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I had an Amex for 23 years.
Centurion for 21.
Closed it all.
Mastercard is just as good
I feel so much more relaxed. I get cashback.
Don’t chase Amex. They have lost the plot
That’s quite a change, from Centurion to no Amex. A particular event/issue, or just a considered decision?
I have to say that with no SUB to chase, the avios Barclaycard makes for a great card on its own… With curve in front if abroad.. I kind of get it!
Well, I don’t know if the original post is true but it is distinctly possible as the Amex UK card line up is quite odd which is why they aren’t performing too well here, in part because they have tried slavishly to follow the US model in the very different UK market.
The top three paid cards are Platinum, Gold and BAPP:-
The BAPP is the simplest card offering and the only one with a USP, with the companion voucher being generally worth more than all the Platinum benefits added together, plus it earns 1.5x on almost everything or 3x at BA.
Platinum is “designed to heighten your travels” yet offers lower earning on travel than its junior Gold which offers 2x on airline spend (3x on foreign airline spend) and 2x on foreign spend plus an extra 0.5x at each £5k spend threshold. Platinum does offer family insurance but the policy is appallingly structured and worded (hence the endless questions) and has many weaknesses. It also excludes a third of the population and let everyone down re Covid cover which lost many cardholders. FHR is easily replicated via many channels and the hotel loyalty benefits are not difficult to equal or better by the general public and are only for mass market chains (and not even Hyatt which is better than those offered) – there’s nothing higher end eg for Mandarin, Peninsula, Belmond, FSHR, Dorchester, Como etc. From a marketing perspective, it’s just much too complicated and it no longer has any vaguely premium cachet; now setting the minimum income at just £35k is bonkers, but may be better than having all the students who have been running about with it recently enjoying the cash type benefits as promoted on various sites. It will be interesting to see if Amex does radically rethink the Platinum product in the UK or just continues to pay people to take it off their hands and/or hold it.
Gold, for most, is the next best value after BAPP and has the merit of simplicity that ought to work for most travellers for whom it is easily the highest earning card in the Amex portfolio.
Barclaycard has changed the landscape such that with the Plus card it’s much easier to use that after earning the BAPP companion voucher which can now also be better timed. Barclaycard is much more straightforward and treats everyone equally whereas Amex rewards the churners and players far more than the loyal cardholders who play with a straight bat.
I had an Amex for 23 years.
Centurion for 21.
Closed it all.
Mastercard is just as good
I feel so much more relaxed. I get cashback.
Don’t chase Amex. They have lost the plot
I read this as a Haiku. Was oddly pleasing.
Yep. There may be something in this…a simpler life with no stress by owning one rewards card that is excepted everywhere, no overspending chasing bonuses and having a lighter wallet. Good on you @davidl for kicking the filthy Amex habit! 👏
I think he peaked too early getting Centurion after just a couple of years.
Barclaycard has changed the landscape such that with the Plus card it’s much easier to use that after earning the BAPP companion voucher which can now also be better timed. Barclaycard is much more straightforward and treats everyone equally whereas Amex rewards the churners and players far more than the loyal cardholders who play with a straight bat.
Which begs the question why would someone stay with them, paying the fees and the FX charges when they frequently highlight how poorly Amex treat them in comparison to chancers exploiting every opportunity.
Barclaycard has changed the landscape such that with the Plus card it’s much easier to use that after earning the BAPP companion voucher which can now also be better timed. Barclaycard is much more straightforward and treats everyone equally whereas Amex rewards the churners and players far more than the loyal cardholders who play with a straight bat.
Which begs the question why would someone stay with them, paying the fees and the FX charges when they frequently highlight how poorly Amex treat them in comparison to chancers exploiting every opportunity.
I’m not sure if that’s aimed at me, but it is a problem for Amex that they aren’t doing very well in the UK. If they improved their flagship product and thought more about incentivising existing customers, their acquisition/retention costs would fall and billings would rise. As for why anyone might stay with them, they have some good aspects that suit and they are gradually responding to pressure to discourage the grifters, but are still losing ‘share of wallet’ something that could easily be reversed.
Well, I don’t know if the original poetic post is true but it is distinctly possible as the Amex UK card line up is quite odd which is why they aren’t performing too well here, in part because they have slavishly tried to follow the US model in the very different UK market.
Of the top three paid UK cards Platinum, Gold and BAPP:-
The BAPP is the simplest card offering and the only one with a USP, with the companion voucher being generally worth more than all the Platinum benefits added together, plus it earns 1.5x on almost everything or 3x at BA.
