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I think I’d MCOL each case separatelu naming BA pkus either AA or CX (ise tbeir UK address) as co-defendants.
That was both the potentially responsible parties are ‘in the room’ and the judge can decide.
You were Denied Boarding and owed £520 plus costs of any extra hotel night needed, meals for extra wait time at reasonable NCL local rates, plus transport to and from hotel. You can put a note that you were travelling with the named other person on the claim who was also Denied Boarding on the same flight and split the ground expenses.
I’m all agog to know the outcone of this 🙂
So you flew on BA but booked the tickets separately via the AA and CX websites? I think this is what has caused some confusion! My feeling is that because you were flying from the UK, 261 would apply in respect of denied boarding/delay but I’m wondering if your claim has completely confused BA and they don’t know how to respond! Also you probably need 2 separate claims.
The problem is that 261 doesn’t apply if the problem lies with CX/AA and the operating carrier, BA, isn’t at fault. You then you to make a different claim at MCOL.
@LadyLondon – it’s actually a bit of a nightmare bringing a case with co-defendants and this would be two cases each with two co-defendants. It isn’t really the role of the court to analyse who is responsible in this sort of case and if I were the innocent party, I would ask for costs.
So even though the flight departed from the U.K., if it’s not ticketed by the actual carrier then there’s no 261 protection? What about travel agent bookings?
So even though the flight departed from the U.K., if it’s not ticketed by the actual carrier then there’s no 261 protection? What about travel agent bookings?
You do have UK261 protection but only against the operating carrier, but for that to succeed the operating carrier must be responsible for the denied boarding, which isn’t necessarily the case here. AA/CX may be contractually responsible for failure to provide a valid e-ticket and even that relies on it being an English contract.
AA and CX didn’t have anything to do with the reissue. Although that could be as BA took control of the ticket then. But couldn’t they have taken control of it at check in and done what they did to put us on the flight the next day? When I went to the economy lane the lady managed to check one of us in and before she could check in the other the flight closed.
Looking at my ticket it was all BA flight numbers. No codeshares.
Would CEDR be easier?
So even though the flight departed from the U.K., if it’s not ticketed by the actual carrier then there’s no 261 protection? What about travel agent bookings?
If the agent was incompetent and the carrier knew nothing of your booking then unfortunately i’d imagine your sole dispute would be with the agent.
In the OPs case though it’s a hell of a coincidence that two different oneworld airlines failed to book onto the same BA itinerary. Also, BA did eventually check the passengers onto a later flight. This further implies BA had what they needed, but the error was with BA (it’s not proof of that, of course).
So @JDB how likely do you think it was that separately on 2 separate bookings AA and CX were both unable to correctly ticket the same flight, without a failure message on either of their systems apparently? and for that not to be the fault of BA in the way they made these seats available to be sold but not, apparently, correctly ticketable and without an error message ?
How likely is this when the only common factor across the 2 bookings is (1) BA and er… (2) same person booking both with their credit card
@MCO what did the airline or check in people say specifically had, or had had to be done so that you were permitted to fly on the following day?
What was the fix? Someone must have applied one.
So @JDB how likely do you think it was that separately on 2 separate bookings AA and CX were both unable to correctly ticket the same flight, without a failure message on either of their systems apparently? and for that not to be the fault of BA in the way they made these seats available to be sold but not, apparently, correctly ticketable and without an error message ?
How likely is this when the only common factor across the 2 bookings is (1) BA and er… (2) same person booking both with their credit card
I agree, and it’s what I said earlier, but that’s just not enough for MCOL. While it’s improbable that both airlines failed to ticket correctly, it’s also unlikely that BA would fail to transmit two valid e-tickets on separate bookings to Swissport.
AA and CX didn’t have anything to do with the reissue. Although that could be as BA took control of the ticket then. But couldn’t they have taken control of it at check in and done what they did to put us on the flight the next day? When I went to the economy lane the lady managed to check one of us in and before she could check in the other the flight closed.
