Missed connection tonight

[strickers]

@Angelamc11 Ouch, as someone who spends a lot of nights in hotels with work I can empathise.

[TooPoorToBeHere]

NorthernLass wrote:

so unglamorous and involved no travel

In a past (career) life I organically achieved HH diamond through stays at the Hilton Watford.

There’s unglamorous and there’s unglamorous…

[ekposh]

If BA allowed OP to purchase the ticket with the 60 min MCT, then its totally reasonable to expect to make it, whether people think it’s asking for trouble or otherwise. I don’t understand the responses here.

Saying that, I assume BA will claim weather and your 261 will be rejected.

[SamG]

JDB wrote:

@SamG – the T5 MCT from domestic to any international flight increased to 75 minutes last month. While that is the published minimum, given the weather yesterday and, in fact, on many days so far this year even 75 mins isn’t very realistic.

Their website may say that but it isn’t what they coded in their systems (by my interpretation anyway!)

The exact rules are

STANDARD.D/D…D/I…I/D…I/I.
ONLINE .30 1.00 1.30 1.30
OFFLINE .30 1.00 1.30 1.30
** OR * ARE ALL
BA-BA DI 1.15 FLT 1300 – 1499 – FLT 1 – 299 TRM 5 – 5
09JAN24 – INF
BA-BA DI 1.15 FLT 1300 – 1499 – FLT 1000 – 1299 TRM 5 – 5
09JAN24 – INF

So a connection off of a domestic onto a T5 Europe flight in the flight number range BA300 – BA999 e.g. Athens BA634 will book with a 60mins connection . Indeed they are selling the OPs combo with a 60 minute connection next Tuesday

[TooPoorToBeHere]

AIUI connections off a domestic are intended to have the shorter MCT – due to no need for passport check + security. Agree this is unpublished.

[Alex G]

ekposh wrote:

If BA allowed OP to purchase the ticket with the 60 min MCT, then its totally reasonable to expect to make it, whether people think it’s asking for trouble or otherwise. I don’t understand the responses here.

My comments are based on knowledge and experience.

[The real Swiss Tony]

I don’t like the “pile on” to the OP here either – and it’s yet again the same instigator.

If BA is selling a ticket, they’re doing so on the expectation that the customer will meet the connection. It means their flight ranks above an alternative route (via AMS, FRA etc) that would otherwise be faster. BA also factor in the cost of meeting these duty of care/comp payments to every ticket. You’re essentially being forced to buy an insurance policy, so you should have no qualms in looking to extract full value from that.

I think we can agree that 261 isn’t due – the weather was bad – but duty of care is. The day return to ATH sounds horrible, you have my sympathy both for that and two bonus nights in an airport hotel. Safe travels.

[JDB]

@The real Swiss Tony – if someone had asked the question, I’m travelling Belfast-Heathrow-Athens on BA and I’m being offered a 1hr connection, is that enough time, what would your response have been? I think that the overwhelming response would have been ‘too risky’.

I recognise that the OP has flown this route successfully before, but it seems unrealistic to expect, once again to arrive 10-15mins early or not to expect a bus, which is quite common for domestics. Also, when the consequences (personal cost and inconvenience) of missing the connection are as great as the OP describes, that ought to be considered when planning. On the day, given the bad weather, changing arrangements at the start (ie getting an earlier flight) might have created less cost and disruption.

I agree that BA shouldn’t sell the flight with a 1hr connection but for an experienced traveller taking that risk it seems rather rich to expect to be baled out by statute, plus hope for compensation and complain about the highly foreseeable outcome. Someone took a risk and it went wrong.

I wouldn’t have commented on the original story but for the earlier responses and further OP comment saying eg the “touch and go” only added 5 mins when that was factually incorrect by a significant margin and seemed like an attempt to change the narrative away from the real cause of the delay. The enquiry about compensation for the inbound also felt rather greedy.

I may have incorrectly inferred that the greater concern at the time was justifying the decision and how much am I going to get for that, but that was my reading of the two posts.

I do actually have considerable sympathy for the OP’s situation, but personally, if I took that risk I would also accept that it was my decision/mistake and the consequences are on me.

[executiveclubber]

I don’t think it’s helpful to get people twisted up in semantics for the sake of certain people on this site proving they’re right about every small detail.

[Angelamc11]

I honestly have to laugh at this idea you can get up in the morning, check the weather forecast and decide to change flights, easily at that. In my world, I have commitments, places I need to be, things I need to organise both on the day of travel, and at the time of booking travel to hope things go smoothly.

As a regular traveller from Belfast for quite a long time, it is my experience these flights arrive early, and very very rarely get bussed. I doubt that purely luck. It’s a small efficient airport.

Perhaps the travel could have been better thought through, though drawing from previous experiences I did not foresee any risk.

My original post was written at a time of frustration and dread at the 48 hours ahead, and looking some positivity I guess. My curiosity in the question was more related to what happens with UK261 when several factors lead to delay.