Platinum is “designed to heighten your travels” yet offers lower earning on travel than its junior Gold which offers 2x on airline spend (3x on foreign airline spend) and 2x on foreign spend plus an extra 0.5x at each £5k spend threshold. Platinum does offer family insurance but the policy is appallingly structured and worded (hence the endless questions) and has many weaknesses. It also excludes a third of the population and let everyone down re Covid cover which lost many cardholders. FHR is easily replicated via many channels and the hotel loyalty benefits are not difficult to equal or better by the general public and are only for mass market chains (and not even Hyatt which is better than those offered) – there’s nothing higher end eg for Mandarin, Peninsula, Belmond, FSHR, Dorchester, Como etc. Lounges are offered to premium passengers by airlines and PP seems fairly consistently disappointing.
From a marketing perspective, Platinum has no USP and is just much too complicated – there is no elevator pitch possibility. It also no longer has any vaguely premium cachet (and possibly some negative perceptions) ; the recent decision to set the minimum income at just £35k is bonkers, but may be better than having all the students who have running about with it recently enjoying the cash type benefits as promoted on various sites. It will be interesting to see if Amex does radically rethink the Platinum product in the UK or just continues to pay people to take it off their hands and/or hold it.
Gold is the next best value after BAPP and has the merit of simplicity that ought to work for most serious travellers for whom it is easily the highest earning card in the Amex portfolio and in the UK overall.
And now Amex are preventing decent retirees from applying for their very useful BAPP and Plat cards. Who literally spend millions in the U.K. on Amex. That’s pretty shortsighted IMV. Hope they get enough calls in objecting when card applications are declined. People who have happily paid their fees, used the benefits, the 241, and are NOT habitual churners, now can’t get a decent Amex card. As l said, some of us don’t quite hit the 35k income alone, but together, do, but are now excluded.
Amex cs have usually been very good at solutions. Apart from that one Marriott credit which took months to sort. Admittedly, you do have to get Brighton for a major issue.
It will be interesting to see how this new rule pans out.
They had a headline article in The Times on Saturday about only making zillions!@polly, I agree! And not only are they excluding people with a healthy amount of disposable income and little debt, as far as I can see, someone with a higher income on paper could still have multiple cards. So I’m excluded from BAPP and Platinum, buy my OH could hold both, despite our household income being the same for both of us.
But @davidl makes a good point as well. On reflection, we can manage with one 241 per year and direct the extra spending to the Virgin MC as those points are more useful for us northerners anyway. I suspect Amex may have a rethink eventually as I feel they might have scored something of an own goal.
@JDB’s post resonates with me. Player 2 and I used to have 4 Amex cards between us (2xBA premium and 2x Plat). In Covid I knew I wouldn’t travel so downgraded both plats to Gold and cancelled BA Amex. Happy with that decision and fees saved. We use the Deliveroo benefit 1-2 times a month. Lounge access isn’t always available in London but not a big deal. Once things became ok travel wise player 2 applied for BA prep and it was referred (their income less than mine) but was eventually approved but decided from then she would keep that card at all times and I would apply when we travel more (just become parents) so we just have the 1 BA plat between us for now. Arguably we don’t need 2 golds but have made use of offers etc such that fees aren’t so bad especially since the 2.5k bonus points came into play. Just need to be careful to maximise this as we spend between both cards.
@Northern Lass – the problem is that household income doesn’t afford Amex any legal protection for bad debts which rose from US$377m in the first half of 2022 to US$2.253bn in H1 2023. Spouses walk away from each others’ debts all the time.
I don’t think setting the minimum income levels will affect their business at all. As I and many others on HfP have been saying for more than a year now, we are entering into a different financial era and people need to stick to the cards they like and not expect to be accepted for new ones as they might have been ten years ago.
How many of the retirees not meeting minimum income requirements are only applying for cards in retirement because it’s part of a long term churning strategy.
I think some of the suggestion that Amex’s business model is somehow failing wealthy retirees is more about being caught out in their gaming of Amex by circumstances.
This is an interesting one and I can get the appeal of doing so, equally the first thought I would have is the idea of being tied to Barclays and Avios is not somewhere I would particularly wish to be. All my points in Avios just seems a waste to me, although the addition of Qatar certainly makes it more appealing overall.
I am currently holding more Amex products than I would like and it is essentially like having a pack of cards with me at times, but I don’t chase every last little thing down and overall apart from maybe 30 minutes in a morning with my coffee dont think about it after that so its mentally quite light for me, but others look at me as if I am insane!
The amex offers are actually what make the cards worthwhile for me, but that maybe because generally they align with what I wish to do and places I wish to go, in the past couple of years they will have saved me easily a 5 figure number, even accounting for fees paid. I however see little value in all the things they market the Amex cards about being for and it is a mess of a stratergy. I continue my debate on holding the Cent card, but what I have found is if there is an issue they are very generous in resolving it, so actually the odd issue can be a good thing in life lol!