Looking at my ticket it was all BA flight numbers. No codeshares.
Would CEDR be easier?
CEDR is an easier process, but isn’t really suited to a messy situation like this and it wouldn’t be difficult for BA to come up with a convincing defence. Also, AA doesn’t participate in any ADR in the UK, although CX does use CEDR.
I would actually write separately to both CX and AA saying that they failed correctly to issue an e-ticket so you were denied boarding by their agent/sub-agent in breach of the contract entered into on x date for which you are now seeking damages in the sum of £520. You will need to set out the story as neither airline may be aware of what happened. If they don’t pay within 14 days you will issue a claim in the County Court. At least you may find out what their side of the story is and whether they are pointing the finger at BA. I don’t know where the CX / AA tickets were booked/issued/paid but it that wasn’t in the UK, it may be an issue.
@MCO what did the airline or check in people say specifically had, or had had to be done so that you were permitted to fly on the following day?
What was the fix? Someone must have applied one.
After the guy who had been failing to check us in went to the boarding gate the check in lady checked one of us at the first attempt. While she was trying the second the flight closed. When she called her help desk to book us on the next flight I asked to speak them. My question was specifically what is wrong with the e-ticket and she couldn’t figure out why he couldn’t check us in. She tried looking for an issue but 2-3 mins later said everything is ok.
I am a FF and know the ins and out of tickets. So I questioned her to see what exactly was wrong. She couldn’t figure it out.
Now I know this is all he said, she said.
CX issued my ticket and took payment from HK and AA was from London.
I was thinking to take BA to court and see what they have to say. Worst case I loose the £80 MCOL fee for one pax.
If they say it wasn’t their fault due to certain ticket issues then I have proof against the other airline. Thoughts?
@MCO you need to decide what to do but personally, I think taking anyone to court on a whim, just to see what they say is madness. If BA’s defence is successful, which is a fair prospect, it still proves nothing vs the other parties. The cost would be £70 + £85 hearing fee unless BA settles. If I were BA and received this claim, I would be asking for my costs. I certainly wouldn’t issue any claims before writing to AA/CX and seeing what they say.
thanks @JDB
@LadyLondon what are your thoughts on this?
To answer your question MCO I’m a different style of person to JDB. And JDB does have indepth knowledge as compared to my own just working knowledge and passion for fairness especially against big companies that don’t seem to be treating their consumers right.
Personally I’d get both CX and AA to each confirm in writing that they ticketed correctly and that no issue with your tickets was brought to their attention either during ticketing nor after.
Then I would add that statement from each into the CEDR or MCOL documents. Did you send BA an LBA? If you haven’t yet I’d send those confirmations to them with the LBA.
Technically if the ground agent at NCL was able to check 1 of you in, then that 1 was strictly speaking not denied boarding. However I wouldn’t hurry to mention this, I’d proceeed with the claim, but it did occur to me this technicality might trip you up.
I’d probably be willing to go MCOL on this even though it costs – but perhaps CEDR with just BA, submitting both at the same time, with the respective confirmations form AA and CX in the documents submitted, could be considered.
A minor note — not that this has ever happened to me — but I’ve often traveled with kids/family/friends on different bookings due to mix of cash, avois, on business, 2-4-1s, different FF programmes etc etc. The “drill” before check in is always if there is ever an issue with one booking everyone else boards. Or if we get split due to cancellation/aircraft swap, just suck it up and travel apart. It’s never happened, but we always prepared for this including briefing the children.
I would not peruse anything in court respect of the passenger who could have boarded but didn’t. However, it still seems very likely to me BA fouled up and I’d be kicking up one hell of a stink with them unless they could satisfy me that AA/CX didn’t provide them with what they needed.
The fact BA have not responded does not mean they will not pay up. I have waited a very long time for compensation from BA, with no communication for months, and then out of the blue received it. Perhaps as @LL suggests go back to the ticketing airlines to confirm their side of the story, and, armed with that, follow up with another letter to BA.
Will go back to AA and CX and see what they have to say. Thank you everyone.
