runway, another aircraft not clearing the runway in time etc. If compensation was due for a weather related go-around then there is a risk that pilots would continue to land from an unstable approach, the consequences of this could be catastrophic, most landing based runway excursions are in some way attributed to unstable approaches. So believe me, if weather causes the aircraft to become unstable during the latter stages of the approach you really want the pilot to go-around and set up for another go. In this case, allowing for some educated conjecture, the approach became unstable at a very late stage causing the pilot to touch down further along the runway than is normal, they elected to follow standard operating procedures, carried out a baulked landing procedure and went around for a second attempt.

Notwithstanding the frustration of the OP, no compensation is due in this case although duty of care and rerouting do apply which BA seem to have complied with.

[Angelamc11]

HampshireHog wrote:

So why did you book a connection with only 60 mins?

I didn’t plan to respond to this post, but considering I am extra cheerful this morning after making my way in the rain, wind, cold and darkness to T5 at 4.30 am, I’ll give it a go.

Obviously, I was hoping to miss the connection and spend two nights away from my family, bored and lonely at a LHR hotel. I’m a huge fan of enforced solitude. There’s nothing quite like 3 days of plane food, airport food and hotel food to get the gastric juices flowing. But of course, the food might be free, which of course makes it taste sweeter. Oh and did I mention how much I love getting up in the middle of the night to travel in miserable weather? I guess the prospect of flying to and from ATH in one day was just irresistible. I can’t wait to experience how that feels. Meanwhile I’ve the joys of rearranging work plans, explaining why I can’t babysit my lovely niece tomorrow, letting people down and facing a backlog of work when I get home.

The answer to your very helpful question, has nothing to do with work schedules, costs or previous experience of these connections. That would be too obvious.

Thanks for your contribution. Apologies if my post is a bit sharp, but I’m feeling inordinately grumpy and unhappy this morning. Apologies to everyone else, I don’t normally vent.

[executiveclubber]

Angela sorry you’re being piled on… if a carrier offers you a ticket you’d expect them to do the maths and get you there. You don’t need to justify your reasons at all. Hope you get your duty of care money soon. You could add a separate complaint to BA that they sold you the ticket without enough time to transit — infrequent flyers could easily get caught up by this.

[NorthernLass]

I would also be grumpy at 4.30 am, especially in this weather! That’s a long flight to be doing twice in quick rotation. I’m always really intrigued about what people do on business abroad, probably because my own career was so unglamorous and involved no travel whatsoever 😂

As per @executiveclubber, I regularly see infrequent travellers getting caught out by BA connection times from MAN as the rate of delays and cancellations is appalling – BHD must be a better all-round operation!

[strickers]

Angela, hope you achieve today what you need to and get home to your family this evening.

[Alex G]

@executiveclubber

BA are getting her there. And connections are not guaranteed.

What intrigues me is that in June last year, BA announced that they were increasing the MCT at T5 to 75 minutes. According to an article on HfP, BA should have stopped selling flights with connections of less than 75 minutes and people who had already booked should have been rebooked.

If BA failed to offer to rebook Angela, or allowed her to book a flight with less than 75 minutes to connect, then I think that gives grounds for a complaint.

https://www.headforpoints.com/2023/06/23/british-airways-increasing-minimum-connection-times-at-heathrow/

[Angelamc11]

@NorthernLass There’s definitely nothing glamorous about this trip. I’m returning borrowed research materials such as original documents and books that are too valuable to be sent by courier.

I’m off on a real holiday next week, when our schools have the midterm break. We are going to a place called Whisper, north of Vancouver. For the kids it’s a snowboarding trip and for me, it’s a writing retreat in beautiful surroundings.

[Angelamc11]

strickers wrote:

Angela, hope you achieve today what you need to and get home to your family this evening.

Thank you, but unfortunately I get back into LHR late tonight and won’t get back to BHD till tomorrow morning. Then it’s straight to the office from the airport. The idea of another night in LHR is killing me!