So in some ways I am jealous of the Op to be able to feel he isn’t missing out, but actually I quite enjoy the making the most of it and being able to amass a mixture of points currencies and have flexibility means to be the value is in the options. I will however be cancelling some of the cards now the pro rata fee is coming in as frankly that reduces my options and its a tie in I am not willing to make.
How many of the retirees not meeting minimum income requirements are only applying for cards in retirement because it’s part of a long term churning strategy.
I think some of the suggestion that Amex’s business model is somehow failing wealthy retirees is more about being caught out in their gaming of Amex by circumstances.
Exactly this. If people already hold the card(s) then they won’t lose them just because they no longer hit the minimum earning requirements as that applies to new applications only. Those that get refused on new applications suggests they have ( in the main) been churning and are now no longer able to successfully apply. I don’t understand this mentality of people that think Amex owes them something. They are a business, with an aim to make profit, it’s why they exist. If people don’t like it then take your business elsewhere, I don’t think Amex will really care tbh…
I say all of the above as a semi churner… but when the door is shut you can’t complain
How many of the retirees not meeting minimum income requirements are only applying for cards in retirement because it’s part of a long term churning strategy.
I think some of the suggestion that Amex’s business model is somehow failing wealthy retirees is more about being caught out in their gaming of Amex by circumstances.
I’m glad you said it! The statements are sufficiently internally inconsistent to suggest they have been churning more than Kerrygold.
How many of the retirees not meeting minimum income requirements are only applying for cards in retirement because it’s part of a long term churning strategy.
I think some of the suggestion that Amex’s business model is somehow failing wealthy retirees is more about being caught out in their gaming of Amex by circumstances.
I’m glad you said it! The statements are sufficiently internally inconsistent to suggest they have been churning more than Kerrygold.
It’s not a moral judgement, I’ve done my share of cancelling and reapplying. But when a company you’ve exploited/gamed closes that door, either directly or as a consequence of another change, you can’t suddenly decide to play the victim card.
It’s not a moral judgement, I’ve done my share of cancelling and reapplying. But when a company you’ve exploited/gamed closes that door, either directly or as a consequence of another change, you can’t suddenly decide to play the victim card.[/quote]
Exactly, you accept you had a good run and take it on the chin!
Retirees aren’t exactly the only people here! It’s not “playing the victim card” to point out that Amex will be losing spend from previous customers, especially those who are less affected by the current financial climate of high interest rates. We’ll see what the future brings, anyway.
@JDB, if household income is so inconsequential, why on earth does Amex ask about it?I’m currently on a 2 year break from AMEX and just have HSBC WE and Barclaycard Hilton sat underneath Curve.
I get the OP sentiments – it’s a lot easier to deal with, cross-checking the statements is now minimal effort and everything in the one place, the curve app. I’m a metal customer, so I’m getting 1% cashback at my 6 nominated retailers in addition to the HSBC and Hilton points.
Going forward I’ll probably just get the BAPP and keep it, but churning and working out the art of the possible is beyond complicated and too much effort.
And I’m not sure if its just me, but AMEX customer services has deterioated to all time low levels in the last twelve months or so. An organisation that IMO were the benchmark of great service just seem to be as bad as all other financial institutions now.
@JDB
That was a very good analysis. My BAPP, l will keep on anyway, and hope my OH gets his approved under these ridiculous new 35k limit.@Northern Lass – it’s complicated, but the basic reason is that Amex is a marketing machine that is desperate to sell cards to keep the plates spinning in a way other UK banks aren’t. As a result, in the good times Amex took some comfort (and that’s all it is) from the fact there was money around in the household that could justify issuing a card that was otherwise difficult to justify. On this basis, they issued a lot of cards to people that traditional providers rejected; for many Amex was bizarrely the easiest to obtain. This comes about because while financial products are governed by a Rules, Guidance and Outcomes based Handbook, Principles are key and allow institutions to make independent decisions on many aspects of their business as long as they can justify it to the FCA if challenged.
Amex doesn’t use a traditional credit model, offers referrals, retentions and up to now pro-rata refunds in a way that other providers find rather incomprehensible. They are also very lax on their use of cards and interpretation of what constitutes a business. All of these things set Amex apart and has thus attracted customers thus attracted customers but also more regulatory scrutiny, heightened by tougher economic times. Newly introduced rules are plating their part as well.
Household income shouldn’t form part of a credit decision unless it’s for a joint product and also risks double counting. Amex is now focusing on each individual’s finances. It fits in with the separate taxation of spouses since 1990, more recent separate spousal New State Pension provision and more generally the independence of women so I’m surprised you aren’t more supportive.
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