As for unequivocally arguing the delay was caused by weather this is rubbish. Even taking JDB’s timing of the go around that equates to 13 minutes. The combined delay in leaving and being bussed was much longer than 13 minutes.

[Angelamc11]

To add, the 13 minute go around also includes time to manoeuvre to the remote stand. Something we needed to do anyway. It was not my intention to deceive in saying it added about 5 minutes on. That is factual.

The problem with some of the responses and pile on, is their basis rely on assumptions. It can be tedious correcting those assumptions. It’s also surprising that those who advocate for remaining factual when constructing arguments, suddenly resort to assumptions and distractions.

[HampshireHog]

Angelamc11 wrote:

HampshireHog wrote:

So why did you book a connection with only 60 mins?

I didn’t plan to respond to this post, but considering I am extra cheerful this morning after making my way in the rain, wind, cold and darkness to T5 at 4.30 am, I’ll give it a go.

Obviously, I was hoping to miss the connection and spend two nights away from my family, bored and lonely at a LHR hotel. I’m a huge fan of enforced solitude. There’s nothing quite like 3 days of plane food, airport food and hotel food to get the gastric juices flowing. But of course, the food might be free, which of course makes it taste sweeter. Oh and did I mention how much I love getting up in the middle of the night to travel in miserable weather? I guess the prospect of flying to and from ATH in one day was just irresistible. I can’t wait to experience how that feels. Meanwhile I’ve the joys of rearranging work plans, explaining why I can’t babysit my lovely niece tomorrow, letting people down and facing a backlog of work when I get home.

The answer to your very helpful question, has nothing to do with work schedules, costs or previous experience of these connections. That would be too obvious.

Thanks for your contribution. Apologies if my post is a bit sharp, but I’m feeling inordinately grumpy and unhappy this morning. Apologies to everyone else, I don’t normally vent.

I didn’t mean to come over as unkind but your unfortunate experience should be a lesson for all that very tight connections at the minimum connection times do frequently go wrong, you’ve clearly been lucky before now. You took a calculated risk and sadly it didn’t come off.

[JDB]

@angelamc11 – in answer to the direct question, when there is a compound delay (and actually most are) the ‘reason’ is somewhere between the most significant and the most proximate. In your case, the first touch down was at 16.28 so the flight was then on schedule after an earlier seven minute hold (that most aircraft were having to observe owing to the ATC reduced flow). The second touch down was at 16.41 so BA can legitimately say ATC/aborted landing added 20 minutes to the flight that only arrived 16 minutes late. They obviously won’t be paying anything to passengers ending their journey in LHR but per Mr MacK you might just get lucky on the basis of your delayed arrival in Athens, perhaps assisted by your status. If you litigated at CEDR or MCOL you would almost certainly lose so it’s a case of someone at BA not noticing or giving you a free pass.

The other aspect of compound delays is that the Court of Appeal has determined that these 261 cases are a sort of quick ‘summary’ decision with fixed/liquidated compensation so the Court is not expected to and should not conduct a granular examination of each case and look at whether BA should have started boarding earlier, shouldn’t have bussed pax, might have made the earlier slot if pax had been seated earlier etc. They just go with the big element(s) and decide whether that was or wasn’t in the airline’s control. It’s just not proportionate to go through all the ifs and buts.

[Angelamc11]

Thank you, that was the response I was hoping for.

My query in relation to outbound and inbound on UK261, relates to the fact when outbound and inbound dates are only a day apart, and an outbound delay means your inbound is also delayed as a knock on effect, how does this factor when claiming compensation? While this question may appear as emerging from greed, it’s actually curiosity and a learning opportunity.

In fairness I’d happily pay £350 to avoid 4.30 am trips to the airport, and in fact, I do pay much more in regularly choosing afternoon flight times. The fact that I need to leave tomorrow morning at a similar time to get home is simply unavoidable, just like this morning. That doesn’t stop me feeling cross about it though.

[JDB]

Angelamc11 wrote:

Thank you, that was the response I was hoping for.

My query in relation to outbound and inbound on UK261, relates to the fact when outbound and inbound dates are only a day apart, and an outbound delay means your inbound is also delayed as a knock on effect, how does this factor when claiming compensation? While this question may appear as emerging from greed, it’s actually curiosity and a learning opportunity.

In fairness I’d happily pay £350 to avoid 4.30 am trips to the airport, and in fact, I do pay much more in regularly choosing afternoon flight times. The fact that I need to leave tomorrow morning at a similar time to get home is simply unavoidable, just like this morning. That doesn’t stop me feeling cross about it though.

For the purposes of compensation, there is no relationship between your outbound and inbound flights, so no ‘knock on’ but your new return flights will carry their own UK261 rights in the event they were delayed or cancelled.

[Angelamc11]

Again thank you all for taking the time to respond. These latter replies are very helpful and informative. I’m now winging my way back to LHR, and at least this flight has WIFI unlike the morning flight.

I’m now enjoying a G&T, everything I needed to rearrange is done, business is complete, and I will hopefully will be home soon, barring potential cancellations and delays with tomorrow’s snow forecast.