I wouldn’t be asking CX and AA to confirm whether they issued the tickets correctly – they will just say yes and that takes the matter no further.
While it seems improbable that there was an error by both airlines, the issuance of e-tickets by third party airlines and transmission to the operating carrier via SITA is so standardised that one wouldn’t expect BA could mess it up.
I would put it to each airline that they failed to provide BA with correctly issue / valid e-tickets and you were consequently denied boarding for the first flight in your itinerary for which you are seeking compensation in the sum of £520, sum reflecting the UK261 liquidated damages for denied boarding, caused by their breach of contract. In any event, you should ask for a copy of the e-ticket from each of them.
BA fights off these claims all the time whereas the other two will see far fewer claims so may cooperate more, but you need to set out your claim very precisely and make it quite clear you mean business.
I wouldn’t do anything vs BA until you have proper responses from the other two, but realistically, if they both say they did everything perfectly it doesn’t really prove anything vis a vis BA.
I think we’re all thinking the same here.
CX and AA will of course cover their a$$es respectively. They will immediately confirm they issued the ticket correctly and there was no issue at all with it at any time. Whether they will put it in writing, though, is another thing. They may not feel they have to get involved. So JDB’s wording gives you a chance to make them consider cooperating :-).
Of course even getting a statement from each of the two airlines is not conclusive but it certainly should narrow the gap of believability as to where the failure to check you in lay. It all helps.
That, and the ‘technicality’ means I’m a lot more open to CEDR rather than MCOL than I usually am. CEDR being about what is reasonable – so hopefully faced with 2 other large airlines each saying they issued the ticket correctly, what is reasonable might prevail which is that the issue, even if it can’t exactly be nailed down, was in the checkin part of the process for which BA is responsible as operating airline.
You could also have lost half your money upfront at MCOL on the technicality so if you do get documentation from CX and AA and then do an LBA (I’d give them 21 days in the letter and actually give 35 before going to CEDR).. if the technicality does come up then obvs you’d settle for half if offered.
How anout a data subject access request to both airlines? No need to provide a motive; just ask for all personal data held. If a ticket was issued under your name, it’ll be in the disclosure they nake to you. If not, then you’d have good reason to presume you were never ticketed. Which in any future legal efforts will stand to you – as if they subsequently produce a record of ticketing then they failed to adequately respond to your DSAR. I don’t see a downside. I know JDB is not a fan of DSARs. I don’t think they should be weaponised, and used just to cause inconvenience. But in this case it would allow you to quietly gather your info.
I might be missing something here, but under UK law you have a contract with the provider/seller. So sue on the basis they didn’t provide the product/service contractually agreed.
I might be missing something here, but under UK law you have a contract with the provider/seller. So sue on the basis they didn’t provide the product/service contractually agreed.
Yes, that’s what has been said here by most people but in this situation we don’t know who has failed to provide the service which means we don’t know if the case is a breach of contract or UK261 denied boarding (an easier case in principle) and one of the parties may not even be within the jurisdiction of an English court.
What could have been wrong with the etickets? They had tickets numbers and the person who booked me on the flight the next day did mention that she couldn’t see anything wrong with them.
Also if there was an issue wouldn’t BA have told me to take it up with the issuing airline rather than put me on the flight the next day? Rather complicated one I agree. I have sent the letter before action a month back and will approacch the two airlines to see what they have to say before doing CEDR.
@MCO – there could be lots of things wrong with the e-tickets and, one way or another, Swissport didn’t receive a valid ticket in Altea/Amadeus that allowed them to check-in the booking they could see and whether the fault for that lies with the ticketing airlines or some glitch at BA is impossible to say. Whatever was wrong, it appears that BA needed to do some reformatting of the ticket(s) which then allowed Swissport to take the coupon.
In a complicated situation like this I think it would be worth asking for advice on the FT 261 thread https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/2146208-2024-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-uk261.html as, apart from anything else, there are people on there who might have more of an idea how this actually happened.
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