A lesson has been learnt here with regards MCT, and I have gained further knowledge of UK261. As an educator, I can appreciate this as providing some of the positivity I need to balance out all the crappiness when plans go wrong.

[Angelamc11]

I didn’t mean to come over as unkind but your unfortunate experience should be a lesson for all that very tight connections at the minimum connection times do frequently go wrong, you’ve clearly been lucky before now. You took a calculated risk and sadly it didn’t come off.[/quote]

I also didn’t mean to come across as so scathing in my response. I normally would consider sarcasm as the lowest form of wit. However, it can also be an effective vent for frustration. I certainly felt somewhat better after that post lol. Risk was unfortunately not in my calculation on this occasion.

I do hope though your post can also be a lesson on avoiding confrontational and troll like questions. Probably best to be avoided when tensions and emotions are running high and someone is feeling like everything has gone to shit.

[ekposh]

I’d agree that 60 mins is tight here but for me this raises another concern. If the MCT is inappropriate then surely BA are mis-selling a product here.

On paper, a faster journey might be a better option and might sway an average person’s decision to fly BA vs KLM say.

Now I appreciate BA are taking a risk here for duty of care etc but if history shows 60 mins is a huge risk, then I’d argue BA shouldn’t be marketing this (or 75 or whatever).

Sadly the average traveller (which I assume is not the demographic on here) would have zero appreciation of what MCT is and what and isn’t appropriate and will fully rely on the fact that a product is sold and they’d expect (more often than not) for that product to be delivered. And maybe it is. I have no clue on metrics and numbers here, but judging by response it feels though most think 60/75 mins is a big risk.

[Froggee]

I’ve read this thread feeling a bit sad for @Angelamc11.

I’ve missed a fair few flights and a lot of connections in my life. After a particularly unfortunate one Captain Hindsight, masquerading as my very own father, asked why I didn’t give myself more of a buffer.

I asked how much longer I should give. He said I should be arriving at the airport an hour earlier. That would have wiped out 50 hours that year. And should I have longer connections Captain Hindsight? Oh yes, yes, yes. Another hour? Sure! That was another 20 hours or so gone.

Captain Hindsight started to see why I did things the way I did.

Stuff happens. My personal record was almost exactly 48 hours to go from my flat to halfway towards Singapore and back to my flat again. That time it wasn’t my fault and ironically if I hadn’t been so early at the the airport, nothing bad would have happened.

You have my full sympathy @Angelamc11

[strickers]

Captain Hindsight

https://youtu.be/gdbjw27QPJQ?si=3x3Q1qivuZKArsyH

[Angelamc11]

@froggee, thank you! Your sympathy is fully felt. The ATH back and forth in a day was as horrendous as expected. I feel like I’ve been voraciously shaken, tumbled dried and spat out the other end. Parts of me hurt that I didn’t know existed. Age kicking in I expect. I’m not used to 8 hours in one day on a plane without a bed. At least, not in the last decade. Feeling too long in the tooth for all this nonsense.

I’ve been on the go for longer than I can count, just landed in LHR and another 4.30 am start to look forward to in the morning. As a girl who loves her sleep, this is horrendous ☹️

@Strickers 😅😅

[Angelamc11]

As an update – because I have no one else to talk with, the room service lasagne at the Marriott Heathrow was scalding on the outside and frozen in the middle. What to do? I wouldn’t even expect BA to pay for this.

It’s a pity as I’m rather hungry. No dinner on the flight. I lost my original row 1 seat booked months ago, and ended up in row 8 tonight. Apparently only 3 roast beef were loaded and the remainder of dinner choices had seafood, of which I’m allergic too. Fun times!

[HampshireHog]

Angelamc11 wrote:

I didn’t mean to come over as unkind but your unfortunate experience should be a lesson for all that very tight connections at the minimum connection times do frequently go wrong, you’ve clearly been lucky before now. You took a calculated risk and sadly it didn’t come off.

I also didn’t mean to come across as so scathing in my response. I normally would consider sarcasm as the lowest form of wit. However, it can also be an effective vent for frustration. I certainly felt somewhat better after that post lol. Risk was unfortunately not in my calculation on this occasion.

I do hope though your post can also be a lesson on avoiding confrontational and troll like questions. Probably best to be avoided when tensions and emotions are running high and someone is feeling like everything has gone to shit.[/quote]
Mmm well I do rather take exception to your description of my original question. Your immediate response appeared to me to be evading any responsibility for the unfortunate situation you found yourself in? Hence my question.

[Angelamc11]

Well taking exception unnecessarily does appear to be your form.

[JDB]

@Angelamc11 – I hope you have now managed to get some proper food. I’m not sure if it was perhaps a throwaway comment re not expecting even BA to pay for the frozen lasagne, but BA isn’t required under 261 to pay for your hotel or food on your return journey. BA could elect to pay, perhaps because of status, but the statute only requires the airline to pay your ‘right to care’ costs for the directly affected journey which ended in Athens. The impact on your return journey which required you to overnight in London is a consequential loss.